Is Mantha the Answer?

[SpikeDDS]

It was only one game. It wasn't even a GOOD game for the Wings. In fact, the first period was their worst period of the season. Yes, even worse than the first period of the Columbus game. But from the debacle came one shiny positive: Anthony Mantha.

 

I gotta say that for SEVERAL seasons I have been on Holland to find us a net front, big body guy who can score. It's the element of the game that has been missing since Homer declined. It's not that you can't win games without a net front guy. You can. But can you seriously compete for a Cup without one? Not anymore. Not in the NHPL--that's the National Hockey Parity League. We have somehow been able to be mediocre enough to make the playoffs these past few seasons without one. But we have then predictably exited the playoffs in the first round.

 

But last night's game showed me some hope. Here comes Anthony Mantha, who has been banished in the AHL for almost two seasons--and probably rightly so. But it has allowed him to find his game again after a lousy first season coming off of that tibia fracture. And it seemed like a breath of fresh air in yesterday's game--which was kind of easy considering the stench that was coming from the Wings game in the first period! Even in that period, you could see his mind trying to create things. Still trying to find his legs, he was battling. And then he started to play and make an impact in the second and third periods. First shot was on a breakaway, but he broke his stick on it. Still got the shot on net, but not with the intended force or elevation. In the third, another breakaway opportunity, and CLANG--beating Mason, but not the post.

 

I think, the kid made an impact on much more than just those two plays. There were a couple of puck retrievals for second chances that he created. And though he got baptized in the first being plowed to the ice in a puck battle (Welcome to the NHL, kid!), it only seemed to get him going.

 

THIS is what has been missing from our game! Oh, Abby has tried, and at times been somewhat successful, but Mantha said it in his pre-game interview that consistency is what is expected. No one has offered a chance at consistency at this kind of game for the Red Wings in years. I am excited about seeing what kind of impact he will have in the years to come.

 

Perhaps I'm just seeing the diamond in the rough of this game. There was a lot to dislike about the Philly game. But I think Raffl showed us what we have lacked. He UNDRESSED Kyle Quincey and then beat Mrazek--who WAY overcommitted--on Philly's first score. He was pushing us around, scoring twice and threatening on several occasions. I marveled at his physical dominance in the first half of this game, and it brought to mind, again, the vacuum of physical play in our game.

 

But then I saw Mantha start to find his game. I wonder if he is the beginning of the answer; the answer the Wings have been looking for and not finding for some time. It seems our young rookies have added quite a set of skills that SHOULD round off our offensive game, and boost goal scoring and (PLEASE!) the power play. I think he may be a big piece of the answer, and I am excited for our future...especially as compared with this season. Here's to hoping that Mantha helps make this season a distant memory very soon. And while he MAY help us sneak above the line this season, that is FAR less important than changing our game and replacing the element that has been lost in the seasons to come.

 

Thank you, Kenny Holland, for resisting the temptation to deal this kid for short-term hope. Good call!

[yave1964]

He was held off the score sheet but both of his linemates, Pavel and Tats scored.

 

I watch a fair share of Griffin games, he started slow, as in glacial, but has found his scoring touch as the year has went on and most important cut down on dumb penalties. He could be Blake Wheeler which is not a bad thing. A big body who is impossible to move who has more than just size to his game. Glad to see him up.

  What a putrid game last night. Still almost pulled it out, a post here or there, Mason robbing Z, the game could have turned. Dont get me wrong the Flyers EARNED the victory by coming out and sticking it up the Wings rear end, they were fired up like we should have been. We were flat, by the time we decided to start playing we were down 2-0 at the end of the first and three times we pulled within one, but it was not enough.

  Columbus tomorrow, and that is where Mantha may prove his worth, Columbus is not the most talented team but they bang and contest the ice, Boone Jenner for one hits our boys and scores a goal a game it seems, lets see if Mantha can help offset some size in this one.

  Tonight I am a blackhawk fan in a big way.

[yave1964]

And one thing to keep in mind about Mantha, he lived in Blashills doghouse last year at GR. Every shift that he took off, every time he would glide down the ice Blash would yank him, take his power play time and give him fourth line minutes so Mantha knows he has a coach who has his number. That could be a very good thing for a kid who has a rep as being a bit of a dog. He has played so much better this year, like he gets what it takes to be a pro. Hoepfully a lot of that is the tough love he got from blash and it carries forward......

[mojo1917]

I thought Mantha looked dangerous each time he touched the puck...he seemed to be around the scoring areas...i'm sure the game was going a million miles an hour for him but I thought he looked very promising.  Huge, dangerous and promising.  

[SpikeDDS]

On March 16, 2016 at 2:31 PM, yave1964 said:

And one thing to keep in mind about Mantha, he lived in Blashills doghouse last year at GR. Every shift that he took off, every time he would glide down the ice Blash would yank him, take his power play time and give him fourth line minutes so Mantha knows he has a coach who has his number. That could be a very good thing for a kid who has a rep as being a bit of a dog. He has played so much better this year, like he gets what it takes to be a pro. Hoepfully a lot of that is the tough love he got from blash and it carries forward......

But part of me wonders if that "disfavor" (might not be the most accurate word choice) might have cost the Wings the streak. I'm not saying they should have brought Mantha up in the first half of this season. No, he needed to find his game. But after Jurco was sent back down to GR and played so well, and then came back up and was the same ol' Jurco he has always been, why not bump Matha up and move Jurco before the deadline?

 

Again, the skill set Mantha brings to the game is something no other Red Wing has--a big body that can score goals. We've got other Jurco's who are better than Jurco. I'd love Abby to convince me that he can be one of those guys, but he only does it sporadically, not consistently. Why did they wait so long?

[yave1964]

57 minutes ago, SpikeDDS said:

But part of me wonders if that "disfavor" (might not be the most accurate word choice) might have cost the Wings the streak. I'm not saying they should have brought Mantha up in the first half of this season. No, he needed to find his game. But after Jurco was sent back down to GR and played so well, and then came back up and was the same ol' Jurco he has always been, why not bump Matha up and move Jurco before the deadline?

 

Again, the skill set Mantha brings to the game is something no other Red Wing has--a big body that can score goals. We've got other Jurco's who are better than Jurco. I'd love Abby to convince me that he can be one of those guys, but he only does it sporadically, not consistently. Why did they wait so long?

I watch more than a fair share of GR games and have studied Mantha, his weaknesses in my opinion are:

Poor passer. Clearly demonstrated last night, he was hesitant and feathered passes instead of firing them, he was intercepted I dont know how many times.

 

Disinterest in defense. THIS  is the reason he was kept on the farm, he is always the trailer coming back, floating around center ice hoping the other four guys can handle things and someone can get the puck and hit him in stride on a breakaway. It works in Junior it does not work at the pro level. He has been better this year. Better but still not good.

  The Wings could use his offense,  he has to earn his ice time by playing at both ends of the ice. As disinterested as Pulkinnen can be in this regard, Mantha at GR has been as bad or worse.

  I have read enough interviews where he vows to prove the detractors wrong who say he is one dimensional and he sounds sincere. I hope Mantha dedicates himself and proves them wrong. Last night he was plain awful, every time he had the puck on his stick he froze, Dubinsky simply took it away from him twice and poor, soft passes that never made their target were the norm. He needs to go to the net and set up and let the other guys do there thing, at least until he builds confidence.

[SpikeDDS]

31 minutes ago, yave1964 said:

I watch more than a fair share of GR games and have studied Mantha, his weaknesses in my opinion are:

Poor passer. Clearly demonstrated last night, he was hesitant and feathered passes instead of firing them, he was intercepted I dont know how many times.

 

Disinterest in defense. THIS  is the reason he was kept on the farm, he is always the trailer coming back, floating around center ice hoping the other four guys can handle things and someone can get the puck and hit him in stride on a breakaway. It works in Junior it does not work at the pro level. He has been better this year. Better but still not good.

  The Wings could use his offense,  he has to earn his ice time by playing at both ends of the ice. As disinterested as Pulkinnen can be in this regard, Mantha at GR has been as bad or worse.

  I have read enough interviews where he vows to prove the detractors wrong who say he is one dimensional and he sounds sincere. I hope Mantha dedicates himself and proves them wrong. Last night he was plain awful, every time he had the puck on his stick he froze, Dubinsky simply took it away from him twice and poor, soft passes that never made their target were the norm. He needs to go to the net and set up and let the other guys do there thing, at least until he builds confidence.

Got it, and it makes better sense.

 

That's the frustrating thing about these kids like Pulkinnen and Mantha. You can see how they have very valuable potential skill sets. Skill sets that we need, because either they are rare to begin with or because we typically look for a more limited type of player--skill player vs. big body mucker. But there is a difference between potential and realized skill sets, and it is very hard to distinguish who's gonna realize their potential and who won't.

 

And with so few of these players within our system, it can be disappointing and frustrating when the one you are counting on to fill a hole that we have doesn't pan out. I feel that way with Pulks. It's like, "Dang it! Why can't ya just glance toward your own net every once in a while!" Although he hasn't exactly lit up the scoreboard as I was hoping he would.

 

AA, OTOH, I'm liking very much. I liked him this preseason, and thought he had every bit as good a preseason as Larkin, to be honest. But Larkin had all of the press buzz, so AA was almost an afterthought; a foregone conclusion. No chance at actually making the team at the beginning of the season, especially with Larkin making it. But he is, and I hope he continues to become, a force to be reckoned with.

 

I hear what you are saying about Mantha defensively, and hindsight is 20/20, but to me with the DISMAL PP we have had, and the consistent inability to score goals, I would have like to see Mantha activated earlier than he has been. Pulkinnen isn't making a difference. Jurco isn't either. We need to find someone who will. To bring him in now when we are perilously close to the line seems too little too late. Desperation should have been there a couple of weeks ago, if not a month.

 

Unless, of course, deep inside, the streak doesn't matter as much as the long-term does for the team leadership. Personally, I think ending the streak might be a good thing. I said so last year. I still say so. Not the end of the world. I know that is a hard sell to a guy like Z, who will have to live with the streak ending on his watch if it does, but it may actually be the best thing. Might be nice having close to a top-10 draft pick. Neato, eh?! So ESPECIALLY if the streak matters as much as it SEEMS to, I really don't understand why they waited as long as they have. Perhaps they are saying one thing but know deep down that ending the streak may actually be a good thing. After all, who wants to sneak in as the last wild card team only to have to face Washington? Show of hands? Didn't think so.

[notfondajane]

I'm curious, is this kid related to former Penguins and Sabres Moe Mantha?

[yave1964]

59 minutes ago, notfondajane said:

I'm curious, is this kid related to former Penguins and Sabres Moe Mantha?

No kin to Moe, but his Granddad is Andre Pronovost who won a slew of cups.

[notfondajane]

4 hours ago, yave1964 said:

No kin to Moe, but his Granddad is Andre Pronovost who won a slew of cups.

I m guessing he a cousin of former Penguins and Capital Jean Pronovost?

[flyercanuck]

Strike two!

[yave1964]

22 hours ago, notfondajane said:

I m guessing he a cousin of former Penguins and Capital Jean Pronovost?

No, no relation. Sorry.

[SpikeDDS]

@yave1964 @WingNut722

 

Hey yave, Glendening scored again. Second consecutive game. Right after your comments. Think he may read HF.net? ;-)

 

Back to Mantha.

 

Although not officially on the scorecard much, I DO think that Mantha has changed the game for us to more than a minor degree. Suddenly our PP has come more alive. (Not quite ready to say it's been fully resurrected, but Easter IS coming!) Datsyuk is starting to put it into that higher gear that he has. Tats is waking up some. I think they are feeding off of Mantha's net front presence. I think PK defenses are forced to focus more on Mantha in front of the net than just securing a perimeter like they have been able to do for most of this season. He has also had some pretty good non-PP quality scoring chances too, stretching the defenses out north-south some. I think that he adds a "new"--perhaps I should say "additional"--element to our game that was barely present before. His big 6'5" frame cannot be pushed around as easily nor can it be ignored. So even if he's not getting that assist, his screens are still helping us find nets and preventing easier saves.

 

although his defensive inadequacies may be legitimate, I think his offensive contributions more than offset his deficiencies, and CERTAINLY more than Pulks or Jurco's do. And this is even before he scores his first NHL goal. I think his impact is significant, and we've had two good games where we've been able to come back. I ALSO think it bodes well for the playoff setting. Not that I think Mantha alone makes the difference between being out of the playoffs and a long playoff run. No. But I do think his impact makes us a stronger playoff contender than pre-Mantha.

[SpikeDDS]

Just a follow-up:

 

Even though we lost the Montreal game last night, it did not go unnoticed that Mantha both scored another goal, but that it was one of the more FILTHY goals we have seen the Wings score in...well, years! I can't remember the last time we actually scored on a scrum play where we got--what was it?--6 or 7 whacks at the puck before it went in.

 

The is no question that Mantha has added and will continue to add net-front screens and goals from net-front scrums. The Red Wings needed this facet in their game like they need water! I'm thrilled and looking forward to,how we adapt our game to take advantage of his abilities and size.

 

I think next year we will see the young kids start to take over, Mantha included.