JackStraw Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 One of Seravalli's better efforts imo: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20131118_Couturier_s_confidence_restored.html People really need to stop worrying about this kid. He's going to be fine. Better than fine in fact. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delcofan Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I'm in agreement. I've been somewhat impressed with him this year. I think his skating has progressed and what he lacks in speed he makes up for in positioning and intelligent play. Certainly a player we'd regret giving up on. I think he's pressing and the more he accepts his defensive role, his offensive production will increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 One of Seravalli's better efforts imo: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20131118_Couturier_s_confidence_restored.html People really need to stop worrying about this kid. He's going to be fine. Better than fine in fact. Stop. Just stop. Think what you want about him, but do not lecture people for being concerned about a player when his production has gotten worse each year he's in the league. Nobody is exaggerating or making up his stats. He's statistically worse than ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted November 18, 2013 Author Share Posted November 18, 2013 do not lecture people That wasn't a lecture. My lectures are much longer than that, and are followed up with an exam. Consider yourself lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted November 18, 2013 Author Share Posted November 18, 2013 @delcofan - I think his skating is about average for an NHL player, which is fine. He looks like he's filled out some and is stronger on the puck this year. The rest will come with time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 @fanaticV3.0 And yet there he is...20 years old and going head to head with the leagues best offensive players and holding his own. Generally younger players have an extremely difficult time playing without the puck in the NHL. Couturier is actually excelling at it. It's still a pivotal part of a team. And TWO guys picked before him have more points in the NHL...TWO. And 3 in that entire draft class. The points will come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted November 18, 2013 Author Share Posted November 18, 2013 And TWO guys picked before him have more points in the NHL...TWO. And 3 in that entire draft class I'm guessing that none of those 2 or 3 guys are 3rd line shutdown centers? They're probably playing on actual scoring lines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Sean Couturier has been in the league for two whole seasons this point. His first season? 27 points in 77 games - .35 ppg His second season? 15 points in 46 games - .33 ppg Such a startling dropoff, don't you think for a player who has "gotten worse each year he's in the league"? His 4 points in 19 this season is obviously a dropoff from his previous two, along with almost everyone else on the roster, but it is still early. To be clear, I'm not riding the Couturier bandwagon, but don't really see a "dropoff" of .02 ppg as an indication of a player being "worse" in his second season. I'm also not buying the whole "shutdown" thing yet - even with the "shutdown" of Evgeni Malkin, taking his 1.16 career ppg in playoff games to just 1.33 ppg when Couturier "shut him down" in 11-12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 @JackStraw Ryan Nugent Hopkins is one of them...he doesn't have a clue what "shutdown" means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 @fanaticV3.0 And yet there he is...20 years old and going head to head with the leagues best offensive players and holding his own. Generally younger players have an extremely difficult time playing without the puck in the NHL. Couturier is actually excelling at it. It's still a pivotal part of a team. And TWO guys picked before him have more points in the NHL...TWO. And 3 in that entire draft class. The points will come. Based on what? There is nothing supporting that. It would be one thing if he didn't progress or only regressed slightly (like his first vs second year). But he's actually regressed each season he's played so far. His average ppg has gone down from .35 ppg to .33 to .21. That first one isn't the worst thing in the world, but when he continues to regress that's concerning. There is nothing supporting the notion that the points will come at all. It's great that he's playing good D, but it matters very little when the rest of his game has gotten worse. It's not an excuse or defense for his struggles offensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 @radoran Im pretty sure Malkins ppg were a lot less when Couturier was actually on the ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 @fanaticV3.0 Based on he's 20 years old and most players don't peak at that age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 One of Seravalli's better efforts imo: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20131118_Couturier_s_confidence_restored.html People really need to stop worrying about this kid. He's going to be fine. Better than fine in fact. Jack... I completely agree. This kid is playing a defensive role and plays hard minutes against the opposing Teams best players night in and night out. I actually think his skating has improved this year and he has played some very good defensive hockey. The kid is 20 years old and has a good bit of development ahead of him... patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 But he's actually regressed each season he's played so far. His average ppg has gone down from .35 ppg to .33 to .21. That first one isn't the worst thing in the world, but when he continues to regress that's concerning. There is nothing supporting the notion that the points will come at all. do you not see that the entire team has taken a significant step backwards this season, and that gives at least some context to couturier's drop off? i said it in another thread, but the exact same argument can be made about voracek. giroux's points pace is way down. everyone's point pace is way down. are the all regressing, or might the collective offensive ineptitude have a ripple effect through everyone's stat sheet, and thus say a little less about a given player's career than you are making it out to say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 That wasn't a lecture. My lectures are much longer than that, and are followed up with an exam. Consider yourself lucky. Do you always run away from a conversation when you don't like or agree with someone or am I special? If you don't want to answer the question that's fine, but don't waste my time with this crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted November 18, 2013 Author Share Posted November 18, 2013 I'm also not buying the whole "shutdown" thing yet - even with the "shutdown" of Evgeni Malkin, taking his 1.16 career ppg in playoff games to just 1.33 ppg when Couturier "shut him down" in 11-12. Obviously nobody completely shuts down anybody else every time. But Couturier is sent out out against the opposing team's top scoring line basically every game and consistently holds those guys in check. Malkin, Crosby, Spezza... is there anyone else on the team that could be thrown out against those guys game after game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted November 18, 2013 Author Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) Do you always run away from a conversation when you don't like or agree with someone or am I special? If you don't want to answer the question that's fine, but don't waste my time with this crap. I was merely correcting you. I hate it when people are wrong on the internet. PS: you didn't ask me a question. Edited November 18, 2013 by JackStraw 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Obviously nobody completely shuts down anybody else every time. But Couturier is sent out out against the opposing team's top scoring line basically every game and consistently holds those guys in check. Malkin, Crosby, Spezza... is there anyone else on the team that could be thrown out against those guys game after game? I think he's done a pretty good job, especially considering his age. Nevertheless, the whole "shut down Malkin" legend is a little overblown IMO - especially since Malkin's ppg average in that series was above his career ppg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 @fanaticV3.0 Based on he's 20 years old and most players don't peak at that age. You're right, they don't peak at that age, but just because he's young doesn't mean he's guaranteed to get better with age. There are plenty of young players who never reach their full potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Gabriel Landeskog went 2nd overall in that draft. Great player, captain of his team, same age as Couturier. Over the 2+ years of playing in the NHL he's scored a grand total of 20 goals and 18 assists more than Couturier. That's approximately .1 goals and assists per game more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I was merely correcting you. I hate it when people are wrong on the internet. PS: you didn't ask me a question. That's kinda funny coming from the guy saying he will be fine despite his regression on the offensive side of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 You're right, they don't peak at that age, but just because he's young doesn't mean he's guaranteed to get better with age. There are plenty of young players who never reach their full potential. You're right. But I'm sick of watching our players reach their full potential on other teams because of a lack of patience. So I'm willing to give a 20 year old who plays sound defence and has outscored his ENTIRE draft class (other than 3) in the NHL the benefit of the doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted November 18, 2013 Author Share Posted November 18, 2013 I think he's done a pretty good job, especially considering his age. Nevertheless, the whole "shut down Malkin" legend is a little overblown IMO - especially since Malkin's ppg average in that series was above his career ppg. Maybe, maybe not. I think Malkin got a bunch of points in one game, and I don't remember him being involved in many big goals. Usually he's a guy that can change the course of a game, I don't remember him doing that in that series. That said, Malkin is (imo) the most talented player in the world. Nobody is going to shut him down for real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) Sean Couturier has been in the league for two whole seasons this point. His first season? 27 points in 77 games - .35 ppg His second season? 15 points in 46 games - .33 ppg Such a startling dropoff, don't you think for a player who has "gotten worse each year he's in the league"? His 4 points in 19 this season is obviously a dropoff from his previous two, along with almost everyone else on the roster, but it is still early. To be clear, I'm not riding the Couturier bandwagon, but don't really see a "dropoff" of .02 ppg as an indication of a player being "worse" in his second season. I'm also not buying the whole "shutdown" thing yet - even with the "shutdown" of Evgeni Malkin, taking his 1.16 career ppg in playoff games to just 1.33 ppg when Couturier "shut him down" in 11-12. He's showing progress defensively and others areas that can't be measured statistically, but I agree he's not a "shutdown center" yet. I would just say, "Looks good, hope he keeps it up, let's not jump the gun yet" as far as this aspect of his play goes. As far as his offense goes, .35 to .33 is practically nonexistent, but when he follows that up with a .21 ppg then we have a problem. If he ends up scoring at a rate of either of those first two years, I'm not bothered. But given the regression again, I'd be lying if I said there aren't some concerns with his offensive game. Edited November 18, 2013 by fanaticV3.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 You're right. But I'm sick of watching our players reach their full potential on other teams because of a lack of patience. So I'm willing to give a 20 year old who plays sound defence and has outscored his ENTIRE draft class (other than 3) in the NHL the benefit of the doubt. Amen FC!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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