Yandle to be scratched v. Tronno

[aziz]

1 minute ago, FireDillabaugh said:

And when it comes to this current roster, there is A LOT of learning that needs to be taught by competent coaching.  To the forwards.  To the defensemen.  To the goaltenders. No doubt about it, and the correct word is absolutely TEACH.

just no.

 

ken hitchcock and scotty bowman had nothing at all to teach literally any player drafted by an NHL team about how to skate, how to shoot, how to pass.  I.e., "technique."  ken hitchcock never had any kind of career at all as a player (that I can find), and bowman was injured in juniors, never made it out of them.  neither had any particular gift in the tactical aspects of playing the game.  the "technique."  i promise you scotty bowman never took serge federov aside to help him with his hockey stops.  wtf man.  of course he didn't.  none of them do.

 

what they DID do was come up with strategic plans that worked.  and yes, they TAUGHT those plans to their teams.  so, in that, you are correct.  but that is a far far cry from "technique".  they come up with a forechecking strategy and teach it, a backchecking strategy and teach it, a PP and PK strategy and teach it.  The "teaching", as I said, takes 30 minutes in the dressing room with a white board, and 2 or 3 practice sessions.  at that point, it is "taught".  from there, they impress and enforce the coordination required to carry those strategies out.  that's where your second paragraph becomes exactly on the nose.  holding players accountable for carrying out their part of the plan.  that is what makes a good coach:  developing an effective strategy, communicating it to his team, and then enforcing its execution, and punishing failures to execute.

 

being a good coach has nothing at all to do with teaching "technique", and little to do with "teaching" generally.

 

"hey, guy that was drafted 2nd overall by an NHL team, I went un-drafted, and played 10 years in the IHL.  but let me show you how to shoot a puck, i know because I'm the coach."

 

lol

[aziz]

17 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I get what you're saying and with them needing to tank Yandle could have just played out the season won't matter anymore to me i'm not watching any more games.

 

his -39 would have reached -59 by seasons end.

 

yeah, just let him.  scratch random other-waste-of-a-roster-spot on the 4th line, slide him up there, and let him ride this as long as he can.  why would you not?

[ruxpin]

28 minutes ago, aziz said:

ken hitchcock never had any kind of career at all as a player

Other than golf with theMaker03.

 

Good to see you, and as always, great post

[aziz]

19 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

You just couldn't be more wrong here.  It's not opinion to be debated.  These are facts, and there is no debating facts.

 

LOL.  you aren't very good at this.  i remove my mantle of you as the reincarnation of the 2003 aziz.

 

obviously, a player that never accomplished anything as a player, and in many cases, were down right poor players, has little to teach elite players about how to play the game.  they can be good coaches, though.  you insist the title of "head coach" means they can speak to the elite about the minutiae of playing the game of hockey.  again, ken hitchcock never played a second of recorded competitive hockey.  and weighed 300lbs.  he came up coaching girls teams.  and was good at it.  and he was a good coach, during the era that allowed his philosophy to work.

 

none of that says they can't know how the game is played.  that they can't understand the flow of the game and devise ways to effectively deploy their team.  and build in that team the requisite understanding of and commitment to their plan.  in fact, that is the entire point of the job.  but they don't teach players the fundamental techniques of the game.  again:  most NHL coaches were never NHL players, or were mediocre ones at best.  you think they had skills in their back pockets during their failed careers that they only bring out once they become coaches????  you think joel quenneville had norris winner skills, but kept those techniques in his pocket so he could pass them on to his future coaching gigs?

 

so, you can have your fictitious archetype about professional sports coaches as ultimate sages of hockey wisdom, talent and technique, if you want, but that's all they are:  fictitious.  a general doesn't need to fire a rifle well, he needs to know how to deploy the people that fire rifles well.  a good general is not defined by teaching his line troops how to fire their weapons.  it's how he deploys those line troops.

 

but hey, have your disney version, i guess.  makes for a better movie.

Edited April 4, 2022 by aziz

[aziz]

16 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Other than golf with theMaker03.

HA!  i'd forgotten about that entirely.

 

omg, wonder what theMaker is up to.  is hitch still alive?

[JR Ewing]

1 hour ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Simply not the case.  A player never stops learning.  There's always more to learn to improve.  Even Gretzky admits that he was still learning things about the game during the '98-99 season. 

 

 

Carl Yastrzemski said that he only learned how to really hit when he turned about 40.

 

[ruxpin]

11 minutes ago, aziz said:

HA!  i'd forgotten about that entirely.

 

omg, wonder what theMaker is up to.  is hitch still alive?

You know they're married, right?

 

Lol yes on Hitch.

 

https://www.alamy.com/st-louis-blues-coach-ken-hitchcock-and-his-wife-corina-kelepouris-arrive-for-the-2012-nhl-awards-show-at-the-wynn-las-vegas-resort-in-las-vegas-nevada-june-20-2012-hitchcock-won-his-first-jack-adams-award-as-the-nhls-best-coach-reuterssteve-marcus-united-states-tags-sport-ice-hockey-image399792626.html

 

Cracks me up. I went looking for this and several of the articles had "NFL headcoach..."

Edited April 5, 2022 by ruxpin

[aziz]

6 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

Carl Yastrzemski said that he only learned how to really hit when he turned about 40.

 

there's always more to learn about any complicated system.  especially one that evolves over time.  the question here is can a failed hockey player, who lacked the essential skills to be notable in the sport as a player, pass on deep wisdom of those skills to an extremely highly skilled player as a coach?  and the obvious answer is "no".  yes, gretz learned more and more as he played through the years.  yes, carl (can't be bother to type that name out) kept learning.  they weren't learning from their coaches, though.  they were evolving their own experience into new understanding, based on said experiences.  that's the nature of the elite.  and they did not learn from some failed player that was now taking a salary as a coach.

[aziz]

4 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

You know they're married, right?

seriously?  all of the **** talk we threw turned out to be true?

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, aziz said:

seriously?  all of the **** talk we threw turned out to be true?

Yeah, I just added this link to the other post while you were replying

 

https://www.alamy.com/st-louis-blues-coach-ken-hitchcock-and-his-wife-corina-kelepouris-arrive-for-the-2012-nhl-awards-show-at-the-wynn-las-vegas-resort-in-las-vegas-nevada-june-20-2012-hitchcock-won-his-first-jack-adams-award-as-the-nhls-best-coach-reuterssteve-marcus-united-states-tags-sport-ice-hockey-image399792626.html

 

It's older now, but they're still married

Edited April 5, 2022 by ruxpin

[aziz]

3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

It's older now, but they're still married

 

i don't know what else to say, other than i am currently laughing too hard to come up with something to say

 

edit:  I can't remember when exactly she was around.  was it on this site, or philly.com?

 

if here:  Maker03, represent yourself!!!  we have things to talk about!

Edited April 5, 2022 by aziz

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, aziz said:

 

i don't know what else to say, other than i am currently laughing too hard to come up with something to say

 

 

I know, right? I laugh every time it comes up.  It's entertainment gold.

Edited April 5, 2022 by ruxpin

[OccamsRazor]

52 minutes ago, aziz said:

why would you not?

 

Unless you're trying to send a message or even piss someone off.

 

Shot across the bow for lack of a better term on my behalf.

 

 

Let's see what shakes out in the offseason. I hope more change is coming.

[ruxpin]

What's your lace count?

[ruxpin]

Anyone need a Lexus?

[ruxpin]

Does anyone think they'll find a skate that will work for Forsberg?

[aziz]

7 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

That General teaches the Privates and others to shoot when that General was a Sergeant.

 

here is where your lack of nuance shows.  few (any?) generals were ever sergeants.  NCOs tend to not become commissioned officers.  Leading the force does not require expertise in the nuances of skill required by said force.  it requires coordination at a level beyond how to aim.  the aiming is specifically left to the NCOs, the officers are interested in factors above that.  that's why there are PP and PK coaches.

 

again.  if you think a person that lacked the skills to become a successful NHL player themselves is in a position to instruct NHL players on the tactical details of how to play the game, you are in a fantasy land.  the elite players are playing, the failed player is the coach.  if the coach could not have a career as an elite player, why would they have the ability to impart elite skills on players by definition far superior to what they ever were?  why would they have not used those skills to be stars themselves?  were they slow playing their careers until they could coach?  lol.

 

i don't know where you get your concepts, but they are...thin, my friend.  insults won't really work with me, you are showing your rear end with each post.  but hey, keep them coming, this is good.  i may start posting again.  

[OccamsRazor]

25 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I know, right? I laugh every time it comes up.  It's entertainment gold.

 

Did Hitch marry a former ice skater?? Or hockey player??

[OccamsRazor]

11 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

What's your lace count?

 

Velcro

 

 

Old and lazy now...

[aziz]

5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Did Hitch marry a former ice skater?? Or hockey player??

a golfer, apparently.  who, like 20 years ago, came on whatever site we were using at the time, while he was the flyer's coach, and defended him to the hilt, against all comers.  she wouldn't say who she was, but someone tracked her down to a semi-pro golfer that had played some rounds with hitch?  i think?  anyway.  they got married, apparently.  and she has some explaining to do.

 

4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Velcro

 

 

Old and lazy now...

dude, my first goalie skates were riedell.  all white leather, no ballistic nylon nonsense.  miss those skates.  looked like i was wearing basketball shoes during public sessions.

 

mine had laces, though, so i had the poor person's version.

Edited April 5, 2022 by aziz

[aziz]

4 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Just so sad...  All five branches of the armed forces have made it possible for an enlisted service member to become an officer.  A Private became General in the U.S. Army.  But, even if it didn't happen, it still doesn't mean it's not a possibility.

point, please?  never said it wasn't possible, just said the skill sets required for the two jobs are entirely unrelated.  please keep on topic, sir.

 

5 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

There is ALWAYS something to be taught, no matter what tag you want to put on the teacher.

of course.  the problem is what can the teacher actually "teach"?  in the world of hockey head coaches, it isn't how to skate, how to shoot, how to pass, how to make saves.  it is how to coordinate as a 5 person unit to accomplish a larger plan.  strategy, not tactics.  why are you having such a problem with this?  have you seen ken hitchcock?  4th most career wins as a coach, and no evidence he ever knew how to take a slapshot.  in fact, reasonable inference is he was a terrible player, generally (again, i can't find him as even having played juniors).  scotty bowman never developed his skills as a player beyond that of juniors, what could he teach elite players about passing the puck?  why would you assume he had any idea about that tactical skill?  what he could do was organize 5 skaters in a way that maximized their abilities and minimized their weaknesses and his teams dominated.  not because he "taught" them how to play, but because he had them playing to a specific and effective plan, aligned with the skill sets his players already had.  general versus squad sergeant.  why is this so beyond you?

 

13 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Is that supposed to be some sort of sad, pathetic threat?  Lol...  You only continue to post incorrect information.  Even if you don't have the balls to admit it.  But again, like I said, yet another troll with very few tools at their disposal...

threat?  lol.  no threat.  i just got bored with hockey generally a few years ago, but am excited there is a guy popping his head up here that appears to want to go to war with everyone.  Wants to go to war with really shallow concepts of how the game works.  I'm excited.  you are giving me a reason to check back on this forum regularly.  no threat, a thanks.  I'm looking forward to it.

 

and again, you can keep with the ad hominins, if you they make you feel good.  they are a bit of tell of a person out of their depth, though, so i'd advise against using them overmuch.

 

good luck, sir!

[JR Ewing]

1 hour ago, aziz said:

 

there's always more to learn about any complicated system.  especially one that evolves over time.  the question here is can a failed hockey player, who lacked the essential skills to be notable in the sport as a player, pass on deep wisdom of those skills to an extremely highly skilled player as a coach?  and the obvious answer is "no".  yes, gretz learned more and more as he played through the years.  yes, carl (can't be bother to type that name out) kept learning.  they weren't learning from their coaches, though.  they were evolving their own experience into new understanding, based on said experiences.  that's the nature of the elite.  and they did not learn from some failed player that was now taking a salary as a coach.

 

Ohhhhhh... No, no. I agree with you completely. I just wanted to say a little quip about Yaz only (in his opinion) learning how to hit after his athletic ability betrayed him.

[ruxpin]

46 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Did Hitch marry a former ice skater?? Or hockey player??

 

Former Philly(dot)com boardie!   And Canadian golf pro.   

 

[ruxpin]

42 minutes ago, aziz said:

someone tracked her down to a semi-pro golfer that had played some rounds with hitch?  i think?  anyway.  they got married, apparently.  and she has some explaining to do.

Lol.  There were some of us that she privately told.  I don't think I was the earliest (a couple still on this board knew before me, I think) but among them.   It all came to a head when he was under the gun and, then, ultimately when the Flyers fired him.   In retrospect, probably the wrong move and some of what she said about "management" had some truth to it.    But don't tell her I said that.

[ruxpin]

40 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

But again, like I said, yet another troll with very few tools at their disposal...

Do  you have anything better to call someone?  I mean the reality is you're a fairly new member being an ill-informed, pompous  d*** to a well-established long-term member.

 

Who's the troll?

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by ruxpin