I know we Hate MacDonald, but...

[vis]

1 hour ago, murraycraven said:

what if hart is not what we think he is... what if frost is not what we think he is, etc...   a large part of this plan is built around the current "what if" scenario(s) so none of us know how this is going to pan out.   

I'm most worried about Sanheim, Myers and Morin.  So far, Sanheim has been very uneven and pretty bad in his own end.  Myers is still young and developing, and that's fine.  I did think he'd make a stronger push to make the NHL roster, but it was apparent he's not ready.  I do think this is a big year for him in the AHL.  Imo, he needs to be a top d-man in that league and stay healthy.  Who knows what's up with Morin.  He's got a long road ahead of him.

 

1 hour ago, murraycraven said:

 

I do like that we are building from within but there is a long way to go imo.  And I agree that we are stil 3-4 years away from being an actual contender *if* things pan out like we hope.   

That's a pretty big if.  I think Hextall needs to do something at the NHL level (trade; signing) at some point.  Even if that means trading away a prospect.

 

1 hour ago, murraycraven said:

then there is Hak

When is he on the hot seat?

[brelic]

1 hour ago, vis said:

But look at what has stayed the same: the "core,"  coaching and GM.  That's where the issues are, imo.  I don't think it's necessarily the swapping of inept vets for unseasoned rookies.  Generally, I do think the roster has improved since 14/15.  But yet the results kind of look the same (on the ice, anyway).  I'll admit: it's very early and this team could go on a very good run.  I think a lot of pundits look at the top 6 and see them as a one of the top three teams in the Metro.

 

I still think this team can be a top 3 team in the Metro - we're 5 games in. And my prediction during the preseason was that we would split with Vegas, beat the Avs and Sens, lose to the Sharks for a 3-2 record. We're 2-3. 

 

At the quarter mark last year, we were 8-8-4 (and 4 games into the 10 game losing streak). 

 

I'll wait until the 20 game mark to see what they look like this year. 

 

1 hour ago, vis said:

 

To me, being tough to play against means skating hard every shift, playing with pressure, backchecking, being physical when necessary, not wilting in the face of adversity and putting teams away (or not letting them back in the game) when you have the lead.  Oh, and playing without mistakes.

 

There are stretches when this team does that. And those teams that do it consistently are in the upper echelon, which does not yet include the Flyers. 

 

1 hour ago, vis said:

 

The Leafs are one team, but I was thinking more about the Devils.  That team, imo, was further away than the Flyers when they started their rebuild and they have turned things around quickly.  The built a good team with shrewd trades and signings and, yes, they got Hischier (and a few other prospects are panning out). 

 

That's clearly the Flyers' focus: smart, two-way players.  But you still need top-end talent to win games.

 

In which ways are the Devils ahead? They are 3-0 this year, sure. But that means about as much as the Flyers being 2-3 or the Sens being 3-2-1. Kinkaid has unsustainable numbers. 

 

So other than the hot start, where do you feel they are ahead of us? 

 

[murraycraven]

2 hours ago, vis said:

I'm most worried about Sanheim, Myers and Morin.  So far, Sanheim has been very uneven and pretty bad in his own end.  Myers is still young and developing, and that's fine.  I did think he'd make a stronger push to make the NHL roster, but it was apparent he's not ready.  I do think this is a big year for him in the AHL.  Imo, he needs to be a top d-man in that league and stay healthy.  Who knows what's up with Morin.  He's got a long road ahead of him.

 

That's a pretty big if.  I think Hextall needs to do something at the NHL level (trade; signing) at some point.  Even if that means trading away a prospect.

 

When is he on the hot seat?

 

I hope this is a make or break season for him...   I really do.

 

And as you said - there are a lot of "ifs" that are certainly in question when looking at this year and the near future.  When you look at this team there is a lot of promising youth in the pipeline but it is literally just that - promising.  Until they can make a contribution to the Flyers on a night in and night out basis we will all be holding our collective breath.   And when that time comes where will G and Jake be in their careers?  They are not getting any younger so hopefully some of these kids can bring a bunch of depth in the scoring department.  

 

I am high on Sanheim to be honest.   Myers I think will be a very good player as well... Morin, if he turns out to be a 4 type of dman I would be happy but he does have a long road in front of him.  Morin is an interesting case - highly touted internally by the Flyers but has faced injuries.  It seems there are dmen than are passing him so it will be interesting to see where he slots once he is healthy and ready to play.  

 

Obviously, there is no magic 8-ball when building or retooling.  Hextall has a plan and he is sticking to it for better or worse.   It all remains to be seen...  I am certainly glad that we have depth in the AHL and Jrs but that is no guarantee to in the future.  

 

I will say I do see more talent on the team since Hextall has taken over but there is also some dead weight still lingering - Ron brought in Weise, I am sure he had a partial say in AMac and then you have guys like the Coke Dealer who seemingly always finds a way into Hak's lineup.   

 

With all that said I am just watching games and trying to see where this is all going.  Do I like the pipeline?  Absolutely...  do i think they are anywhere near contending?  Absolutely not....  I still see them as a team sneaking into the playoffs and most likely losing in the first round.

[brelic]

58 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

I will say I do see more talent on the team since Hextall has taken over but there is also some dead weight still lingering - Ron brought in Weise, I am sure he had a partial say in AMac and then you have guys like the Coke Dealer who seemingly always finds a way into Hak's lineup.

 

I agree to a certain extent. Weise was not a bad idea in theory, but there was no reason to give him a 4 year contract other than market forces. He must have felt strongly enough about him. Chalk it up to a misread.

 

AMac, meh. Hextall may have been on board, but Homer offered the contract and bid against himself. Also, the only reason he even had to go looking for a defenseman is because Pronger was done and Timo was retiring. He had no long term plan, nothing in the pipeline. He backed himself into a corner, as was his MO, and looked to flex the Comcast bucks as his only team-building tool. 

 

Under Hextall, we've gone from being over the cap with zero wiggle room and no talent on the farm (last ranked farm squad at one point) to over $8M in cap space, and another $20M coming off the books this year (Lehtera, Simmonds, Raffl, Weal, Knight, Folin, Elliott, Pickard, and Neuvirth). Some will be resigned, some will be let go and replaced by cheaper home grown talent. 

 

For Lehtera, yeah, not a huge fan. But it did get us Frost and Farabee. And Lehtera has looked fine so far in 5 games. 

 

Bottom line, there is less deadweight now than when he took over. 

 

Right now - Lehtera, Weise, Weal?, AMac and Folin.

The team he inherited - Lecavalier, Umberger, VandeVelde, Rinaldo, Blair Jones, Cousins?, Manning, Schultz, Schenn, Grossmann, Colaicovo.

 

I like this team a lot better, and unlike the team back then, I can see a better future with a steady flow of new prospects - some will make it and most won't, but at least we HAVE them. 

 

Also, Hextall has said he's now focused on success at the NHL level, and getting JVR demonstrates that commitment. 

 

So things are getting there, slowly but surely!

 

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, brelic said:

The team he inherited - Lecavalier, Umberger, VandeVelde, Rinaldo, Blair Jones, Cousins?, Manning, Schultz, Schenn, Grossmann, Colaicovo.

 

I almost lost my lunch reading that...

[vis]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

 

I still think this team can be a top 3 team in the Metro - we're 5 games in.

I agree.  They should be a top 3 Metro team this year.

 

1 hour ago, brelic said:

I'll wait until the 20 game mark to see what they look like this year. 

Totally agree.  Some of my complaining in this thread is a bit of a knee jerk at this stage of the season.

 

1 hour ago, brelic said:

So other than the hot start, where do you feel they are ahead of us? 

It's not so much that they are ahead of us, but that I think the Devils were a worse team when Shero arrived and they have turned things around much quicker and, arguably, with a less talented roster.  Point is, I think Shero built a team that the coach has playing well in short order.  

[brelic]

30 minutes ago, vis said:

I agree.  They should be a top 3 Metro team this year.

 

Totally agree.  Some of my complaining in this thread is a bit of a knee jerk at this stage of the season.

 

I get it, though. There's just something about slow starts to periods, games, and seasons with this team. That was also a hallmark feature (bug?) of Hakstol's college teams. 

 

30 minutes ago, vis said:

 

It's not so much that they are ahead of us, but that I think the Devils were a worse team when Shero arrived and they have turned things around much quicker and, arguably, with a less talented roster.  Point is, I think Shero built a team that the coach has playing well in short order.  

 

I agree with that. Not sure what the major difference is - maybe coaching is truly what would make a difference for the Flyers. 

 

From this point forward, I'm on board with a Hak firing. Until this season, I was probably more patient than most, and was in wait-and-see mode. But now, this is his make or break. 

 

[RonJeremy]

I think Haag will end up being our most steady defensive guy behind Provy. Sanheim and Myers are still suspect in their own end. I just hope Morin can become a solid defensive guy.

[King Knut]

On 10/15/2018 at 8:43 PM, brelic said:

 

It was a rebuild that was (un)fortunate enough to remain competitive because of, like you say, a very talented few players. Theyre too good to be a true basement team. 

 

 

I do too. Like I said, I don’t think he’s THE guy. He’s the rebound coach

 

 

I think he will too. He’s still only 20, and just because he was #2 overall, it automatically comes with assumptions and expectations. Patrick is Patrick, and no one else, and he has his own development path. He’s probably too smart and too talented to be a bust or mediocre.

 

 

I do too, I really do. Like him as a player, I’m just not sold on his offensive upside matching his days in The SHL. But I really like him, and however he turns out, i think he belongs on this team. 

 

 

Exactly. That’s all I meant by my comment - it’s the current Phantoms that I see as middle to bottom six NHLers. Those other guys you mention have higher ceilings, I think. 

 

Oh, and who’s Stephen? Lol, a typo I’m sure

 

 

Is it the system? I’m asking honestly, because I don’t know at a deep level how modern hockey systems work. 

 

Hak had had consistent success at the NCAA level. Obviously, his system worked over many years, many roster turnovers. So he was doing something right. 

 

Now, obviously the NHL is several levels higher. There are probably more fully developed and refined systems and nuances, but at the end of the day, the number of truly distinct systems is surely limited to, what, a handful? Maybe a dozen? 

 

So if it’s system, why? Poor coaching? Poor personnel? Wrong personnel? 

 

 

 

Yeah, goofy auto correct on Strohme. Hard  to type on my phone with a squirmy Baby in the other hand

 

i agree reed with all you’re saying. 

 

The systems stuff is tricky. For the Flyers, in the neutral zone, they usually do okay, but last night for instance they got burned a few times and I’d have to watch the game again because I’m not sure if it has to do with the pinching D or the offense not covering or the 5th man  ring out of position or all of the above. 

 

Mostly their biggest problem is straight upnpkaying  playing defense in their own zone.  Doesn’t seem to matter if it’s even strength, PK or end of game with a goalie pulled.  They’re just wrinkle at regaining the puck and controlling the exit. 

 

To my my eyes this mostly has to do with the Defense  being out of position. It could also have to do with rebound control, but it doesn’t seem to matter who’s in net (this goes back to Mason IMHO and we saw what? 4 different goalies last year?)

 

the D is slow.   That’s what we hear, but every player looks slow when he’s trying to catch up to a skating player from a stationary position. 

 

I just don’t think they move enough in their own end and I don’t think they’re in the right spots to defend regardless of how they’re moving.

 

the best the defense was, was two years ago after Hak decided (openly ) to sacrifice offense to preserve goals against. And then we complained that we weren’t scoring and G and Jake were toast and Coots sucked. 

 

I really think it’s just a matter of positioning. 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

20 minutes ago, King Knut said:

I really think it’s just a matter of positioning. 

 

 

It is but it is the gaps too between the forwards and the defense is way to wide to skate and stick handle through. They have to tighten that up.

 

And one goal like last night comes down to situational awareness, one example on Ghost...he has to be aware of a guy getting off the ice and the quick transition to the guy getting on the ice....Dadonov jumped on and blew right in behind him wide open to receive the pass to fire it on goal....that just can't happen to your top D pair. It must improve if they want to get to the playoffs.

[murraycraven]

19 hours ago, brelic said:

Hextall may have been on board, but Homer offered the contract and bid against himself.

 

Agree....   I just dont see that we are all that close to being a contender.   We are still 2-4 years away and I feel like I have been saying that for the last 2-3 seasons now.   

 

As for your quote above the same thing can be said for Jake & Neuvy....