NHL Players in the Olympics?

[flyercanuck]

@ruxpin

The real problem is IMO, where you draw the line for amateur? That was my point with White...if he has the money to have his own half pipe, as well as to afford personal trainers, dieticians etc, he obviously has a huge advantage over people who don't. Lets face it, countries like China, the US and Russia have been throwing millions upon milions into the olympics to prove they are the best. And it works. Other than hockey,Canada usually doesn't factor much in Olympics. We get the odd gold in skiing, snowboarding, etc. Last Winter Olympics there was a decision to throw a wack of money into it since it was being held here...the result was Canada winning the most gold. You can be a great athlete, but if you don't have the money to train properly (it's actually sad what most Canadian, among many other countries, Olympic athletes live off of. It's poverty line) you'll have a tough time winning.

IMO the playing field should be level, but how do you do that?

[ruxpin]

IMO the playing field should be level, but how do you do that?

Make food stamps cover Olympic training?

Honestly, I don't know. Like I said, I don't really have a huge problem with "pros" in the Olympics...largely because when it comes down to it I really couldn't care less about the Olympics. Just theoretically, I perceive a difference between endorsements and being paid for the actual sport. It's a distinction that is murky for the reasons you point out.

My problem is probably simply self-serving when it comes down to it: closing down something I care about for something I don't. For me, it's like closing my favorite bar to have it be a hair salon for a month.

[flyercanuck]

.

My problem is probably simply self-serving when it comes down to it: closing down something I care about for something I don't. For me, it's like closing my favorite bar to have it be a hair salon for a month.

Trust me rux, a molotov cocktail isn't going to change the Olympics.

[ruxpin]

Trust me rux, a molotov cocktail isn't going to change the Olympics.

Sadly, I know this is true.

[NRH]

The Olympic village itself is free to the athletes but the IOC only opens that up so far out from the actual games.

Endorsement deals do qualify you as a professional athlete, you're marketing a good based on your renown in "x" sport.

Unfortunately, the competition is where "fair" comes into play, hockey for example, everyone plays on the same ice and is given the same equipment and modification rules for it.

Most sports usually limit personal equipment or have restrictions on the type and everyone is suppose to follow the same drug free concept.

But to level the playing field as some of you are wanting? It's up to the athlete and his country to level the field of play as it concerns to training. It's not an international competition if everyone was to training and compete in Canda for the Olympic hockey tournament.

Adapt, overcome, compete

[flyercanuck]

@

That's easy to say. The US spent $46 million on it's Olympic tennis team in 2008. Does a tennis team from, say, Haiti have ANY chance of competing with that? I mean does Haiti even have $46 million?

[NRH]

@

That's easy to say. The US spent $46 million on it's Olympic tennis team in 2008. Does a tennis team from, say, Haiti have ANY chance of competing with that? I mean does Haiti even have $46 million?

Haiti has tennis players?

Last Olympic tennis I don't think Haiti had tennis players. Often times players of countries will play elsewhere. You notice how the USA hasn't had Olympic gold in tennis (other than the Williams sisters) in at least the past 4 Olympics?

Often times if you're pro you go where the money is, in a sport like hockey would you stay amateur for a gold medal or go pro for a Stanely Cup?

Money isn't really a factor for success, this is why I hate salary caps, teams in baseball and euro football drop millions ontop of a starting 11 just to place 3rd in their respective leagues.

Last I check dirt poor Ethiopians where crushing Americans in races and the races those Americans were winning? Naturalized Africans from Kenya (Bernard Lagat is a good example)

Did Canada spend more money on their players than us for their Olympic gold? What about those basketball teams that beat Lebron and company in the Olympics?

Are you going to tell me nobody is faster at 100m and 200m races than Usain Bolt because they're paying him more than the Aussie athletes?

I hate that nobody believes you can't overcome a person with more money than you.

When Billy Mills won the Olympic 10k in 1964 he was simply a marine reserve officer. He finished 2nd in the 10k at the UStrials.

If I offered you a million dollars more than stamkos would you outplay him?

[peter puck]

if im an nhl owner no way my multi million dollar investment goes to a dog and pony show.just imagine crosby suffering a concussion and having his career ended at what amounts to me as an exhibition game.

[jammer2]

@ "adapt, overcome, compete"

Really? Take the US Women's Gymnastic team. Notice the big famous Russian coach on the sidelines. He was there cause the US paid more for his services than anyone else could. He went were the money was. When you have millioins upon millions for the best training facilities, best coach's, best infrastructure, best scouting of youngsters who are carefully coddled from the age of 5....how do you compete with that? It's simply not a even playing field. The US decided a long time ago that appearing to be the best was of the utmost importance to them....and that's fine, but look at the world economy's, the trillion dollar US machine up against 30 some odd million Canadians, who do you think is coming out on top. The US is not genetically superior to the other Summer Olympic countries, they have more money to develop thier kids....it's a cash game, pure and simple.

If Phelps was Canadian he probably would not be the best swimmer in the world, not unless he could develop his talents on 15,000 a year.

[ruxpin]

"Endorsement deals do qualify you as a professional athlete,"

I think at one time--and maybe still--this was the Olympic definition. It's still the NCAA definition.

It's dumb.The only thing you're doing professionally is lending your name to something or your face. I understand the athlete got that gig because of whatever sport he/she played, but still, the only thing they are doing professionally is selling something.

By the above definition, Paris Hilton qualifies as a professional athlete.

[ruxpin]

Adapt, overcome, compete

You forgot "snore."

[ruxpin]

if im an nhl owner no way my multi million dollar investment goes to a dog and pony show.just imagine crosby suffering a concussion and having his career ended at what amounts to me as an exhibition game.

DING DING DING!

[ruxpin]

The US is not genetically superior to the other Summer Olympic countries

They're not, but who would care if they were? Gee, the US is genetically more able to run around an oval faster than everyone else. Woo freakin hoo. Still can't figure out a damn health care system.

[ruxpin]

If Phelps was Canadian he probably would not be the best swimmer in the world, not unless he could develop his talents on 15,000 a year.

If Phelps was Canadian he wouldn't even be in the water. He'd freeze it and skate on the damn thing.

[jammer2]

If Phelps was Canadian he wouldn't even be in the water. He'd freeze it and skate on the damn thing.

As long as the rink has a bong, he's good to go!

[ruxpin]

As long as the rink has a bong, he's good to go!

Oh, so he would have gone to the Richards-Carter School of Hockey

[NRH]

Phelps most likely would have still been introduced to a pool by his parents and been in the Olympics at age 16 and then on the same road he is on now. You'd have to change a lot more than location to get a man with his pedigree to stay away from a pool.

[NRH]

@ "adapt, overcome, compete"

Really? Take the US Women's Gymnastic team. Notice the big famous Russian coach on the sidelines. He was there cause the US paid more for his services than anyone else could. He went were the money was. When you have millioins upon millions for the best training facilities, best coach's, best infrastructure, best scouting of youngsters who are carefully coddled from the age of 5....how do you compete with that? It's simply not a even playing field. The US decided a long time ago that appearing to be the best was of the utmost importance to them....and that's fine, but look at the world economy's, the trillion dollar US machine up against 30 some odd million Canadians, who do you think is coming out on top. The US is not genetically superior to the other Summer Olympic countries, they have more money to develop thier kids....it's a cash game, pure and simple.

If Phelps was Canadian he probably would not be the best swimmer in the world, not unless he could develop his talents on 15,000 a year.

China has by far more success in gymnastics by age cheating than with money stacking.

I do believe the "russian" US gym coach is american too.

[jammer2]

@ It's actually Bela Karolyi, who was born in Romania. He was the coach of Nadia Comanechi, who received numerous perfect 10's at the 1976 Montreal Olympics. He defected to the States and eventually got dual Romanian/ US citizenship and coached Mary Lou Retten to numerous golds....well, he got US citizenship, with a little help from his friends that is...

"When Károlyi's status as the 1988 Olympic coach was jeopardized by the fact that he had not yet fulfilled the five-year residency requirement to become a U.S. citizen, two U.S. senators sponsored a special bill to waive the waiting period and grant him early citizenship."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9la_K%C3%A1rolyi

[ruxpin]

You'd have to change a lot more than location to get a man with his pedigree to stay away from a pool. doobie.

Fixed it for you. No charge. It's what I do.

[ruxpin]

and coached Mary Lou Retten to numerous golds

This has nothing to do with the point you're attempting to make, but it did remind me of one other thing: My utter distaste for Mary Lou Retten, none of which was really due to her personally.

The whole Olympic boycott thing in 1980 an the retaliation in 1984 went a long way to souring my view of the Olympics altogether. But MLR, the blowing her accomplishment way out of proportion, and the knowledge that it was done primarily because her top competition wasn't even there made me really dislike both MLR and the Olympics.

Look, there is a lot in the MLR story to like (the injury just prior to the Olympics, in particular), but seeing her EVERYWHERE and having the feeling that her sweeping victory was because her main competition didn't show up just really soured the whole thing for me.

[ruxpin]

By the way, @, this seems like as good a place as any to mention that I really like your avatar.

[DaGreatGazoo]

"Endorsement deals do qualify you as a professional athlete,"

I think at one time--and maybe still--this was the Olympic definition. It's still the NCAA definition.

It's dumb.The only thing you're doing professionally is lending your name to something or your face. I understand the athlete got that gig because of whatever sport he/she played, but still, the only thing they are doing professionally is selling something.

By the above definition, Paris Hilton qualifies as a professional athlete.

One point regarding the NCAA, that is ridiculous..is they only consider you professional in the sport you choose. Example..a football player/playing college football, can't sign a deal, etc...HOWEVER, if you play baseball, and get paid, and then come back to college to play football, that's okay.

Drew Henson got drafted by the Yankees and signed a monster deal..he then played football for Michigan. I think Chris Weinke from FSU also played minor league baseball, and then enrolled at FSU to play football.

[flyercanuck]

Haiti has tennis players?

It was an example of a country that can't throw millions at their olympians.

Last Olympic tennis I don't think Haiti had tennis players. Often times players of countries will play elsewhere. You notice how the USA hasn't had Olympic gold in tennis (other than the Williams sisters) in at least the past 4 Olympics?

Often times if you're pro you go where the money is, in a sport like hockey would you stay amateur for a gold medal or go pro for a Stanely Cup?

There are a lot more sports that don't have huge fanbases that will pay a small fortune to see them. Are you paying $4,000 for season tickets to pole vaulting?

Money isn't really a factor for success, this is why I hate salary caps, teams in baseball and euro football drop millions ontop of a starting 11 just to place 3rd in their respective leagues.

It is in the Olympics. C'mon, do Russia, China and the US really have ALL the best athletes, or do they just spend on all the best training?

Last I check dirt poor Ethiopians where crushing Americans in races and the races those Americans were winning? Naturalized Africans from Kenya (Bernard Lagat is a good example)

Yes, there are some exceptions to the rule. We all know about Kenyans and running.

Did Canada spend more money on their players than us for their Olympic gold? What about those basketball teams that beat Lebron and company in the Olympics?

Canada used to own the hockey world, because we had the best training available. A lot of countries are catching up. One need only look at the USDT and the success the US has had in U17s and U20s tournaments to drive this point home. Canada may still produce better players than the US overall , but if you put the money into a team development, it will do well. What if Canada had a team of their best players develop together instead of just throwing a bunch of guys together once every year or every four years? And this applies to all sports, not just hockey.

Are you going to tell me nobody is faster at 100m and 200m races than Usain Bolt because they're paying him more than the Aussie athletes?

It's not about what you're being paid. I'm talking about the money spent on training an athlete. And no it isn't 100%. But if you're a top athlete and you have the resources to train properly, you've got a huge advantage over an equal athlete who doesn't. And I don't know how you could possibly argue that.

I hate that nobody believes you can't overcome a person with more money than you.

Again, it's not what the athlete is being paid. Training facilities, diet, coaching, equipment etc. etc.

When Billy Mills won the Olympic 10k in 1964 he was simply a marine reserve officer. He finished 2nd in the 10k at the UStrials.

1964? Yes. And back in Greece 1500 years ago they weren't spending $46 million on tennis. What happened in 1964 or 1864 are totally irellevant in todays Olympics. And again there are a few isolated examples when some poor sod from the likes of Papua/New Guinea surprises the entire world with gold at boxing or something.

If I offered you a million dollars more than stamkos would you outplay him?

Yes, that's the point I was getting at. Because I've spent WAAAAAAY more time with better resources training in hockey than Steven Stamkos has. And of course there's that God-given talent thing.

[flyercanuck]

@ruxpin

Hey rux, I'm not really clear on this......do you like the Olympics?