My thoughts of the season gone by and the future!

[Old School Hockey]

REFLECTION:

After sitting back and thinking and getting over the fact this series was blown in game 4 I've come to terms with this year. So here's my notes for the year gone by!

1. All hockey people counted this team out way back in September. This was the miss the playoffs year.

2. The core of the team is solid. Abdelkader, DeKeyser, Smith, Ferraro, Glendening, Helm, Jurco, Nyquist, Sheahan, Tatar and Mrazek are all the future of this team and are all top notch at what they do.

3. Howard needs to submit his 10 team trade list.

4. Zidlicky needs to be resigned.

5. Hopefully Zetterberg and Datsyuk have 2 more good years left in them.

6. Ericsson needs to be gone.

7. Sign Mike Green and Johnny Oduya. Offer sheet Justin Schultz.

8. With the new found success DETROIT will become and attraction again for UFA's.

9. I'm incredibly thankful that the Illitch Family does what is needed to keep the team competitive.

10. It's 1000000% must that Babcock stays. With another year of experience under the belts of of those mentioned in point 2 this team is on the verge of championship level of play. If Babcock leaves I will have the same feeling I had when Bowman retired.

So that's my thoughts! Anyone agree/disagree?

[yave1964]

@Old School Hockey

 

Ericsson? I feel as a number two, stay at home blueliner who allows Kronwall to roam that he does a great job.

 

Among the kids we have Dylan Larkin and Athanasiou as centers who are nearly ready. Larkin was supposed to remain in school, the Wings are going to have him at Grand Rapids next year and he will be among the earliest callups. 

 

I agree with keeping Zidlicky but no way, no how to Green, he is past his prime and will command a five year deal at 6 million a year. Tooooooo much.

 

I hope Babs stays but Toronto could and likely will hand him  a blank check and tell him to fill in the zeroes. I don't know what he will do in that case.

 

Howard, we need to dump him QUICK. Lots of goalies available this year, give him away now before we get stuck with him. And resign the monster, a great backup when healthy.

 

Overall, a satisfying season, wish we had went further but we are in good shape going forward.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

Obviously I am not a Detroit fan, but I can offer a point of view as an outside fan of the team the Wings just finished giving a HELL of a series to:

I'll go point by point.

 

1--Yep. Not only hockey people, but many within the fanbase. Almost as if they were already 'bracing' themselves for this being "they year the Wings miss the playoffs". Personally, I am not surprised they got in.....since I've been a fan of the NHL back in the 90's the Wings were THE standard in competitive hockey. They've had ups, downs and everything in between, but you counted the Wings out of the post season ONLY at the risk of looking ridiculous in the end.  I am a person that believes a team is what they are, until they prove otherwise.  And Det has proven to be a thorough competitor and haven't proven that they don't belong in games past #82.

 

Besides, I did follow the exploits of the Grand Rapids Griffons as they came up through the minors (many of which are on the Wings now)...The Griffons beat a very dominant TB minor league squad for the Calder not too long ago, the Syracuse Crunch. The young Griffons were competitive then, as they are competitive now as Red Wings.

 

 

2--Read the end of point 1. Absolutely a solid core.

 

 

3--Well, if Jimmy Howard can accept a backup role (and if Detroit really does want to make Mrazek the number one), I'd say Howard can stay. The sticking point will be his salary, however....does anyone really want to pay a backup $5.5M? Probably not. But I believe he is still a capable net minder, if no longer a top tier one.  The Wings will have to look around very carefully though if they do end up trading Howard: you don't want the drop off from Mrazek to the backup to be too sharp....also, in case Mrazek somehow fizzles out over the next two seasons, you don't want to find yourself in 'goalie hell'.

 

 

4--Marek Zlidlicky. Meh. For the $3M (I assume he would want a raise from that too) he is paid, I think the Wings could do better FA-wise....or even fill his position with some young D-man they may have. Zlidlicky did play well in the TB series and even down the stretch, but frankly, I think that was due more to him being ECSTATIC of being off the NJ Devils.  Come the regular season, I believe he will be quite average, as I have always thought him to be.

 

Only my opinion of course, but I've seen him play enough to where I am not overly impressed by him....certainly not for more than the $3M he will likely seek.....plus he is 37 and will be playing 82 games (barring injury) in a VERY fast Atlantic division having to regularly cover speedsters from Tampa Bay, Florida, Ottawa, Montreal, and yes, even the Eichel and Bennet led forwards group of the Sabres.

 

 

5--They probably will....though Datsyuk always seems to be on the verge of needing time on the IR.

 

 

6--Can't speak on Ericsson.....don't know enough about him.

 

 

7--Either Mike Green OR Johnny Oduya sounds good. Underrated guys who can provide some offense from the blue line....at the expense of some defense of course.

Oduya, I believe, has actually improved his defensively play a bit over the years though. But with good overall Wings team defense, I think Detroit can live with a 'less than perfect coverage guy' from either of these if they can provide enough offense.  I wouldn't try signing both though....

 

And if the Detroit FO has the brass grapefruits to offer sheet Justin Schultz, more power to them....

 

 

8--Detroit has ALWAYS been an attraction to UFA's.....the team has never been the issue....probably more to do with Ken Holland's unwillingness to sign certain players.

But in fairness to him, he DID seem very anxious to basically grow and develop his own guys via Grand Rapids, thereby negating the need to sign too many expensive FA players. But yea, Detroit, as long as they conduct business in the professional manner they always have, will always be a consideration for quality free agents.

 

 

9--You'd know the Illitch family better than I.

 

 

10- If Mike Babcock's heart is still 100% into coaching this team, then yea, the Wings need to keep him around.....nevermind the 1st round playoff exit this year. This guy is smart, knows the young players, knows how to motivate, and can play 'chess' behind the bench with anyone.

However, if his heart and mind are elsewhere, then the Wings need to find someone who will bleed red n white, 24/7, 365/year.

A fully committed to this team Babcock is an excellent coach....one who is half hearted and wondering what is elsewhere for him...?  Not so much.

 

Wings ownership, GM, and Babcock all need to sit down and hammer out what is what, and then make the appropriate decision that is best for all.

 

 

 

 

There ya have it...

From a Tampa Bay Lightning fan who really CAN appreciate the way the Detroit Red Wings have gone about their business the last 20+ years....and is hoping Steve Yzerman can instill (I think he definitely has gotten the ball rolling) that, along with Lightning owner Jeff Vinik, into my team.

I'd LOVE to be able to say, 20 years from now, that my team has been in the playoffs every year...and picked up some Cups along the way like a certain team in red n white had done.

[Old School Hockey]

@Old School Hockey

 

Ericsson? I feel as a number two, stay at home blueliner who allows Kronwall to roam that he does a great job.

 

Among the kids we have Dylan Larkin and Athanasiou as centers who are nearly ready. Larkin was supposed to remain in school, the Wings are going to have him at Grand Rapids next year and he will be among the earliest callups. 

 

I agree with keeping Zidlicky but no way, no how to Green, he is past his prime and will command a five year deal at 6 million a year. Tooooooo much.

 

I hope Babs stays but Toronto could and likely will hand him  a blank check and tell him to fill in the zeroes. I don't know what he will do in that case.

 

Howard, we need to dump him QUICK. Lots of goalies available this year, give him away now before we get stuck with him. And resign the monster, a great backup when healthy.

 

Overall, a satisfying season, wish we had went further but we are in good shape going forward.

I was thinking of Green and his offense. And he's only 29. Not sure that's past his prime? But you're right he may command too much money?

I've read Babcock and family do want to stay in Detroit.

[Commander Clueless]

A couple of random observations from this random Leafs fan:

 

1) If you are signing Green, Oduya, and Zidlicky, that doesn't give you a lot of room to play with the young guys like Smith, Ouellet, and Marchenko, given Kronwall, Quincey, and DeKeyser still need spots. That's also assuming you move Ericsson.

 

2) Sure you guys don't want another crack at The Phaneuf? 

 

3) I don't think an offer sheets are a great plan. You probably lose a good deal of picks that way, or else Edmonton matches. They need defensemen worse than Detroit does.

[yave1964]

A couple of random observations from this random Leafs fan:

 

1) If you are signing Green, Oduya, and Zidlicky, that doesn't give you a lot of room to play with the young guys like Smith, Ouellet, and Marchenko, given Kronwall, Quincey, and DeKeyser still need spots. That's also assuming you move Ericsson.

 

2) Sure you guys don't want another crack at The Phaneuf? 

 

3) I don't think an offer sheets are a great plan. You probably lose a good deal of picks that way, or else Edmonton matches. They need defensemen worse than Detroit does.

Supposedly the deal for Phaneuf was Brendan Smith and Pulkinnen with the Leafs retaining half or nearly half of his salary. If that had occurred, I am convinced the Wings would have advanced this year. Hands down.

 

 But long term, which is the world where Holland and the Wings braintrust live, it would have been a dreadful deal. Pulkinnen has a very bright future and salary retained or not, Phaneuf is locked up for what, five more years? The Wings would be tied down to a player who is going to erode long before his contract is near up, I think Phaneuf is underrated, a lot of times a team sucks, the few good players get denigrated, and I think that is what has happened here. But it is that long term deal that would make me pass.

[WingNut722]

@yave1964  @Commander Clueless  @Old School Hockey  @TropicalFruitGirl26

 

 

I would agree with Swami that Ericsson should stay.  He made some silly mistakes that cost the Wings goals, but at the same time he does pair extremely well with Kronner.  I don't think we need MIke Green.  Zidlicky can stay too, but I think the salary would be tempered.  he is getting older, and this issue about a concussion recently could have the front office recoiling (don't want another Franzen situation).

 

I've been thinking more about the goalie situation and I believe the best way to approach the subject is to not think about individual salaries, rather a combined "Goaltending Budget" which is currently $6.04 Million.  With that $6MM, you have one goaltender who, as long as he stays healthy, has shown many times, in both regular season and playoffs, flashes of brilliance and optimistic, All-Star visions of a netminder that is capable of taking the team on his back through a very deep playoff run, but at the same time also has some very large holes to fill, and can also leave a team wondering how he managed to get a pro contract in the first place.

 

The other, of course, is Jimmy Howard.

 

This is a unique situation where the top goaltending job is up for grabs by two equally qualified contestants.  They can feed off each other and make each other better, but yes, the whole plan hinges upon keeping Babcock, who is probably the best guy to do nothing but fan the flames of the competition.  The better guy gets the job.  

 

Gustavvson should be released.  He's a decent goaltender, but the man just can't stay healthy.  Mrazek is ready for to stay in Detroit for good.

[yave1964]

@WingNut722

Where you been?? Good post big guy. Nice comparison of the two netminders.

 

Zidlicky was a good pickup, IMHO and I would hope the Wings can resign him. Beyond that I don't think I would go adding a bunch of blueliners. We have:

Ericsson

Kronner

DK

Zidlicky

Smith

Oullet

Marchenko

Sproul

Quincey

 

That is nine NHL d-men, not counting the I hope soon to be Ex Red Wing Kindl. Six veterans and three solid kids all chomping at the bit. Sproul took a bit of a step back this year at GR but I still think he has the heaviest shot on our back end and he deserves a look next year.

 

If anything, I think that we were exposed as being a bit short at forward against Tampa, our third line usually consisted of Sheahan who is more than fine, but his wingers were Jurco and Ferraro. I know that we added Cole and he was doing ok until injuries ruined his year (and possibly his career) but I am hoping that the depth improves next season, Mantha and Athanasiou and Pulkinnen all getting fair cracks at making the club and sticking. I see Pulkinnen having a breakout year next season the same as Nyquist had two years ago.

 

 Overall, I would have loved to have advanced, but I am satisfied, a 100 point season, essentially moved on from Franzen and have kids screaming for ice time everywhere at every position. Set for the forseable future anyway.

[jammer2]

@Old School Hockey  I agree with everything except for #'s 6 and 7.  Erickson is a decent d-man. If he is cut loose to make room for Sproul and or Xavier Ouellete....I'd be ok with that, they need make room for at least one of these guys....I'd rather it be Kindl go than Erickson though. He's fairly dependable.

 

 I would stay far away from Mike Green, he will command WAY to much money, he does not play Red Wing hockey, he's not dedicated enough in his own end.  Johnny O, he would be ok, but why pay for a vet who is probably going to start to decline, when you have quality kids in Sproul and Ouettlet in the ranks.

 

 Justin Schultz is a mess, horrible in his own end, he only offers offense, and Zidlicky is better at it than Schultz, I'd stay away from him...far away.

[SpikeDDS]

@OldSchoolHockey

Agree except:

#3: Depends on what what the market will bear for Howard. Monster is OK, but gets injured too. With his performance of late--or lack of it, I should say, may not get much, and we may end up keeping a lot of his salary. Might be better to hang onto him. Let Kenny see if he can deal, but if there's not much interest, he'll be a fine, but expensive, backup.

#6: Disagree on Erickson. Not perfect, but I'd be losing Kindl first.

#7: Not sure I like any of the above. Green will be costly, and do you really think he fits? A guy like Odouya is a better deadline pickup, methinks. We've got you guys to develop, so let's develop them with some NHL ice time. If we need a guy at put us over the top, then add him at the deadline. Add Johnny O now and you slow down the development of the kids who may solve some of our issues by themselves. Who knows who may be available at next season's deadline. Might be better than him.

#10: I don't disagree that it would be better if Babcock stays, but I don't think it's the end of the world if he doesn't stay. Fortunately, the latest buzz makes it sound like family is leaning toward staying. That, and his comment that when he has left other jobs in the past he did so for better jobs, and that there really isn't a better job out there. That says a lot! Good for us! Maybe @yave1964 's prediction will be wrong after all.

[Old School Hockey]

@OldSchoolHockey

Agree except:

#3: Depends on what what the market will bear for Howard. Monster is OK, but gets injured too. With his performance of late--or lack of it, I should say, may not get much, and we may end up keeping a lot of his salary. Might be better to hang onto him. Let Kenny see if he can deal, but if there's not much interest, he'll be a fine, but expensive, backup.

#6: Disagree on Erickson. Not perfect, but I'd be losing Kindl first.

#7: Not sure I like any of the above. Green will be costly, and do you really think he fits? A guy like Odouya is a better deadline pickup, methinks. We've got you guys to develop, so let's develop them with some NHL ice time. If we need a guy at put us over the top, then add him at the deadline. Add Johnny O now and you slow down the development of the kids who may solve some of our issues by themselves. Who knows who may be available at next season's deadline. Might be better than him.

#10: I don't disagree that it would be better if Babcock stays, but I don't think it's the end of the world if he doesn't stay. Fortunately, the latest buzz makes it sound like family is leaning toward staying. That, and his comment that when he has left other jobs in the past he did so for better jobs, and that there really isn't a better job out there. That says a lot! Good for us! Maybe @yave1964 's prediction will be wrong after all.

To #3 you just can't have a 6m backup.

Just thought of Green is a very good puck moving scoring defenseman. But you're right the price might be too high.

[Commander Clueless]

Supposedly the deal for Phaneuf was Brendan Smith and Pulkinnen with the Leafs retaining half or nearly half of his salary. If that had occurred, I am convinced the Wings would have advanced this year. Hands down.

 

 But long term, which is the world where Holland and the Wings braintrust live, it would have been a dreadful deal. Pulkinnen has a very bright future and salary retained or not, Phaneuf is locked up for what, five more years? The Wings would be tied down to a player who is going to erode long before his contract is near up, I think Phaneuf is underrated, a lot of times a team sucks, the few good players get denigrated, and I think that is what has happened here. But it is that long term deal that would make me pass.

 

Contract is six more years, IIRC, and takes him until he's 35. There's nothing saying he will definitely decline, but it's certainly not unreasonable speculation. I agree it's likely.

 

I don't know if I agree that the deal you mentioned would be dreadful for the Wings.  Even if Phaneuf's decline is inevitable, having him around at $3.5M is hardly a problem.

 

That said, the deal you mention is absolutely dreadful for the Leafs. Half retained? Sweet Hannah of the Savannah, that's crazy. I like Pulkkinen and Smith as trade bait, but that's a lot of dead cap for a long time. Holland would've been as crazy to not accept that as Nonis would've been to accept that IMO. 

 

 

I did hear a rumour of it being Phaneuf for Weiss, Pulkkinen, and Smith, which I like better (and is obviously much worse for Detroit in the later years of THE CONTRACT). Either way, rumour has it Holland wanted retention and Nonis balked. Some say Nonis wanted Mantha, but that's, of course, all hearsay.

 

In any case, Detroit has a few options to solidify the defense a bit, including some progression from guys like XO and Marchenko. Smith actually looked pretty good in a couple of those games against Tampa as well. A Phaneuf trade revisited isn't out of the question either, although if it does happen I honestly hope it's a little bit better for the Leafs than that.

[yave1964]

@Commander Clueless

 

Let me say this, I think Phaneuf is one of the most underrated players in Hockey today, and I am being sincere with that, no joke to follow.

 It is easy to blast on him, kind of like ripping the Captain of the Titanic, while all around Dion looked for lifeboats or pouted through a lost season he worked his tail off all year, he hits, blocks shots, will fight, he is not a big offensive force, much to fans dismay but to me he fits the very mold of a rugged blueliner to a tee. He could play for me any day fo the week and twice on Sunday. Anyone who rips him needs to study the stats a bit closer and actually watch a Leaf game, he brings it every single night.

 

 That said, I am glad the Wings did not give up Pulkinnen and Smith for him. I think we would regret that huge contract for the final several years of the deal. He is likely to break down because of his hard hitting physical style that he plays. I would love to see the Wings/Leafs revisit a deal over the summer, I know it is difficult to deal within your own division and it would be hard to see Pulkinnen lighting the lamp 25-30 times a year for the next decade in the same division. I hope the two teams can come to an agreement tho, I always admired the hard hitting style that Phaneuf plays.@Old School Hockey Green, to me, is a soft player, a better offensive talent than Phaneuf even in decline but I dont think he is disciplined enough to play red Wings hockey. I think if Phaneuf was on our team we would have beaten Tampa, but still fell short of the cup. A huge price to pay for a playoff run, like I said, Phaneuf would be on my wish list but only if the price were right.

[Commander Clueless]

@yave1964

 

Fair enough, but if the deal you mentioned also involved the Leafs taking half the salary, that big contract all of a sudden becomes a small contract. Well, it's still long term, but it's pretty cheap considering. Dion at $3.5M is a steal in the now, and even if Phaneuf declines significantly and is playing bottom pairing at age 35, that's still not completely awful. At full price, though? It's a definite concern at full price.

 

That's a bit of a moot point, however, since retaining half of Phaneuf's contract strikes me as a terrible idea from Toronto...especially to move him within the division. 

 

....not that that matters, since the Leafs are irrelevant. 

 

 

 

While Green is likely not as good of an option, he may come with the bonus of not having to trade anything to get him....assuming he is a) not re-signed by Washington, and b) interested in Detroit.

[SpikeDDS]

To #3 you just can't have a 6m backup..

My point was that it all depends on how much of that $6M we would have to retain to deal him. I have a hard time seeing someone picking Howard up and assuming all--or even a large portion of--his $6M contract. And if we are gonna be left holding half of that anyway, I say we are better off keeping him rather than dumping him, being stuck paying $3M to let him play for someone else, and THEN having to pay Monster his salary to keep him too, leaving about $2M to get more help somewhere else. Not sure how much of a better team that situation leaves us in than Howard backing up Mrazek as it is.

If we were a lot closer to the cap, I could see that $2M in relief having more significance. I might also see it if there was a better crop of UFAs available, and the $2M could be what allows us to afford a star player. There's really no one that I'm pining for out there which makes dumping Howard and keeping $2M a no-brainier.

I'll say this about Howard: he took his demotion with dignity. He didn't lash out at Babcock's call to start Mrazek in the playoffs. He could have really made waves in the dressing room if he wanted. I heard NOTHING about anything like that from any player. That tells me that Howard can work with Mrazek as a backup.

To me, unless we can dump MOST of that contract as we dump him, the smart play is to keep Howard, the lesser of two evils.

[jammer2]

To me, unless we can dump MOST of that contract as we dump him, the smart play is to keep Howard, the lesser of two evils.

 

  That is how I see it also Spike. A lot of people will say it's to much to pay for a back up....but maybe a better way to think about it is that the WIngs will allocate 7 mill for goalies....might make fans take it a bit easier. Plus, even though Mrazek is now the clear cut #1 goalie, we don't really know how he will perform with a MUCH bigger work load. There would still be a need for a stellar back up....and with the Monsters injury prone last couple of years, I would not feel safe going into a season with Mrazek/Monster tandem. Another positive, there is a lot that Mrazek could learn from Howard, both on and off the ice....how to prepare properly, tips on shooters, nuances of different buildings....the list goes on and on.

[SpikeDDS]

Another positive, there is a lot that Mrazek could learn from Howard, both on and off the ice....how to prepare properly, tips on shooters, nuances of different buildings....the list goes on and on.

Like how to lose in the shootout... ;-P

I agree with you.