The real villian- Brooks Orpik

[B21]

There is a difference. Rinaldo's stupid play took place while the game was in in progress, it wasn't to an unsuspecting player as Orpik was when Thornton jumped him.

 

Not sure why no one made a thread, other than there wasn't much to discuss. Rinaldo got what he deserved.  Some of us online at the time discussed it in the shoutbox. and in the game chat.  

 

I really could care less. I just found that to be ironic.  Forum full of Flyers fans. But the Neal knee gets all the pub.  I really don't "count" the shoutbox.  Anything that bad and involving a likely suspension always seems to get a thread started by someone.

[B21]

Ah no Thornton will get more than 6 games.  Book it!

 

I'd be "OK" with that.

[hf101]

Anything that bad and involving a likely suspension always seems to get a thread started by someone.

 

True.  Except Rinaldo isn't getting a suspension.  

 

[yave1964]

Look at the thread title, too.  Brooks Orpik the real villain? Gimma a break.

 

That is going to piss off Pens fans and I am going to respond accordingly.

Again, Orpik destroyed a defenseless player returning from a concussion and it was sickening watching Eriksson on the bench, no clue where he was or how he got there. It was sickening to me and I had no horse in the race.

  The refs blew it by not calling anything for starters. They also blew it by allowing the first eleven minutes simmer over to where the situation got completely out of hand.

  Today, one day later Thornton is easy to blame, but the fact is Orpik shares the blame as do the refs. Orpik acted cowardly in the face of retribution and it helped worsen the situation. There were many things he could have done to insure it did not get as bad as it was. He chose not to. This was a great deal his fault.

[DaGreatGazoo]

Look at the thread title, too. Brooks Orpik the real villain? Gimma a break.

That is going to piss off Pens fans and I am going to respond accordingly.

I'm pretty sure I defended Orpik in my 1st post. You don't think it's interference. I think it was.

Edited December 8, 2013 by DaGreatGazoo

[B21]

Again, Orpik destroyed a defenseless player returning from a concussion and it was sickening watching Eriksson on the bench, no clue where he was or how he got there. It was sickening to me and I had no horse in the race.

  The refs blew it by not calling anything for starters. They also blew it by allowing the first eleven minutes simmer over to where the situation got completely out of hand.

  Today, one day later Thornton is easy to blame, but the fact is Orpik shares the blame as do the refs. Orpik acted cowardly in the face of retribution and it helped worsen the situation. There were many things he could have done to insure it did not get as bad as it was. He chose not to. This was a great deal his fault.

 

It's not Orpik's job to know who is and isn't returning from a concussion.  Ericksson's status on the bench is irrelevant as the hit was clean.  The refs missing a questionable interference call does not matter.  The refs not taking control of a chippy game does not matter.  Stop trying to reach for excuses to justify an unjustifiable stance.

 

Orpik shares no blame at all. He's not obligated to go with Thornton. If Thornton doesn't think that he has other options at his disposal...hard hit. Try again to get him to drop.  This is all on Thornton. You DO NOT jump an unsuspecting player from behind while play is stopped, take him down and pound him in the head.

[B21]

I'm pretty sure I defended Orpik in my 1st post. You don't think it's interference. I think it was.

 

I know. We can agree to disagree there (on the interference). 

[yave1964]

And Orpik could play for my team any day of the week. A tough nasty responsible d-man who allows his mate to roam around knowing the back end is covered safely. Guys like Orpik, Scuderi and Paul Martin allow Letang to play as a fourth forward.

  But that does nothing to take away from the fact that he started this, ran and hid and then Thornton gave him his comeuppance.

[yave1964]

 If Thornton doesn't think that he has other options at his disposal...hard hit. Try again to get him to drop.  This is all on Thornton. You DO NOT jump an unsuspecting player from behind while play is stopped, take him down and pound him in the head.

AGREED with this, and Thornton will face the music for it. I wish Orpik well and hope for a quick recovery.

 

  That takes nothing away from my premise that Orpik could have and should have defused the situation.

[B21]

And Orpik could play for my team any day of the week. A tough nasty responsible d-man who allows his mate to roam around knowing the back end is covered safely. Guys like Orpik, Scuderi and Paul Martin allow Letang to play as a fourth forward.

  But that does nothing to take away from the fact that he started this, ran and hid and then Thornton gave him his comeuppance.

 

Except he didn't.  Thornton took the cowards way out. At least come at the guy face to face.  At least give Orpik a chance to defend himself. Thornotn couldn't even do that.

 

Keeping spinning how you wan't but no way any blame for this falls to Orpik.

[B21]

AGREED with this, and Thornton will face the music for it. I wish Orpik well and hope for a quick recovery.

 

  That takes nothing away from my premise that Orpik could have and should have defused the situation.

 

You can't defuse something you never see coming.

[B21]

yave1964, on 08 Dec 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:AGREED with this, and Thornton will face the music for it. I wish Orpik well and hope for a quick recovery.

That takes nothing away from my premise that Orpik could have and should have defused the situation.
You can't defuse something you never see coming.

 

In other words, maybe Orpik fights him if this time Thornton does it the right way...

[yave1964]

Except he didn't.  Thornton took the cowards way out. At least come at the guy face to face.  At least give Orpik a chance to defend himself. Thornotn couldn't even do that.

 

Keeping spinning how you wan't but no way any blame for this falls to Orpik.

Give Orpik a chance to defend himself??? That is what Thornton did earlier in the period and Orpik ran like a girl. There is no spin here pal, Orpik had a chance to defend himself and chose not to and that led to the blowup.

[yave1964]

The McSorley incident, the Bertuzzi incident and now the Thornton incident all started with players who refused to honor the code. Thank God Orpik was not seriously hurt, but following the code, showing up when called out by Thornton earlier for what Thornton felt was an injustice would have ended this.

 

  And before you get on me about Bertuzzi being a Wing, I struggle with that because I have a hard time with him still being in the game, but that is an entirely different subject. Thornton will face the music, Orpik refused to and that is how it got out of hand.

[B21]

Give Orpik a chance to defend himself??? That is what Thornton did earlier in the period and Orpik ran like a girl. There is no spin here pal, Orpik had a chance to defend himself and chose not to and that led to the blowup.

 

No - Thornton gave Orpik the option to fight the first time. Orpik declined.  Thornton didn't jump then did he? If Thornton was so hell bent on fighting him, why not jump him there when they are at least face to face?

 

Because Thornton took the cowardly way out.

 

He instead he waited to jump him while he wasn't looking. Knocked him to the ground. and punched him. Didn't come at him like a man. Didn't give him a chance to defend himself once he had him down.

 

As for your precious code - it doesn't apply to clean hits.  Different debate but this is what happens when you let the inmates run the asylum.

[nossagog]

@B21

  Thornton will be suspended and deserves it. I agree that he has earned what he has coming.  I just cannot for the life of me see how Orpik can hold his head up in the locker room with his teammates knowing he ran from Thornton like a little girl and then at a stop in play stood in a bunch of players two feet from the ref. Gutless. Thornton deserves his rep from last nights game. So does Orpik.

Couple of things here, first of, so if Deryk Engelland challanges Marchand, you think Marchand will oblige? I think not. When Matt Cooke answered for his Savard hit, it wasn't against the B's heavyweight, it was against a middle weight. Orpik, not being a fighter, would be stupid to drop the gloves with a heavyweight, especially for a clean hit.

Second, Geez I completely agree with your statements about deserving their reps, Thorton as a complete goon and Orpik as a hard hitting defenseman.

Edited December 8, 2013 by nossagog

[nossagog]

AGREED with this, and Thornton will face the music for it. I wish Orpik well and hope for a quick recovery.

 

  That takes nothing away from my premise that Orpik could have and should have defused the situation.

So Orpik is to take a beating from their enforcer for what was seen as a legal hit? Wasn't it just last week that the Boston coach harped about the need for player not retaliating for clean hits. Orpik had NO obligation to drop his gloves. If the B's were still unhappy, target him for hard legal hits as well by continually dumping it to his corner.

[ruxpin]

here is a gif of the hit. Eriksson doesn't know the hit is coming, and he doesn't have the puck.

INTERFERENCE!!!

http://www.chatsports.com/pittsburgh-penguins/a/GIF-Orpiks-hit-on-Loui-Eriksson-2-8944066

Can someone tell me how one looks at that clip and says no head contact? I see MOSTLY head contact. I don't completely agree with Yave's post but at least get where he's coming from.

[ruxpin]

3 players. 1 ref. But whatever. Not like that is something that happens every game.

Your backtracking now. Just went from a "few games" to deserves whatever he gets.

Gutless is attacking a guy from behind...like Thornton did. Gutless is not refusing to fight a guy because he thinks your clean hit was dirty.

I'm thinking Orpik's rep as a clean but hard hitting player emerges in tact after all is said and done.

The only little girl in this was Thornton.

And Neal. Carry on.

[ruxpin]

Again, Orpik destroyed a defenseless player returning from a concussion and it was sickening watching Eriksson on the bench, no clue where he was or how he got there. It was sickening to me and I had no horse in the race.

The refs blew it by not calling anything for starters. They also blew it by allowing the first eleven minutes simmer over to where the situation got completely out of hand.

Today, one day later Thornton is easy to blame, but the fact is Orpik shares the blame as do the refs. Orpik acted cowardly in the face of retribution and it helped worsen the situation. There were many things he could have done to insure it did not get as bad as it was. He chose not to. This was a great deal his fault.

Look, I actually think it was an illegal hit. Not dirty by my vague definition, but illegal. But I don't think how he looked on the bench or his history should be a criteria for a referee. No one is wearing a red no- contact jersey. I don't think a referee should be ambivalent about a call and then see the name or number on the jersey and then decide - - whether the offender or the victim.

And how he does or doesn't look on the bench can't be a factor. Minutes after play has resumed, the referee can't stop the play and go back and make a call or change the call because Louie is puking.

I think the Orpik hit and his unwillingness to fight coupled with Neal's idiocy were the contributing factors / cause of the Thornton frustration. But there is a difference between acknowledging this and FAULT. The only fault belongs to Thornton.

[nossagog]

Can someone tell me how one looks at that clip and says no had contact? I see MOSTLY had contact. I don't completely agree with Yave's post but at least get where he's coming from.

 

Just because there is contact with the head is not an automatic call for a penalty. Shanny will look at that as where is the primary point of contact, which is the body.   Orpik has him lined up straight on, not from the side for a Cooke style hit.  A hit that starts at body/shoulder is still okay even if it continues up to the head.

[nossagog]

Again, Orpik destroyed a defenseless player returning from a concussion and it was sickening watching Eriksson on the bench, no clue where he was or how he got there. It was sickening to me and I had no horse in the race.

  The refs blew it by not calling anything for starters. They also blew it by allowing the first eleven minutes simmer over to where the situation got completely out of hand.

  Today, one day later Thornton is easy to blame, but the fact is Orpik shares the blame as do the refs. Orpik acted cowardly in the face of retribution and it helped worsen the situation. There were many things he could have done to insure it did not get as bad as it was. He chose not to. This was a great deal his fault.

 

So let me get this straight, from your statement the blame here is:

1/3 to Orpik for making what was deemed to be a legal play and not fighting a goon because of it.

1/3 to the refs for not calling a penalty on what they deemed to be a legal play

1/3 to Thornton for slewfooting a player to the ice then driving his head into the ice with a punch/forearm

 

Okay, I'm all set, I get it now.

Edited December 8, 2013 by nossagog

[ruxpin]

Just because there is contact with the head is not an automatic call for a penalty. Shanny will look at that as where is the primary point of contact, which is the body. Orpik has him lined up straight on, not from the side for a Cooke style hit. A hit that starts at body/shoulder is still okay even if it continues up to the head.

I can agree. Due to Shanty's inconsistencies, there is precedent both ways. But I see head as primary contact on an unsuspecting player who does not have the puck.

I don't see what I would call a "launch" and I don't think he goes out of his way or changes stride or direction or anything. I don't see anything that leads me to believe there is an intent to injure. I don't believe it's dirty in any way. I don't perceive Orpik as that type of player.

But there is precedent in similar hits for a suspension. At least a penalty which wasn't called.

All this notwithstanding, I think blaming this whole sequence on Orpik is a bit over the top.

[nossagog]

I wonder if Shanny will do a diagnosis of this hit to clarify even if he thinks it is clean or just roll his comments into whatever happens to Thorton.   I put in another thread Kerry Fraiser's comments today in which he felt that the hit by Orpik was a clean hit. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=438513

[ruxpin]

I wonder if Shanny will do a diagnosis of this hit to clarify even if he thinks it is clean or just roll his comments into whatever happens to Thorton.   I put in another thread Kerry Fraiser's comments today in which he felt that the hit by Orpik was a clean hit. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=438513

 

I really wish he would.   I think it would be good for players, too.