NHL 2022-23 Playoffs Western Conference RD 2: Vegas (P1) vs. Edmonton (P2) - (Vegas wins series 4-2)

[Tomdog]

The only reason Nurse got suspended is they wanted to even it for the petreangloe suspension. 

[Brewin Flames]

 

[pilldoc]

Again I digress ..... the Oilers Achilles Heal is their goaltending.

 

They need to address that in the offseason if this franchise wants to move forward.

 

However they have Campbell (31) for 4 more years at $5 million per.  Skinner (24) signs an extension for $2.6 million x3 more years.  That is 7.6 million in goaltending.

 

During the regular season Campbell was very pedestrian:

 

 

He has NOT started any games in post season...came in relief to get 1 win and has 1.19 GAA / 0.597 SV% in relief facing only 47 shots in 3 games

 

Down the stretch Skinner steals the crease with the following stats:

 

However, he has been absolutely brutal during the playoffs .....

 

Something has to give .....  "IF" Skinner is the netminder of the future, you simply CANNOT be paying your backup $5 million/yr to sit on the bench.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by pilldoc

[OccamsRazor]

 

CAN'T AGREE MORE!!!!

[Buffalo Rick]

 

McDavid and Edmonton face elimination but it won’t be easy to oust them in Edmonton.  This might go 7.  I still feel if you remove the Eichel vs McDavid perspective, Vegas still has more depth, and goaltending might be an edge too.  But anything can happen , just look at Florida 

Edited May 14, 2023 by pilldoc
no need for the 1st sentence

[Buffalo Rick]

17 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

CAN'T AGREE MORE!!!!

It’s hard to believe they did this.  Screw the East coast I guess?

[Buffalo Rick]

On 5/13/2023 at 1:11 PM, pilldoc said:

Again I digress ..... the Oilers Achilles Heal is their goaltending.

 

They need to address that in the offseason if this franchise wants to move forward.

 

However they have Campbell (31) for 4 more years at $5 million per.  Skinner (24) signs an extension for $2.6 million x3 more years.  That is 7.6 million in goaltending.

 

During the regular season Campbell was very pedestrian:

 

 

He has NOT started any games in post season...came in relief to get 1 win and has 1.19 GAA / 0.597 SV% in relief facing only 47 shots in 3 games

 

Down the stretch Skinner steals the crease with the following stats:

 

However, he has been absolutely brutal during the playoffs .....

 

Something has to give .....  "IF" Skinner is the netminder of the future, you simply CANNOT be paying your backup $5 million/yr to sit on the bench.

 

 

 

 

 

I don’t think it’s their only issue.  You take away McDavid and they would not be here.

[JR Ewing]

55 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

I don’t think it’s their only issue.  You take away McDavid and they would not be here.

 

I never considered this before... The Oilers wouldn't be as good if they didn't have the best player in the world?

 

 

Stop and think about things for a moment, because all of those arguments about the Oilers not having depth are so old and played out; you can't regularly win games in the NHL with just a star player. They were tied for the 5th most points in the league. They had the 2nd most regulation wins this year. The depth has improved tremendously.

 

The team's goal differentials over the last three seasons with 97 and 29 on and off.

 

In other words, tremendously improved depth. Of the players who had a +/0 of zero or less, only one remains on the roster: Evander Kane, who is clearly still recovering from a hideous injury. He doesn't even have feeling in his left arm from the elbow down.

 

I said before the playoffs that they could be bounced in the first round; it happens to quality teams every year, and it could happen in the 2nd round as well. If they lose to Vegas the biggest reason, by far, will be the play of the rookie goaltender, who's only given the team a quality start 36% of the time in this year's playoffs. I said before the season ended that I'm not thrilled with starting a rookie, and this is why.

Edited May 15, 2023 by JR Ewing

[Buffalo Rick]

36 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

I never considered this before... The Oilers wouldn't be as good if they didn't have the best player in the world?

 

 

Stop and think about things for a moment, because all of those arguments about the Oilers not having depth are so old and played out; you can't regularly win games in the NHL with just a star player. They were tied for the 5th most points in the league. They had the 2nd most regulation wins this year. The depth has improved tremendously.

 

The team's goal differentials over the last three seasons with 97 and 29 on and off.

 

In other words, tremendously improved depth. Of the players who had a +/0 of zero or less, only one remains on the roster: Evander Kane, who is clearly still recovering from a hideous injury. He doesn't even have feeling in his left arm from the elbow down.

 

I said before the playoffs that they could be bounced in the first round; it happens to quality teams every year, and it could happen in the 2nd round as well. If they lose to Vegas the biggest reason, by far, will be the play of the rookie goaltender, who's only given the team a quality start 36% of the time in this year's playoffs. I said before the season ended that I'm not thrilled with starting a rookie, and this is why.

In their defense over “wanting to move on “ stated Pilldoc, it’s not so easy to just “find” or get a good goalie.  So many teams, so few quality goalies.  Don’t get me started on that dirty Evander Kane!

Best player on the planet?  Maybe.  Top 2-3 for sure

Edited May 15, 2023 by Hockey Junkie

[JR Ewing]

16 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

In their defense over “wanting to move on “ stated Pilldoc, it’s not so easy to just “find” or get a good goalie.  So many teams, so few quality goalies.  Don’t get me started on that dirty Evander Kane!

Best player on the planet?  Maybe.  Top 2-3 for sure

 

Stop.     lol

 

He's just won his 5th Art Ross trophy, 3rd-most all time.

He's likely going to win his 3rd Hart trophy, which would give him as many as Mario and Bobby Orr.

He's quite likely going to win his 4th Lindsay, tying him with Lemieux, leaving only Gretzky with more.

TSN named his as the top player in the league for the 6th year in a row.

 

Arguing anything to the contrary is silly.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by JR Ewing

[Buffalo Rick]

14 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Stop.     lol

 

He's just won his 5th Art Ross trophy, 3rd-most all time.

He's likely going to win his 3rd Hart trophy, which would give him as many as Mario and Bobby Orr.

He's quite likely going to win his 4th Lindsay, tying him with Lemieux, leaving only Gretzky with more.

TSN named his as the top player in the league for the 6th year in a row.

 

Arguing anything to the contrary is silly.

 

 

How many beers have you had waiting for this nerve wracking game?  .  You will need more.   You’re probably a nervous wreck already!  You should be.  I’ve been there.  Looking down that barrel.  GL.  I think it’s likely going 7

[OccamsRazor]

Well.

 

Oilers are setting up tee times now.

 

Draisaitl -4 ooouch.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by OccamsRazor

[Brewin Flames]

10 hours ago, Hockey Junkie said:

It’s hard to believe they did this.  Screw the East coast I guess?

 

 

Pretty much....i'd not stay up a second to start a game the starts at 10 pm est...

 

 

[Brewin Flames]

 

[Buffalo Rick]

10 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

 

Stop.     lol

 

He's just won his 5th Art Ross trophy, 3rd-most all time.

He's likely going to win his 3rd Hart trophy, which would give him as many as Mario and Bobby Orr.

He's quite likely going to win his 4th Lindsay, tying him with Lemieux, leaving only Gretzky with more.

TSN named his as the top player in the league for the 6th year in a row.

 

Arguing anything to the contrary is silly.

 

 

Sorry about your boys JR

[NHL HHOF]

 

[Buffalo Rick]

I do not believe that Dallas or Seattle will beat Vegas.  It sure makes me mad knowing what a stupid ass move Adams made losing Eichel.  Huge mistake.  Vegas and Carolina can be very competitive and tough final.  Dallas could pull it off I suppose but I doubt it.  Eichel will hoist the Cup and I’m stuck with his Sabres jersey

[pilldoc]

Oilers need to figure out their goaltending…..

[Math]

I know JR might jump on me, but while the Oilers improved their depth, it's still a major issue along with their usual goaltending woes. Their top-6 is very strong but then you have a huge downtrend: Foegele, Bjugstad, Kostin, etc. are all serviceable players but nowhere guys that can significantly step up and become major underrated and decisive threats when it comes to close late play-off battles. Same for the defense: a big top-3 with Nurse, Bouchard and Ekholm, but there's a big gap next.

 

The Knights are a much more and well balanced team. Carrier, Roy, Amadio, Smith, Karlsson, Howden are all typical swiss-knife guys that offers many options to Cassidy. They can be on the PP, on the PK, some of them can play either center or winger. Brossoit, the 4th goalie on the list, hold the fort quite well and Hill responded well when he was called back to go the starter duties.

[JR Ewing]

2 hours ago, Math said:

I know JR might jump on me, but while the Oilers improved their depth, it's still a major issue along with their usual goaltending woes. Their top-6 is very strong but then you have a huge downtrend: Foegele, Bjugstad, Kostin, etc. are all serviceable players but nowhere guys that can significantly step up and become major underrated and decisive threats when it comes to close late play-off battles. Same for the defense: a big top-3 with Nurse, Bouchard and Ekholm, but there's a big gap next.

 

The Knights are a much more and well balanced team. Carrier, Roy, Amadio, Smith, Karlsson, Howden are all typical swiss-knife guys that offers many options to Cassidy. They can be on the PP, on the PK, some of them can play either center or winger. Brossoit, the 4th goalie on the list, hold the fort quite well and Hill responded well when he was called back to go the starter duties.

 

I'm not going to jump on you; certainly not. But yeah, of course Vegas has better depth: they have a $96M payroll. Conveniently enough, all of those players come out to a bit more than Mark Stone's caphit that was hidden until the regular season ended.

 

There were some problems this playoff:

-Hyman took a knee-on-knee early in the series (unpenalized, naturally) and was a shadow of himself from that point on.

-The Oilers need to move on from Kailer Yamamoto. He's simply too small, is always hurt, doesn't have the speed or hands to make up for the lack of size.  $3M is too much to pay a guy who can't score half a point per game despite being stapled to Leon Draisaitl. This playoff, he took twice as many minor penalties as he scored points. Not penalty minutes; minor penalties.

-Nugent-Hopkins put up points but got filled in an at ES by Vegas. He didn't look like himself this spring.

-Evander Kane is not yet recovered from his terrible wrist injury, to the extent that he can't feel anything from his elbow on down. Doctors said it should be better about a year after surgery.

-Draisaitl was night and day different in terms of effectiveness from the moment that Pietrangelo slashed him on the arm. Didn't score a point after that, and was -5.

-Kostin was very good in his limited play. 7 minutes a night and out-scored the players you mentioned other than Karlsson, and all played a lot more. One of the problems was that Woodcroft didn't find enough ways to get him on the ice more often.

-Bjugstad was brough in to solidify the 4th line and didn't get it done.

-Vincent Desharnais was outstanding in regular season, and the rookie followed it up with a few games in the playoffs that were just about as a bad as I've seen by a defenseman. Vegas targeted him early in game 1 and feasted. Plays a very nasty game, and the forwards were shying from him after that, and his effectiveness generally improved.

-I like Warren Foegele's motor, but nobody will ever accuse him of being a natural.

-Cody Ceci is batting too high in the order, getting 1RD minutes. Bouchard will knock him from that position next season.

-Phillip Broberg will probably have a long career as a two-way defender: has good size and can really skate, but he looked over-matched at this stage of his career; almost scared. A big part of his draft position was his skating, and on two occasions he completely wiped out on his own. The first time, he nearly killed himself crashing into the boards, and the other resulted in a penalty.

-Jay Woodcroft just. Kept. Going. Back. To. Skinner when it was clear the kid wasn't up to it. I think his future is bright, but he rarely looked solid. This is what I was said as the regular season was ending: I'm not thrilled with the idea of riding a rookie starter in the playoffs. Very few have ever been up to the task.

 

[pilldoc]

4 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

 

I'm not going to jump on you; certainly not. But yeah, of course Vegas has better depth: they have a $96M payroll. Conveniently enough, all of those players come out to a bit more than Mark Stone's caphit that was hidden until the regular season ended.

 

There were some problems this playoff:

-Hyman took a knee-on-knee early in the series (unpenalized, naturally) and was a shadow of himself from that point on.

-The Oilers need to move on from Kailer Yamamoto. He's simply too small, is always hurt, doesn't have the speed or hands to make up for the lack of size.  $3M is too much to pay a guy who can't score half a point per game despite being stapled to Leon Draisaitl. This playoff, he took twice as many minor penalties as he scored points. Not penalty minutes; minor penalties.

-Nugent-Hopkins put up points but got filled in an at ES by Vegas. He didn't look like himself this spring.

-Evander Kane is not yet recovered from his terrible wrist injury, to the extent that he can't feel anything from his elbow on down. Doctors said it should be better about a year after surgery.

-Draisaitl was night and day different in terms of effectiveness from the moment that Pietrangelo slashed him on the arm. Didn't score a point after that, and was -5.

-Kostin was very good in his limited play. 7 minutes a night and out-scored the players you mentioned other than Karlsson, and all played a lot more. One of the problems was that Woodcroft didn't find enough ways to get him on the ice more often.

-Bjugstad was brough in to solidify the 4th line and didn't get it done.

-Vincent Desharnais was outstanding in regular season, and the rookie followed it up with a few games in the playoffs that were just about as a bad as I've seen by a defenseman. Vegas targeted him early in game 1 and feasted. Plays a very nasty game, and the forwards were shying from him after that, and his effectiveness generally improved.

-I like Warren Foegele's motor, but nobody will ever accuse him of being a natural.

-Cody Ceci is batting too high in the order, getting 1RD minutes. Bouchard will knock him from that position next season.

-Phillip Broberg will probably have a long career as a two-way defender: has good size and can really skate, but he looked over-matched at this stage of his career; almost scared. A big part of his draft position was his skating, and on two occasions he completely wiped out on his own. The first time, he nearly killed himself crashing into the boards, and the other resulted in a penalty.

-Jay Woodcroft just. Kept. Going. Back. To. Skinner when it was clear the kid wasn't up to it. I think his future is bright, but he rarely looked solid. This is what I was said as the regular season was ending: I'm not thrilled with the idea of riding a rookie starter in the playoffs. Very few have ever been up to the task.

 

What’s your take?

 

Campbell or Skinner?

 

[JR Ewing]

Just now, pilldoc said:

What’s your take?

 

Campbell or Skinner?

 

 

It's not tenable to have $5M sitting on your bench, especially when you lose in two rounds after he outplayed the shaky rookie. I feel bad for Skinner, as I think he was under tremendous pressure; too much for a player of his experience. The weight of an organization which spent years spinning its wheels, with one of the greatest players in history (along with a future HOFer), in a market which is insane for hockey and where hockey is literally the only thing that happens or matters... And to top all of that, it's in his hometown.

[JR Ewing]

 

[Tomdog]

As alway JR with the the solid take. The only thing he missed was, of course Vegas has more depth they were the only team that did not have to give up a player to Seattle.

I'm pretty sure every team in the league would have a bit more depth without that expansion draft.

Vegas is good, but with that extra $14 million from the LTIR bank, they should be.

The league really needs to fix that hole. The idea of these players miraculously becomeing healthy as soon as the cap is gone is a joke.

[NHL HHOF]