radoran Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) Another point - ARE there 30 quality NHL markets in North America? MontrealTronnoOttawaWinnipegCalgaryEdmontonVancouver BahstanBuffaloRangersConey IslandersFluffyaNew JerseyPittsburghWashingtonColumbusRaleigh/DurhamMiamiTampa BayDallasSt. LouisChicagoDetroitMinneapolisDenverPhoenixAnaheimLos AngelesSan JoseNashville Go. Edited September 19, 2013 by radoran SPLIT from another thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 An NHL team and a Cracker Barrel at every highway exit! Woohoo!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TretiakCCCP20 Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Portland, Seattle, Quebec, Hartford, possibly Milwaukee. There are 5 right there that would be better suited for hockey than Miami... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Portland, Seattle, Quebec, Hartford, possibly Milwaukee. There are 5 right there that would be better suited for hockey than Miami...Yes, but that wasn't the question. Considering there are probably 5-10.cities who currently have teams but probably don't meet the criteria of thr question, it's a bit more tricky than you might think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Portland, Seattle, Quebec, Hartford, possibly Milwaukee. There are 5 right there that would be better suited for hockey than Miami... Two of which have already failed with NHL teams (three, if you want to include Seattle). As rux points out, the question is are there 30 total quality hockey markets. If we presume that places like Miami, Phoenix, Anaheim, Nashville, etc. are not "quality hockey markets" then having four additional cities doesn't really help. Even the Islanders - last in the league in attendance - if they sell out every seat in the Barclays Center would move from 30th to 26th in average attendance - just above Winnipeg which is sold out at 15,004. Miami averaged 16,991 a game last season. The Rangers averaged a whopping 209 more per game in their sold out MSG. Tampa? 8th in the league at 19,055. Ahead of Buffalo, Vancouver, Minnesota, Pittsburgh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsterix Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 (edited) Two of which have already failed with NHL teams (three, if you want to include Seattle). As rux points out, the question is are there 30 total quality hockey markets. If we presume that places like Miami, Phoenix, Anaheim, Nashville, etc. are not "quality hockey markets" then having four additional cities doesn't really help. Even the Islanders - last in the league in attendance - if they sell out every seat in the Barclays Center would move from 30th to 26th in average attendance - just above Winnipeg which is sold out at 15,004. Miami averaged 16,991 a game last season. The Rangers averaged a whopping 209 more per game in their sold out MSG. Tampa? 8th in the league at 19,055. Ahead of Buffalo, Vancouver, Minnesota, Pittsburgh... I'd be very careful using those numbers as in many occasions, the announced crowd was nowhere near the number of butts in the seats. As for the question of how many hockey markets, then why are they looking at expansion? It makes even less sense. I'd rather see teams relocate to markets like Seattle, Quebec City, Markam (ON). If Gary Bettman had fought as hard for Quebec, Winnipeg and Hartford back in the days as he did for Phoenix, they'd still be there! Edited September 18, 2013 by Habsterix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TretiakCCCP20 Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 @radoran The reason Canadian teams like Quebec moved in the mid-90's is because the Canadian dollar was weak. Its stronger than ever now. You're telling me the Quebec providence wouldn't welcome back another Quebec-Montreal rivalry?? Seattle failed back in 1920's, you could hardly use that as evidence because teams were much less stable back then, I think Seattle would be a great hockey market and it would create a natural rivalry with neighboring Vancouver. All in all I think we can agree that these ones I have mentioned would probably be better than Atlanta. As you may have noticed the NHL has had 2 failed franchises there and I hope to god they have learned their lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 I'd be very careful using those numbers as in many occasions, the announced crowd was nowhere near the number of butts in the seats. As for the question of how many hockey markets, then why are they looking at expansion? It makes even less sense. I'd rather see teams relocate to markets like Seattle, Quebec City, Markam (ON). If Gary Bettman had fought as hard for Quebec, Winnipeg and Hartford back in the days as he did for Phoenix, they'd still be there! And the original North Stars, too. Instead we have Dallas playing to mostly-empty seats. The "attendance" level does represent "paid" seats - but doesn't indicate what they paid for them or whether or not they show up. Look at Tronno a few years ago - selling out all the time and STILL not filling the lower bowl. And the point that Florida "averaged" 209 "paid seats" less than New York is factual - with New York obviously making MUCH MORE money from that similar number of seats sold. Expansion is a fool's errand before they fix the current problem franchises that have caused us to lose a season and a half of hockey in the past decade. And, for the record, I firmly believe that if New York City can have three franchises, Tronno should at least have one solid, professionally run NHL franchise. And the Leafs. NOTE: Not "Hamilton" - Tronno. @radoran The reason Canadian teams like Quebec moved in the mid-90's is because the Canadian dollar was weak. Its stronger than ever now. You're telling me the Quebec providence wouldn't welcome back another Quebec-Montreal rivalry?? Seattle failed back in 1920's, you could hardly use that as evidence because teams were much less stable back then, I think Seattle would be a great hockey market and it would create a natural rivalry with neighboring Vancouver. All in all I think we can agree that these ones I have mentioned would probably be better than Atlanta. As you may have noticed the NHL has had 2 failed franchises there and I hope to god they have learned their lesson. I think Quebec is a marvelous place for a hockey team. And I threw in Seattle as a joke/aside, obviously. The question is: list 30 "quality" NHL markets. Not four. Atlanta was a stupid idea in the first place and remains a stupid idea now. But the reason there are/were teams in Miami, Phoenix, Atlanta was to make the NHL more appealing for a national broadcaster. Now that one of the owners in the league OWNS the national broadcaster (Comcast, NBCUniversal), that should be less of a concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Portland, Seattle, Quebec, Hartford, possibly Milwaukee. There are 5 right there that would be better suited for hockey than Miami...Personally I do not believe Kansas City got a fair shake. Natural rivalry with the Hawks and Blues. I agree with Seattle Quebec and Possibly Portland, no way for Hartford and very, very doubtful for Milwaukee as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nossagog Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 Personally I do not believe Kansas City got a fair shake. Natural rivalry with the Hawks and Blues. I agree with Seattle Quebec and Possibly Portland, no way for Hartford and very, very doubtful for Milwaukee as well.I was out in Kansas, 60 miles from KC in the spring right around playoff time. Couldn't even find the scores in the newspaper out there. I don' t think that they would start with any natural hockey fans in the area. Not a way to start out a franchise in a city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 In No real particular order 1) Tronno2) Montreal3) Hamilton or Kitchener4) Quebec City5) Calgary6) Vancouver7) Edmonton8) Winnipeg- sort of9) New York City10) Brooklyn ( I know still NYC)11) Buff-low12) Seattle13) Philadelphia14) Washington DC15) Milwaukee 16) Columbus17) Detroit18) Minneapolis19) Los Angeles or Long Beach or Compton20) San Jose/ San Fancisco21) Anaheim22) Hartford23) Boston24) Chicago25) Dallas26) Boulder Colorado27) Pittsburgh28) St. Louis29) Kansas City30) Grand Rapids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 I think Quebec is a marvelous place for a hockey team. And I threw in Seattle as a joke/aside, obviously. You need to watch adding in those throw away lines. They'll kill you every time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 They should put a team in Anchorage or Juneau. It's a winter place so that's good, but in addition, they can keep an eye on Russia from the rink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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