Commander Clueless Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 With the firing of Carlyle, the rumours are circulating that the Leafs are looking to make some moves. This, of course, is in direct contrast to what Dave Nonis said about the current roster...but hey, rumours be rumours! The biggest rumour is that Shanahan might want to move one of the big two of Phil Kessel and Dion Phaneuf. Salary giants, but still good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Hey how about some defenseman you've given up on for Voracek ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Clueless Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Ever hear of Jake Gardiner? Trust me, he's your man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 well let me see if Paul can talk Ron into sending you a second round pick this year... it's worth a shot right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Kessel is movable. Phaneuf is not without retaining Salary, and even then.....Someone might kick the tires on Gardiner and Franson, but the leafs are dealing from a position of weakness. Until i see the new coach and new direction he is taking the team, I am not sure which pieces they would want to move or keep. Kadri is the leaf who impressed me the most in the few games I watched due to improved two way play and possession. An offensive minded Coach would not want to part with Kessel. A defensive minded coach would make Kessel's life hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Well the Sabres have a ton of picks they could use to lure Kessel. But not sure if Nolan would be interested? I think we likely wait and use the picks in June. Nolan's grinding style with a guy who avoids contact like the plague and backchecks so lacksidaisally? This is funny. They finally got him to backcheck. but he did it with the intention of chirping every official on the ice and got a game misconduct hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Clueless Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Kessel is movable. Phaneuf is not without retaining Salary, and even then.....Someone might kick the tires on Gardiner and Franson, but the leafs are dealing from a position of weakness. Until i see the new coach and new direction he is taking the team, I am not sure which pieces they would want to move or keep. Kadri is the leaf who impressed me the most in the few games I watched due to improved two way play and possession. An offensive minded Coach would not want to part with Kessel. A defensive minded coach would make Kessel's life hell. I actually think that Phaneuf is probably more movable than most think, mostly because of a widespread need for quality defensemen. I doubt the Leafs will get "full" value for him because of the contract, and they'll likely have to take salary back. I'm not sure retention will be necessary, but it could be. @Hockey Junkie Kessel also has a limited NTC, so he'd have to list Buffalo as a team he'd want to go to. Not sure if he'd want to join a rebuilding team or not, having been on one the last however many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Clueless Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Nolan's grinding style with a guy who avoids contact like the plague and backchecks so lacksidaisally? This is funny. They finally got him to backcheck. but he did it with the intention of chirping every official on the ice and got a game misconduct hahaha I don't know if that counts considering the Leafs had possession. In reality, Kessel actually does backcheck (in his case, the "check" in there refers to stick check, not body check), but stops at the neutral zone. Corners are bad, yo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I actually think that Phaneuf is probably more movable than most think, mostly because of a widespread need for quality defensemen. I doubt the Leafs will get "full" value for him because of the contract, and they'll likely have to take salary back. I'm not sure retention will be necessary, but it could be. @Hockey Junkie Kessel also has a limited NTC, so he'd have to list Buffalo as a team he'd want to go to. Not sure if he'd want to join a rebuilding team or not, having been on one the last however many years.Phaneuf as been getting slower and even more clumsy, and no longer puts up the gawdy point totals. 2 goals and 20 assists in 40 games this season? And the leafs were actually playing decent for awhile. His style along is one not prone to aging well, and he is about to turn 30 years old, and will have a cap hit of 7 million dollars a year until 2021. Now, if Phaneuf was actually decent defensively, those point totals would be nice. Maybe I just caught the wrong games, but he looked like a 4.5 million dollar defenseman to me Inconceivable to me that a team would take that contract/Cap hit without forcing you guys to keep 2.5 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Clueless Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 @J0e Th0rnton Overall, Phaneuf has been our best defenseman by a long shot. He's actually having a very good season. On a ~45 point pace, great penalty killer, physical, eats big minutes and plays shutdown. He's a lot better defensively than most think. Can play either side. Gets a lot of hate even from his own fanbase, and a good chunk of it is unwarranted. I agree $7 mil is a tad too much for him, but he's a top pairing guy. Not a #1 perhaps, but certainly a guy who can log big minutes and play shutdown. He's actually quite good defensively, although mobility is a bit of an issue at times. I could see the Leafs retaining a bit for better value, but honestly I think whichever team nabs him will be happy. I don't think the Leafs will get great value out of him or anything, but I think the market is there. If Phaneuf were to hit the market as a FA, do you see him getting $4.5? I'd say $6 minimum. People are speculating players like Franson will command $5.5 or more, and if so, Phaneuf is easily worth $6. As you mentioned, the contract is long. Bit of a risk. Call me an optimistic Leafer, but I really do think the market is there for a defenseman of Phaneuf's calibre. Salary balancing will undoubtedly be needed, were he to be traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Reimer: Gone. Make a decision, keeping both is redundant and unhealthy. Gardiner: Gone if you can find a taker. Franson: Maybe, Offensive d-man who could use a change. Lupul: GONE in a heartbeat if someone gives anything usable, a bucket of practice pucks and a cracked stick maybe. Cannot stay healthy inconsistent when he is in the lineup. Really, this team is not that bad, really. Ride Bernier hard, make a run with the above pieces for a top six forward (Staal?) and see what happens. I must be the only one in here who sees a playoff team in these guys. I could, with a big move here and a tweak there even see them dangerous come postseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Clueless Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 @yave1964 Team is hard to judge. They look like they are on the cusp of being halfway good, but cannot consistently play a team defense/possession game. They show promise, and then fall back into turtling against on onslaught of shots. Gardiner's value is at an all time low. Just last year, he had a fantastic season. I'd rather hang on to him and see if he can rebound under a new coach and new system. Lupul, when healthy, is a great player. However, even when playing, you find out he's been nursing some injury or another. Made of glass, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 With the firing of Carlyle, the rumours are circulating that the Leafs are looking to make some moves. Luke Schenn and Carlo Coliacovo for JVR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Clueless Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 @radoran That's more than we traded him for! Done! See fans? Progress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Well, Doug Wilson flat out said we would not be moving young prospects or picks to take a run at the cup. Thus, we probably have nothing to offer you. LOL this quote made me laugh RC was only half the problem. Our players are living like Rock Gods here in Toronto. Clarkson's still going to get treated like King Saud of Arabia if he puts up 10 points a year. We need to humble them. Maybe egg an house or two.If we were to trade places with Montreal, Habs fans would be rioting on the streets and burning Kessel mannequins on the street all day, son.Humble these mothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Clueless Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 @J0e Th0rnton While probably true, I'm not sure Montreal is a great fanbase to imitate. Clarkson actually gets zero credit for anything he does right....which, of course, is not much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I wonder if they'd take Luke Schenn for JVR. Nah, no one is THAT stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Well, Doug Wilson flat out said we would not be moving young prospects or picks to take a run at the cup.Thus, we probably have nothing to offer you.LOL this quote made me laughJust wondering why you put your comment before the quote you're commenting about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Phaneuf as been getting slower and even more clumsy, and no longer puts up the gawdy point totals. 2 goals and 20 assists in 40 games this season? And the leafs were actually playing decent for awhile. His style along is one not prone to aging well, and he is about to turn 30 years old, and will have a cap hit of 7 million dollars a year until 2021. Now, if Phaneuf was actually decent defensively, those point totals would be nice. Maybe I just caught the wrong games, but he looked like a 4.5 million dollar defenseman to meInconceivable to me that a team would take that contract/Cap hit without forcing you guys to keep 2.5 million.Perfect for the Flyers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The way I see it, Franson will make 5 mill + during the free agency period next spring. The Leafs will not be able to afford that hefty price, thus a trade is inevitable. !00% chance that Cody is dealt, and my gut tells me it will be part of a bigger overall deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Just wondering why you put your comment before the quote you're commenting about. Nice way to smarm in 2015...well played rux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Clueless Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 @jammer2 I think Franson returning is a possibility, since the Leafs are pretty weak on the right side without him. That said, it would need to involve the Leafs moving out a bunch of salary, so it would probably depend on them going the "selling" route. Most likely scenario? I agree that Franson is a deadline move. I think he probably has some good value after the season he's having. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 @jammer2 I think Franson returning is a possibility, since the Leafs are pretty weak on the right side without him. That said, it would need to involve the Leafs moving out a bunch of salary, so it would probably depend on them going the "selling" route. Most likely scenario? I agree that Franson is a deadline move. I think he probably has some good value after the season he's having.Right side, right side, let me see here if I can remember what that is. OH! Thats right, the Wings have one righty on the the entire team, Glendening and he is among our lowest minutes played, probably as a punishment for shooting wrong, lol. too bad we are in the same division and will likely be fighting for one of the lower spots with each other, Franson would look great wearing the winged wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Most likely scenario? I agree that Franson is a deadline move. I think he probably has some good value after the season he's having. Ya just never know, some big names go off the trade board early....Franson could just command a first round pick from some desperate contender with injury or depth problems. Far stranger things have happened at the deadline. I have heard the TSN and Sportsnet crews both say Franson will be asking for 5-6 mill in free agency. Even if the Leafs clear cap space, I can't see them doing a long term deal for Cody at that price....UNLESS a literal miracle happens and they find a taker for Not Good Phenough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Clueless Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 @yave1964 It really depends if the Leafs are out of things at the deadline. I think they will run with the co-op coach between Spott and Horachek for a bit and see how the team responds before making any real player movements. If they continue to burn, I wouldn't be surprised to see them fall out of the playoff bubble and look to sell at the deadline. If that happens, Franson to Detroit for a high pick or a good prospect could be a very real possibility. @jammer2 I actually don't think moving Phaneuf would take the miracle some think it would, mostly because of a general desire for defense around the league. Phaneuf's monster contract obviously complicates things, but the guy is a pretty damn good defenseman despite the hate and is having a fantastic season for the most part. Is he a true #1? No. Is he top pairing? For sure, I'd say. Of course I could be completely wrong and a delusional Leaf fan (it's bound to happen), but a few rumour guys have mentioned league wide interest in him (Dreger and Kypreos I think? Not that I put much stock in either). The Leafs would no doubt need to take salary back, because such is the way of the new NHL. Anaheim has been vaguely mentioned in trade rumours, and I think he'd be a great fit there. Plus, we probably wouldn't need to take too much salary back, assuming they have the budget for Dion. Of course moving Dion probably moves this team into full re-rebuild mode, albeit with a much better foundation than the last time they tried this. The immediate defense without Phaneuf is atrocious, and without both Phaneuf and Franson it's eye-bleed inducing on paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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