yave1964 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Both are UFA at the end of the season, should the Wings make a play for a scoring winger to go along with the talent we already have at forward? To me it comes down to signability. If the Wings can work out a contract in advance with either of them than by all means make it happen. It looks like Vanek wants to test the free agent market and giving up too much for him for the final 20 games of the season seems foolish. I would not give up much off the current roster, maybe Sheahan and a second rounder, Glendening or in a pinch Jurco. That is about it, unless you have a deal in place. If a contract is agreed to in advance, then all bets are off. Moulson is not quite the player that Vanek is but he plays hard and would be a great long term fit. There is a lot of rumblings that teams such as the Kings and Canucks are pushing hard for him. If we could sign Moulson long term then the sky is the limit on what we should offer for him. As much as i love Tatar he would likely be the piece in play along with one of our top minor league d-men such as Oullet and a first rounder. I dont know if that is enough to make it happen but if we could sign him to a five year deal you gotta pay the price to make it happen now. So wow, what a return for Buffalo on the Vanek deal it would be. They would wind up with The Isles first rounder this year and their second next year, as well as the Wings first rounder and Tatar and Oullet. Huge win for the Sabres. The Wings get their scoring winger they desperately need. The Isles get egg on their face. So yes, if Moulson agrees to a long term contract just shut up and pay the price swallow hard and get it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I think both players could be a good fit for the Wings. I think it is going to come down to cost player-wise as to which man they go with. The Wings should have enough money room for both if the cost personnel-wise is not prohibitive..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDDS Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 @yave1964I'll be OK with either, although I dislike giving up Tats. Might have to, but I'd have to think about that one.Either way, I DON'T like either one IF it would interfere with obtaining a top-2 defenseman. THAT's what we really need.More than Vanek. More than Moulson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 @yave1964 Moulson does not play hard on the defensive side of the ledger. That makes him a no go for a coach like Babcock. He does just enough that he is not mentioned with the defensive dogs of the league, in other words, he plays a Jeff Carter brand of defense. Vanek would be a perfect fit. If I was the Wings, I'd be worried about blocking the way to the top 6 for guys like Tatar, Jurco, "Nike", etc...they would be more cost efficient and not tie up the cap. In a few short years (maybe less, who knows) some are all of them could be better than Moulson or Vanek. I'd be patient and let this team sink or swim without many additions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingNut722 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 @jammer2 Agreed on Moulson. He's a great forward and would certainly put up more than a few goals, but he's one-way only. Vanek would find a nice spot on the second line with Weiss and Franzen, including power play time as well. But there's no way Tatar should be given up for Vanek. The Wings would lose as much as they'd gain. I wouldn't make a high-priced trade at the deadline for either player. Let the season end. The price would be driven extremely high for these players, most likely by teams who want to make a last ditch effort to make a dent in the postseason - Ottawa, Vancouver, etc... The Red Wings certainly have trade material with several NHL-ready young'uns. But Tatar should not go anywhere. Oullet, yes. Emmerton, absolutely. Patrick Eaves and Joaquim Andersson could go too, now that Sheahan has established himself. Tatar stays... After all, it's Tomas Vanek. Now John Tavares on the other hand............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDDS Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 @WingNut722Well sure, I'd give up Eaves for Vanek! Like THAT'S even close to an even trade! ;-)But seriously, I dunno what Jimmy Howard's problem was earlier in the season, but he certainly seems to be over whatever it was for the most part. He was outstanding last night! Yes, he gave up the goal on Upshall's breakaway, but he only saw a total of 3 SOGs in that period. That is TOUGH on a goaltender, even the elite ones will tell you that. But did you see him in the 3rd?! The defense gave Florida numerous GRAND opportunities, including a lovely 2-on-0 breakaway which he stopped with a gorgeous toe save. He saved that game for us. Our defense really left him out to dry and he came through.I would honestly not go after Vanek after further consideration, so long as 2014 Jimmy keeps showing up. Let's face it, since he's come back this year, he has played mostly-solid goaltending. I'd rather save the drama of a goalie controversy and save up for a more elite defenseman. That's where we are truly deficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingNut722 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 @SpikeDDS With Jimmy Howard being at the very least "up and down" this season, it may not be a bad idea to lock up a veteran goal scorer to help bolster the offense in front of him. Tomas Vanek is not a Zack Parise, so he wouldn't command ALL of the open cap space, so it would leave room to also pick up a solid blue-liner. Kronwall and Ericsson will always be numbers one and two. DeKeyeser is right up there and I predict he'll end up being a huge second line pairing and even battling for top billing. I love his play and I see shades of Nick Lidstrom in his style and his point shot. Pairing him with a solid second line defender along with a second line scorer would be just the tick the Wings need. That should give Jimmy Howard the breathing room he needs to stabilize his game and dust out whatever cobwebs might be in the ol' brainbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 @SpikeDDS With Jimmy Howard being at the very least "up and down" this season, it may not be a bad idea to lock up a veteran goal scorer to help bolster the offense in front of him. Tomas Vanek is not a Zack Parise, so he wouldn't command ALL of the open cap space, so it would leave room to also pick up a solid blue-liner. Kronwall and Ericsson will always be numbers one and two. DeKeyeser is right up there and I predict he'll end up being a huge second line pairing and even battling for top billing. I love his play and I see shades of Nick Lidstrom in his style and his point shot. Pairing him with a solid second line defender along with a second line scorer would be just the tick the Wings need. That should give Jimmy Howard the breathing room he needs to stabilize his game and dust out whatever cobwebs might be in the ol' brainbox. Vanek has a higher career points per game (.836) than Parise (.814) and a higher career goals per game (.419 to .388) and a higher career shooting percentage (.149 to .113). Last season Vanek had 41 points in 38 games for Buffalo. Parise 38 in 48 for Minnesota. This season Vanek has 49 in 57 (.859) while Parise has 36 in 44 (.818). So, while Vanek is not a Zack Parise, the numbers say he's better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 @radoran You can also factor in that Praise has worked with a bit more talent than Vanek's Buffalo counterparts. Vanek went for long stretchs without the luxury of a legit center. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Clueless Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 @jammer2 Agreed on Moulson. He's a great forward and would certainly put up more than a few goals, but he's one-way only. Vanek would find a nice spot on the second line with Weiss and Franzen, including power play time as well. But there's no way Tatar should be given up for Vanek. The Wings would lose as much as they'd gain. I wouldn't make a high-priced trade at the deadline for either player. Let the season end. The price would be driven extremely high for these players, most likely by teams who want to make a last ditch effort to make a dent in the postseason - Ottawa, Vancouver, etc... The Red Wings certainly have trade material with several NHL-ready young'uns. But Tatar should not go anywhere. Oullet, yes. Emmerton, absolutely. Patrick Eaves and Joaquim Andersson could go too, now that Sheahan has established himself. Tatar stays... After all, it's Tomas Vanek. Now John Tavares on the other hand............. I think you are underestimating Vanek here. He's a great player. Tatar is an excellent young player, but if you have to give him up for a Vanek, in my mind, you do it. Now of course that would be assuming you could theoretically sign him and fit him under the cap, as well as what else you may or may not have to give up, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingNut722 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 @Commander Clueless That would be the reason to wait until the offseason. There's no way I'd try to trade for him before the deadline. He'll command a fair bit of salary on the open market, which means I would want to lose one of my youngest stars at the same time. Even for a cup run. @radoranParise is not putting up the same numbers with Minnesota as he did with New Jersey. For one reason or another (likely the change in line mates) he's just not turning out the points as he did previously. Vanek on the other hand, has only played for Buffalo (with the exception of this season) so we honestly don't know how well he would do elsewhere. I will agree with @jammer2 in saying he'd be a lot more successful with better linemates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 @radoranParise is not putting up the same numbers with Minnesota as he did with New Jersey. For one reason or another (likely the change in line mates) he's just not turning out the points as he did previously. Vanek on the other hand, has only played for Buffalo (with the exception of this season) so we honestly don't know how well he would do elsewhere. I will agree with @jammer2 in saying he'd be a lot more successful with better linemates. OK, but your statement seemed to indicate that Parise is clearly a better player and thus worth more on the open market than Vanek. Not sure anything really bears out that opinion. Also, Parise's not exactly fallen off a cliff in Minny. Last season he was "on pace" (48 games) for 31/65 and this year he is "on pace" (44 games) for 34/67 (he will not reach that due to missing 15 games with injury) - his last year in Jersey he was 31/69. His five-year average for full seasons (excepting his rookie year and the injury season) is 35/74. I think Vanek's production with the Isles more than bears out his value - with 44 games and 40 points he'd project to 74.5 points over a full season. That edges out his 10-11 season with BUF (73 points) and is his best season since 06-07 (43/84). His ppg with the Isles (.909) is higher than his .836 career ppg. With a capable center he's even more dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Clueless Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 @WingNut722 I completely understand that, but I wouldn't underestimate the value of having him for the playoffs and of having time to negotiate a contract before he hits the open market. In all likelihood, Detroit could also explore packages that don't include Tatar. I'm also not 100% they should even be buyers this deadline. They have a good amount of young talent that is up and coming. Waiting until the offseason, as you mentioned, may be the best course of action. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingNut722 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 @radoranEh...you're probably right. I forgot he was out with injury this season, which is why I didn't see the numbers I was looking for. And I didn't want to count Vanek's season this year because it's not over yet, and Vanek could, as you say, fall off a cliff. If he doesn't, it would certainly demonstrate his versatility as a winger, being able to put up respectable numbers with any line combination. Another reason Detroit should be eyeballing him. @Commander Clueless Other options besides Tatar would be preferred (assuming of course they go for the trade deadline). Tatar is a top scorer on the third or fourth line with Detroit. Vanek would most certainly take second line. The Wings have plenty of prospects and young players to deal. I know NYI is looking for capable talent to augment guys like Okposo and Tavares, so sending someone like Tomas Jurco, OR (not and) Riley Sheahan, coupled with a young defender might make for a nice package. Their ability and potential are high, but a low cap hit. The savings would allow Garth Snow to also pursue another "more expensive" scoring winger in the offseason as well. As has been discussed in many of the Detroit forums here, the greater need is for a better defender, which is a key flaw in Detroit's system right now. If a deal can be made a hot shot blueliner, that would produce that many more scoring chances for the existing offensive talent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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