ScottM Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 With Pavel Datsyuk making his official announcement of his return to Russia this past Saturday, I've been thinking a bit about his legacy in the last few days. I always enjoyed watching him play, and always considered him a bit underrated. He never seemed to get a lot of love from voters when it came to first and second all-star teams, but a guy that was good enough defensively to deservedly win three Selkes, while still being good enough offensively to post multiple 80 and 90 point seasons is due a bit of respect. I decided I'd post this thread here rather than the history forum because I wanted to be sure that our native Wings thread saw it and have their say since we have some outstanding posters in that group. My question to you is, when Datsyuk is compared to other Wings centers, where will he rank? I'd say Yzerman is pretty unassailable in first and that Sid Abel is a pretty clear second in my opinion, but how does he stack up against guys like Delvecchio, Fedorov, and Ullman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Great player, the way he left will absolutely tarnish his legacy and right now I am still too bitter to think of what his legacy is. @ScottM ask me again in a year, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted June 24, 2016 Author Share Posted June 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, yave1964 said: Great player, the way he left will absolutely tarnish his legacy Kovalchuk, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDDS Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 4 hours ago, yave1964 said: Great player, the way he left will absolutely tarnish his legacy and right now I am still too bitter to think of what his legacy is. @ScottM ask me again in a year, lol. Any of the bitters gone away after today's RIDICULOUS trade, @yave1964?! The perfect antidote, I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingNut722 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 There aren't many times when I disagree with @yave1964 but this is one of them. I don't think this will leave a lasting mark on his legacy. Yzerman, Howe, Lidstrom, they all left Detroit with a perfect record as it were, but Pavel graduates with an A-. Pavel did not come to this decision lightly, and he has accepted full responsibility for as much as he can in this difficult event. He bowed out as much of a gentleman as you can. Hindsight is 20/20, and now we all realize that Pavel probably shouldn't have signed a 3-year deal, two years ago, but we're all human, and life happens. This is not an ideal way to leave your team, but given his professional report card, I think if anyone deserves this kind of consideration, it's Pasha. @ScottM I apologize for not answering your original question, but I don't think I could put together a numerical ranking for this kind of thing. I'm not going to get into the discussion of whether his number should be retired, but he will certainly be revered in Hockeytown for a very long time, and this little early exit will be forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 @WingNut722 Just frustrated with the way he went out. Holland fixed a lot of that, now if Stamkos and Fowler lead us to a few cups all will be forgiven and forgotten, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingNut722 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 1 hour ago, yave1964 said: @WingNut722 now if Stamkos and Fowler lead us to a few cups all will be forgiven and forgotten, lol. Oh, is that all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samifan Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I will always remember Datsyuk for his time in Arizona as a Coyote <NINJA>. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDDS Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 On June 24, 2016 at 1:36 PM, ScottM said: With Pavel Datsyuk making his official announcement of his return to Russia this past Saturday, I've been thinking a bit about his legacy in the last few days. I always enjoyed watching him play, and always considered him a bit underrated. He never seemed to get a lot of love from voters when it came to first and second all-star teams, but a guy that was good enough defensively to deservedly win three Selkes, while still being good enough offensively to post multiple 80 and 90 point seasons is due a bit of respect. I decided I'd post this thread here rather than the history forum because I wanted to be sure that our native Wings thread saw it and have their say since we have some outstanding posters in that group. My question to you is, when Datsyuk is compared to other Wings centers, where will he rank? I'd say Yzerman is pretty unassailable in first and that Sid Abel is a pretty clear second in my opinion, but how does he stack up against guys like Delvecchio, Fedorov, and Ullman? Really good question. And I think it will strongly depend on how much weight you give to players like him for takeaways and D, because that plus his unbelievable stick handling skills is what set him apart more than anything else. It is hard for me to say it, because I don't LIKE Sergei Fedorov as much as I like Datsyuk, but I think Fedorov was a more dynamic player than Datsyuk was. Fedorov could just take over a game. Pav's done it too, but when you've got HOFers like Shanahan and Yzerman saying they've never played with someone who can take over a game like that--remembering of course that they didn't play with Gretzky--I think it speaks volumes. I think at the peak of his career, Fedorov was a better, more dominant player than Datsyuk was at the peak of his. I would say to retire Datsyuk's number before Fedorov's, because he was and remains a Red Wing forever in the NHL. I DO think Datsyuk is a HOFer. He changed shootouts for the better, and even at his old age, he was always close to leading the league in takeaways. I've never seen anyone better at that than him. I say Detroit should retire #13 because he was a superstar player and will remain a Detroit legend, despite @yave1964's current bitterness funk, which I know he will eventually get over. Tincture of time on that. Fedorov will have a much harder time getting his #91 retired because he left for the $. He was full of himself. Datsyuk contrasted Fedorov in that regard. A VERY humble player. That's why I like him better, and why I still carry more angst with Fedorov than I ever will with Pav. Yzerman, Abel, Fedorov, Datsyuk, Ullman, Larionov, Zetterberg. I may be missing a few in the middle, but that's my order of these names. Ullman and Larionov are close and could be switched. If we are going by which ones I LIKED best, Fedorov drops significantly from where he is. His talent/giftedness demand that I place him where he is on the first list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 @SpikeDDS and @WingNut722 I will get over it, lol, moving on. IDK where I rank Dats all time among Wing centers, right around where I rank Federov, maybe slightly above. Like Spike, I rank him behind Stevie and Abel, but also behind the largely forgotten Alex Delvecchio who played 24 years with the Wings mostly down the middle, moving off to the wing late career. Delvecchio won 3 cups and appeared in 5 other finals, replaced the aging Abel on the production line, a class act, like Datsyuk he regularly placed high in the Lady Bing voting, winning it three times. So for me, top 5: Yzerman, Abel, Delvecchio, Datsyuk, Federov. One hell of a list. Ullman was possibly the greatest defensive center of his day, either he or Davey Keon. Then he went to Toronto and reinvented himself as a brilliant two way center. Not too many players with his type of career. I currently have him 6 with Zetterberg one good year from passing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 I guess I might be little higher on Ullman than some. I personally find a bit of a logjam with him, Fedorov, and Datsyuk, with Delvecchio just a hair behind. As far as their Wings careers go, I don't have Larionov quite as high since he arrived relatively late, but if you look at his full career, he's right up there. The guys I have a hard time separating are those three though. In a lot of ways, I see their games as being quite similar, and I consider their performances in those similar styles to be quite similar. That's one of those questions that I might give a different answer to depending on what day you ask me. Btw, I do agree that Datsyuk is a HOF'er. If he's not, something's very, very wrong. He compares well to current HOF'ers, as I think this conversation demonstrates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingNut722 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 23 hours ago, Samifan said: I will always remember Datsyuk for his time in Arizona as a Coyote <NINJA>. Somehow I feel his point production for the 'Yotes will be a bit low this season............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Datsyuk's new legacy. http://www.khl.ru/news/2016/08/20/315923.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 14 hours ago, hf101 said: Datsyuk's new legacy. http://www.khl.ru/news/2016/08/20/315923.html Does anyone else find it ironic that the name isn't in Cyrillic characters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 damn........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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