Commander Clueless Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 @J0e Th0rnton Well, I mean 29 is prime age. As in, not old. Not that he's doing the best in his career, because as it turns out, real Phaneuf isn't as good as kid Phaneuf (scoring wise at least). Listen, I ain't a Phaneuf fan, but I feel like too often people compare him against his younger years like he ended up a disappointment (which I guess he did). The guy in the now is still a very good defenseman, but the disappointment factor and the fact that he's captain is like a lightning rod for criticism. I think the Leafs get pennies on the dollar for him in a trade. Earlier in the season, I would have told you that this was Phaneuf's best start to a season as a Maple Leaf. Historically, he slows down in the latter half, but then again....so does the entire damn team. The Leafs are trying to drop his minutes because they know the rely on him too much. The problem is, they have nobody else to rely on....meaning that's a terrible idea. If fans think we have a bad defense now, I can only imagine what they're going to say if Phaneuf and Franson are traded off. That's ugly beyond ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Clueless Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Like I said though, I might be an entirely biased Leaf fan. Although at this point, the hive mind mentality in Toronto is even harder on the Dion than fans of other teams, so I dunno. I'm not against trading anyone on this team at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Phaneuf is a decent defenceman. he's just overpaid and for too long. Trust me, I'm a Flyers fan... know overpaid and too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Kessel is going to be traded. I don't think it's a "maybe" thing anymore. This is inevitable. The Leafs need to make major changes to their roster and kick off yet another rebuild (hopefully doing it right this time). Kessel is the only asset the Leafs have that other teams really want. The Leafs should be able to get AT LEAST a first round draft pick (if not TWO first round draft picks) in exchange for Kessel, or they should be able to package Kessel along with Franson, Gardiner, Reimer, or some package of second tier players in exchange for a franchise #1 defenceman. I realize they're hard to find, but when you can say that you got a top 10 goal scorer, an offensive defenceman, a solid backup goaltender, and some other spare parts in exchange for ONE player, that's more than a fair deal to both teams. Even if the names involved were Doughty, Weber, Suter, and so on. You can't tell me LA wouldn't be willing to part with Doughty if they knew they had Kessel, Phaneuf / Franson, and Kadri coming back. The Kings are a good team, but I don't see them at the top of the West standings. They have holes. They need offence. If you throw enough "quarters" at someone, it adds up to more than a "dollar". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 @WordsOfWisdom The Kings can't trade $7 million in salary (Doughty) for $18 million in Kessel/Phaneuf/Kadri. Kessel is not a fit on the Kings who already have Gaborik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelhead77 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Kessel was traded* *in the fantasy draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 @WordsOfWisdom The Kings can't trade $7 million in salary (Doughty) for $18 million in Kessel/Phaneuf/Kadri. Kessel is not a fit on the Kings who already have Gaborik I hate the salary cap. The only team it hurts is Toronto. How about Doughty and one bad contract player that the Kings want to get rid of in exchange for any three players on the Leafs: - Kessel- Franson- Kadri- Phaneuf- Polak- Robidas- Reimer- Bozak- Clarkson- Gardiner- Smith- Holzer- Panik- etc. As a Leaf fan, all I care about is changing the core. I want the "core" guys gone. I want to start over with a young franchise defenceman and do things the right way. The Kings already have two Stanley Cups. The window is closing on their current group. They won't be able to keep them together much longer anyway due to cap issues. This would be a good time to change up the mix a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 @WordsOfWisdom The window may be closing....but if you're Lombardi, are you trading your 25 year old perennial Norris calibre defenceman whos got 5 more years at a very reasonable caphit for 3 guys who can't even get their team into the playoffs...at a lot larger hit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I hate the salary cap. The only team it hurts is Toronto. How about Doughty and one bad contract player that the Kings want to get rid of in exchange for any three players on the Leafs: - Kessel- Franson- Kadri- Phaneuf- Polak- Robidas- Reimer- Bozak- Clarkson- Gardiner- Smith- Holzer- Panik- etc. As a Leaf fan, all I care about is changing the core. I want the "core" guys gone. I want to start over with a young franchise defenceman and do things the right way. The Kings already have two Stanley Cups. The window is closing on their current group. They won't be able to keep them together much longer anyway due to cap issues. This would be a good time to change up the mix a bit. Franchise defensemen do not get traded bro. Not unless they want out. And certainly not for the scraps the leafs would offer. Sharks offer Colorado's 2016 2nd for Reimer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 @WordsOfWisdom The window may be closing....but if you're Lombardi, are you trading your 25 year old perennial Norris calibre defenceman whos got 5 more years at a very reasonable caphit for 3 guys who can't even get their team into the playoffs...at a lot larger hit? I know it sounds bizarre but stranger things have happened. ie: Toronto trading two first round draft picks (Seguin and Hamilton) for Kessel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Franchise defensemen do not get traded bro. Not unless they want out. And certainly not for the scraps the leafs would offer. Sharks offer Colorado's 2016 2nd for Reimer Maybe Drew Doughty secretly yearns to play in a hockey-crazed market like Toronto, help the franchise end their cup drought, and have his jersey number retired for two different teams. (Well it was worth a shot.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I know it sounds bizarre but stranger things have happened. ie: Toronto trading two first round draft picks (Seguin and Hamilton) for Kessel. Would Toronto do that trade now, knowing what they lost? Cause thats what LA would be doing. Maybe Drew Doughty secretly yearns to play in a hockey-crazed market like Toronto, help the franchise end their cup drought, and have his jersey number retired for two different teams. (Well it was worth a shot.) We've been hearing that for 35 years or more. NOBODY has ever done it without a huge contract being the bigger influence. See Clarkson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Would Toronto do that trade now, knowing what they lost? Cause thats what LA would be doing. We've been hearing that for 35 years or more. NOBODY has ever done it without a huge contract being the bigger influence. See Clarkson. Okay so plan B: MLSE kidnaps Doughty, brings him to Toronto, has his name legally changed, fobs it off as an amazingly similar looking albeit different person, makes him sign a 10-year contract with the Leafs, gives him shares in the company, and the Leafs get their #1 defenceman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 @WordsOfWisdom How about this....Leafs continue sucking...DON'T go on a tear in the last dozen games...DON'T trade their top pick away...draft their #1 defenceman. I know, pure fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 @WordsOfWisdom How about this....Leafs continue sucking...DON'T go on a tear in the last dozen games...DON'T trade their top pick away...draft their #1 defenceman. I know, pure fantasy. The run to 9th place begins in February baby!!!!! Yea!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Clueless Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 So post trade deadline, we Leafer fans have very little to talk about, save for the offseason. So, this offseason - what do you think the Leafs will do? Consider that general consensus of other teams' fans on the Internet seems to be that every single Leaf contract is beyond horrifying and will require salary retention, and that a team can only have three retained contracts on the books at one time. That means that we will be able to move a grand total of two players total this offseason (once the contract of Winnik runs out, since they are still retaining on Gunnarsson for one more year), and be mercilessly forced to keep the rest. So who do we move? Exceptions include RFAs without contracts, such as Kadri, Bernier, and Panik. We can skewer those guys to our hearts' content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Sounds like Phaneuf to the Wings is not dead yet. http://www.thescore.com/news/716173 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 So post trade deadline, we Leafer fans have very little to talk about, save for the offseason. So, this offseason - what do you think the Leafs will do? Consider that general consensus of other teams' fans on the Internet seems to be that every single Leaf contract is beyond horrifying and will require salary retention, and that a team can only have three retained contracts on the books at one time. That means that we will be able to move a grand total of two players total this offseason (once the contract of Winnik runs out, since they are still retaining on Gunnarsson for one more year), and be mercilessly forced to keep the rest. So who do we move? Exceptions include RFAs without contracts, such as Kadri, Bernier, and Panik. We can skewer those guys to our hearts' content. This off-season I think the Leafs will move Phaneuf, Kessel, Bernier/Reimer, and maybe even Bozak... and it'll cost them a fortune to do it. (The fortune of Leafs fans of course, so it's free money.) The trouble is, it never really makes sense to pay to get rid of someone and then pay for their replacement. You might as well just keep them. I'm perfectly fine with the Leafs keeping Phaneuf and Kessel around for the rebuild. If their contracts are untradeable, then don't trade them. Change everything else around them. There will be trades that can be made for prospects, and contracts that will expire with time naturally. Two bad contracts (Kessel and Phaneuf) aren't going to stop the rebuild. It may very well be Phaneuf, Kessel, and a bunch of rookies playing on this team next season. The goal is to bottom out, get some high draft picks in the next three years, and start fresh. If you can't acquire high draft picks via trade, then you acquire them via the draft lottery (currently by being 29th or 30th overall ideally). This should be a team that is at the salary floor for the next few years. This is essentially a three to five year process we're talking about here. The Leafs need to finish at or near the bottom of the standings (like Edmonton) during that entire time period. Then, if they don't screw up (like Edmonton), they can turn things around after that. Kessel and Phaneuf may not see another playoff game until 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Clueless Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Sounds like Phaneuf to the Wings is not dead yet. http://www.thescore.com/news/716173 Problem that I see with Phaneuf to the Wings is that the Leafs will probably need to take back Weiss. Now, Weiss is a better player than he gets credit for, but he doesn't do anything for Toronto at this point really. I'm not against taking him, but he really doesn't have any value for a "rebuilding" team. On the flipside, Toronto reportedly wanted Mantha, which of course Holland balked at. Best guess is that Nonis will take back salary, but will want something shiny in terms of prospects/picks/young players to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 @WordsOfWisdom The window may be closing....but if you're Lombardi, are you trading your 25 year old perennial Norris calibre defenceman whos got 5 more years at a very reasonable caphit for 3 guys who can't even get their team into the playoffs...at a lot larger hit? Hard to believe that in only two months Kessel has gone from being an "A-" player (as I rated him) to a "B" player today. I have never seen a player's value drop so much in such a short time. When the Leafs first acquired Kessel, I pondered whether he could be a 50-goal scorer. Today I'm wondering if he's still a first line guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 @WordsOfWisdom Kessel was never an A player. His complete disregard for the game when he doesn't have the puck has to be taken into consideration. There aren't many players I'd rather have ON the ice when my team has possession...you're basically playing a shorthanded team when Phil the Thrill is out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 @WordsOfWisdom Kessel was never an A player. His complete disregard for the game when he doesn't have the puck has to be taken into consideration. There aren't many players I'd rather have ON the ice when my team has possession...you're basically playing a shorthanded team when Phil the Thrill is out there. As a one-dimensional top 10 scoring forward in an offence-starved league, yeah he was considered elite. That's why I said "A-" instead of "A" or "A+". Now that his offence has vanished, he has nothing else to fall back on. Kessel is dead weight on the Leafs when he isn't scoring. The truly sad part is that he is still #2 on the team in my TVP (Total Value Points) stat. That is truly stunning. Even Kessel in his worst season in the NHL is 2x better than any other Leaf offensively not named JVR or Bozak. That's sad. That's why the Leafs are now 20th in GPG. They used to be #1. The Leafs entire roster is a bunch of stiffs offensively: Kadri, Komarov, Lupul, Gardiner, etc........ They're all terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 @WordsOfWisdom I was looking over +/- on the Flyers bums...Umberger -9 Vinnie -8, MacDonald -6 what a sad lot. Thought I'd check out the Leafs...Keesel, JVR and Bozak, a combined -91 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 -91!Yeah, its a completely useless stat. Doesn't tell you anything about what kind of hockey player a Phil Kessel is <ninja> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 @WordsOfWisdom I was looking over +/- on the Flyers bums...Umberger -9 Vinnie -8, MacDonald -6 what a sad lot. Thought I'd check out the Leafs...Keesel, JVR and Bozak, a combined -91 Kinda puts things in perspective doesn't it? The Flyers are having a down year, but the Leafs are terrible on a whole other level. Reporters in Toronto are now saying this is as bad as it was during the Harold Ballard era. They're even comparing newspaper articles from the 1980's to today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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