JagerMeister Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Do you think they will be inducted?Should they be inducted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 DATSYUK: Nearly a point a game for his career, the best defensive forward of his generation. Lady Bing multiple times. Stanley Cup champion in 2002 and 2008. I think he is a couple of years away from being a lock but he is getting closer. ZETTERBERG: Came in in 2003, missing by a year of playing for the 2002 Cup win. Runner up for the Calder to Barrett Jackman (!) won the cup in 2008. Nearly a point a game player, spent his entire career with one team. My opinion is Hank, no matter how much I love him is that he is a lot like Patrik Elias in New Jersey, a solid skilled player who if he plays long enough his work ethic is unquestionable, his manhandling of Crosby in 2008 pretty much won the cup for the Wings, but I feel he is just short. Pavel is the Magic man. Z is great but not all time great. Pavel: Yes. Z: with all due respect, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 DATSYUK: Nearly a point a game for his career, the best defensive forward of his generation. Lady Bing multiple times. Stanley Cup champion in 2002 and 2008. I think he is a couple of years away from being a lock but he is getting closer. ZETTERBERG: Came in in 2003, missing by a year of playing for the 2002 Cup win. Runner up for the Calder to Barrett Jackman (!) won the cup in 2008. Nearly a point a game player, spent his entire career with one team. My opinion is Hank, no matter how much I love him is that he is a lot like Patrik Elias in New Jersey, a solid skilled player who if he plays long enough his work ethic is unquestionable, his manhandling of Crosby in 2008 pretty much won the cup for the Wings, but I feel he is just short. Pavel is the Magic man. Z is great but not all time great. Pavel: Yes. Z: with all due respect, no.Zetterberg has the postseason numbers Pavel doesnt, Yet there regular season numbers are almost the same, idk but Pavel also has more trophies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I would say definitely yes to Datsyuk. I would not be unhappy if Zetterberg got in, but he's bubble for the reasons @yave1964 stated. On the other hand, if Cam Neely got in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share Posted December 29, 2014 I would say definitely yes to Datsyuk. I would not be unhappy if Zetterberg got in, but he's bubble for the reasons @yave1964 stated. On the other hand, if Cam Neely got in...Cam Neely scored 50 goals in 44 games!!! and that wasnt even during the 80s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDDS Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 If the Wings win another Cup or two under Z's leadership, it makes him a much stronger candidate. He's a candidate for consideration, but not as compelling. Unlike Pav with his steals for example, Z doesn't stand out in any one particular area, which makes him a harder sell. Pav's in. I do wish he had focused a bit more on scoring rather than passing at times in his career. But he has changed the game, putting on a clinic for how to steal pucks and for flash introduced the league to how to embarrass goalies with a toe-drag score. I don't think Belfour ever retrieved his jockstrap from those rafters! ;-) Pav's in because he made his mark on the game, and it's easy to see. Harder to see Z's, but it can change. Winning changes things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 1. Was he ever commonly thought of as the best player in hockey while he played? Datsyuk: I don't remember too much of that sort of talk. Zetterberg: Same. 2. Was he ever commonly thought of as the best player at his position while he played? Datsyuk: Again, no. Zetterberg: Same thing again. 3. Was he ever among the top 10 leaders in any key stats? (G, A, Pts, W, SO, etc) Datsyuk: Yes. Five teams in top 10 of A, and 3 times in Pts. [1] Zetterberg: Yes. Once for G, 3 times for A, twice for Pts. [1] 4. Did the player ever lead the league in any key stats? (G, A, Pts, W, SO, etc) Datsyuk: No [1] Zetterberg: No [1] 5. Did he ever have an impact on a deep playoff run? Datsyuk: Yes. [2] Zetterberg: Yes [2] 6. Was he a key member of a Stanley Cup winner? Datsyuk: Yes, in 2002 and 2008. [3] Zetterberg: Yes, in 2008. [3] 7. Was he ever a team Captain? Datsyuk: No [3] Zetterberg: Yes, from 2013 thru today. [4] 8. Was he ever team Captain of a Stanley Cup winner? Datsyuk: No [3] Zetterberg: No [4] 9. Did many regard him to be an excellent defensive player? Datsyuk: Yes. Datsyuk has won 3 Selke Trophies and has 2 other top ten finishes in voting. [4] Zetterberg: He's a very good defensive player who has never been seen as one of the very best. [4] 10. Did many regard his physical play/hitting to be an intimidating factor? (NOTE: We're not looking for pests here) Datsyuk: No [4] Zetterberg: No [4] 11. Did he play alot/well after he passed his prime? Both are in their mid-30s and still playing well and a lot. Datsyuk: [5] Zetterberg: [5] 12. Was he ever elected to the 1st or 2nd All-Star team? Both have a 2nd AS team selection during their careers Datsyuk: [6] Zetterberg: [6] 13. Are many any other players with similar statistics in the HHOF? Datsyuk: Yes. Of the ten most statistically similar players, 6 are in the HOF. [7] Zetterberg: Yes. Of the ten most statistically similar players, 6 are also in the HOF. [7] 14. Did he win a Hart, Lindsay, Norris or Vezina Trophy? (NOTE for goalies: prior to 1982, use 1st All-Star selections) Datsyuk: No [7] Zetterberg: No. [7] 15. Did he win a Conn Smythe Trophy? (pre-1965: see resources) Datsyuk: No [7] Zetterberg: He won a Conn Smythe in 2008. [8] 16. Is there any evidence to suggest (due to circumstances beyond his control) that he was significantly better than is indicated by his statistics? (NOTE: We're looking for things like time missed due to global conflict, world politics, league wars, etc... NOT INJURY!) I don't really see the argument for either player. Datsyuk: No [7] Zetterberg: No. [8] 17. Did the player bring bring positive and intense focus on the game of hockey? No more than any other star players of their generation. Datsyuk: [7] Zetterberg: [8] 18. Was the player innovative, inspire a new style of play, or cause the league to change any of its rules as a result of the way he played? There's nothing I'm aware of, but as ever, I'm willing to listen to fans who saw more of the players than did I. Finish ------ Datsyuk - 7 Zetterberg - 8 Again, the scale: 13+ = Best of the best 11-12 = Unquestioned HOFer 9-10 = Great player 7-8 = Belongs in HOF 5-6 = Borderline 3-4 = Weak Argument 1-2 = Completely Unqualified This quiz sees both as being pretty worthy players, and definitely sees Zetterberg than Patrik Elias. Honestly, it kind of jibes with my own gut reaction to the question: they're both so similar in terms of results and career path, with Datsyuk having the advantage defensively and Zetterberg having a Conn Smythe on his mantle. I wouldn't be unhappy if either made it. Just for fun, and just because he was mentioned in the thread... Cam Neely... -The quiz sees him for Yes at numbers 2, 3, 5, 10 and 12, for 5 points. -That he scored 50 in 44 is amazing, but no one single thing a guy does in one single season is a good reason to put a player in the HHOF. It's trivia; it's a factoid. It's not much of an argument. however. It leads to far more questions rather than putting an emphasis on a player's greatness. Did somebody score 60 in 50? 70 in 60? Why is 50 the magic number? Etc, etc, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDDS Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Fantastic Q&A, @JR Ewing! The only one of your answers that I might question is #2 for Datsyuk. You can question how prominent the idea is, but there are many--and not just Wings fans--who considered him the best two-way player in the game. That's why he has won the Selke as many times as he has. Is that idea as prominent as it was for, say, Lidstrom? Not that universally agreed upon, no. But it has still been there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Fantastic Q&A, @JR Ewing! The only one of your answers that I might question is #2 for Datsyuk. You can question how prominent the idea is, but there are many--and not just Wings fans--who considered him the best two-way player in the game. That's why he has won the Selke as many times as he has. Is that idea as prominent as it was for, say, Lidstrom? Not that universally agreed upon, no. But it has still been there. I really get your point about that one, and trust me, I was thinking hard about it. In the end, I came down to one big thing for me. If there wasn't a general sentiment that he was the best hockey player while he played, what are the odds that he was the best center in the world? I don't like double-counting things, but it's tough to sustain an argument which suggests that a guy was the best center when he was never named to the 1st All-Star team. These are all niggling points, and none of it takes away from what a great career he's had, and now folks are just left to argue over the loose change. I think he's clearly a HOF player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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