TO vs Philly

[hobie]

3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Brooks wasn't drafted his first year of eligibility. He wasn't drafted his second year of eligibility despite putting up good #s. His skating is mediocre at best. 

 

Frost went in the 1st round his first time around...even though he was one of the youngest players in his draft class.. Also one of if not THE fastest skater in the draft.  Frost, at 18, is also already bigger than Brooks at 21. That's not as big a factor these days, but its still a factor.

 

I'm pretty confident if Brooks was offered to Hextall for Frost, Hextall would probably die laughing. 

 

And here's the rub, TO's top scout has had an inclination towards picking overage or missed players in the draft on their 1st or 2nd years after they were initially available for drafting. The logic behind this was/is market place inefficiencies like why quality UFAs are available even tho they could've been drafted, players like Bozak and Dekeyser.

 

Mark Hunter was the main scout for the London Knights prior to joining TO so it has been widely assumed that he has incredible talent evaluation skills. Brooks was a 4th rounder chosen 92nd overall in '16.

 

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

It why you have to do your homework and trust your scouts.

 

What you did in juniors is just part of the evaluation process along with the combine then getting to know the player and then deducing weather he fits the type of player you want and then grading a player, coming up with a draft board and going by that.

 

Konecny and Frost are two great exampled of guys who other team might not have graded highly but Hextall thought a lot of them and went out and took them.

 

Sometimes you hit sometimes you miss.

 

I personally think he hit on both.

 

But still to soon to tell really.

 

Yes, a team like Columbus picked high in the draft for what 20 years yet remained near the bottom of the NHL until recently along with many other teams, the draft is only one tool and without proper utilization of the others in harmony with the goal of becoming better can result in tunnel vision. TO picked up a UFA last year, again undrafted, and he's now a part of TO's top 4 d-men. 

 

The draft is a long slow process, an especially imprecise way to build a team so realizing that choices are currency rather than that which makes your team for sure better frees the powers that be to work towards the ultimate goal. 

 

     

[OccamsRazor]

40 minutes ago, hobie said:

Yes, a team like Columbus picked high in the draft for what 20 years yet remained near the bottom of the NHL until recently along with many other teams, the draft is only one tool and without proper utilization of the others in harmony with the goal of becoming better can result in tunnel vision. TO picked up a UFA last year, again undrafted, and he's now a part of TO's top 4 d-men. 

 

The draft is a long slow process, an especially imprecise way to build a team so realizing that choices are currency rather than that which makes your team for sure better frees the powers that be to work towards the ultimate goal. 

 

Yes in the salary cap era it takes the draft and free agency.

 

The core/foundation should be built through the draft and free agency used to plug holes temporarily till a prospect come come in and fill.

 

It's not an exact science.

 

But the draft was Bobby Clarke's weak link. He was use to the old way of just buying who he thought was best.

 

Draft picks take to long and he didn't have the time for that. It didn't work.

 

Homer came a long and did slightly better but still it didn't work.

 

Not sure if Ron's way will work.

 

He believes in the draft and has spent resources developing the farm system.

 

We'll see soon the fruits of his labor.

 

Fingers crossed.

[flyercanuck]

55 minutes ago, hobie said:

 

And here's the rub, TO's top scout has had an inclination towards picking overage or missed players in the draft on their 1st or 2nd years after they were initially available for drafting. The logic behind this was/is market place inefficiencies like why quality UFAs are available even tho they could've been drafted, players like Bozak and Dekeyser.

 

Mark Hunter was the main scout for the London Knights prior to joining TO so it has been widely assumed that he has incredible talent evaluation skills. Brooks was a 4th rounder chosen 92nd overall in '16.

 

 Brooks may well end up being a nice pick. But Frost, as an 18 year old, is a far superior prospect. 

 

I live in Barrie...I'm well aware of the Hunters.

 

55 minutes ago, hobie said:

 

 

Yes, a team like Columbus picked high in the draft for what 20 years yet remained near the bottom of the NHL until recently along with many other teams, the draft is only one tool and without proper utilization of the others in harmony with the goal of becoming better can result in tunnel vision. TO picked up a UFA last year, again undrafted, and he's now a part of TO's top 4 d-men. 

 

 Where would Toronto be without Mathews/Marner/Nylander and Rielly? There's your top 4 scorers, all draft picks. Throw in Kadri who's your 6th leading scorer. 

 

 Philly picked Provorov 7th overall, and Ghost they got with a 3rd rounder. I wouldn't trade the pair of them for the entire Leaf defence. Zaitsev is a nice signing ...(the Flyers had tried to sign him for 2 years prior to him signing with the Leafs)

55 minutes ago, hobie said:

 

The draft is a long slow process, an especially imprecise way to build a team so realizing that choices are currency rather than that which makes your team for sure better frees the powers that be to work towards the ultimate goal. 

 

     

 

Yes, and for every draft pick traded for a more developed player that worked out long term for a team, there's a 2 high picks for bust trending Griffen Reinhart trade, where the 1st pick ends up being Mathew Barzal...or a Tom Kurvers for a 1st that ends up being Scott Neidermeyer.

 

 Whether picks are actually used in the draft, or as currency to bring in immediate impact, they're only as good as your gm. And if your gms an idiot....

[hobie]

Niedermeyer was a low blow.

 

And Hunter, he was an excellent GM for London where he could draft smaller players and expect them to grow but drafting 18 year olds at 5'8" and 150 to 160 lbs and expecting them to grow into a better size more suited to the NHL eventually might be a stretch, his first draft for TO he took mostly small players with outstanding scoring stats. Usually smaller players need to be exceptional or they're a bust.

 

TO grabbed Borgman this last summer and at 21 he looks like he's a worthy top 6 d-man, a lower 1st rounder in most drafts at worst.

 

Shiny new toys from drafts are important but it's also the other avenues that need to be thoroughly tended.

[flyercanuck]

54 minutes ago, hobie said:

Niedermeyer was a low blow.

 

And Hunter, he was an excellent GM for London where he could draft smaller players and expect them to grow but drafting 18 year olds at 5'8" and 150 to 160 lbs and expecting them to grow into a better size more suited to the NHL eventually might be a stretch, his first draft for TO he took mostly small players with outstanding scoring stats. Usually smaller players need to be exceptional or they're a bust.

 

TO grabbed Borgman this last summer and at 21 he looks like he's a worthy top 6 d-man, a lower 1st rounder in most drafts at worst.

 

Shiny new toys from drafts are important but it's also the other avenues that need to be thoroughly tended.

 

Sorry for the not-so-fond Kurvers memory...just a reminder that dealing picks for already made vets don't always work out as planned. Everyones team has a few painful memories.

 

I'm a Colts fan in the O...and I despise the Hunters (a respectful hate).

 

I think Toronto finally has solid management going on there...and a big part of that was them hanging on to, and using wisely... their picks.