MrDanglez67 Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 1.Erik Karlsson 2.Drew Doughty 3.Duncan Keith 4.Pk Subban 5.Shea weber 6.Brent Burns 7.Victor Hedman 8.Roman Josi 9.Kris Letang 10.Oliver Ekman-Larsson 11.Alex Pietrangelo 12.Ryan Suter 13.Mark Giordano 14.Justin Faulk 15.Ryan McDonagh 16.Dustin Byfuglien 17.T.J Brodie 18.Brent Seabrook 19.John Klingberg 20.Shayne Gostisbehere 21.John Carlson 22.Aaron Ekblad 23.Marc-Edouard Vlasic 24.Keith Yandle 25.Tyson Barrie 26.Adam Larsson 27.Morgan Rielly 28.Jake Muzzin 29.Niklas Hjalmarsson 30.Hampus Lindholm Honourable Mentions:Kevin Shattenkirk,Jacob Trouba,Seth Jones,Matthias Ekholm,Ryan Ellis,Cam fowler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I have NO CLUE what criteria is used to determine these rankings (popularity???), but I find it funny that in the "Top 10" alone, there are at least FOUR defensemen who can be considered defensive liabilities (Karlsson, Subban, Burns, Letang). Granted...those guys also put up the offensive numbers to make people forget that they are average to MAYBE above average actual DEFENDERS, but still, I just find it a bit humorous when "top defensemen" and guys whose defense isn't their primary strength are put in the same bracket. No shortage of Norris candidates here, eh? Oh, don't me wrong...not saying I wouldn't like to have some of those guys playing for my team (Hedman is up there at #7, but even I don't think he is the Bolts' best player at playing actual defense (that would be Anton Stralman), but he is close enough. Looking further down the list, MORE guys who are offense first, defense second, and reading coverage third IMO: #13 Mark Giordano #16 Dustin Byfuglien #25 Tyson Barrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 my question is this list true rankings as a defender or is this for fantasy league rankings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDanglez67 Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 1 hour ago, pilldoc said: my question is this list true rankings as a defender or is this for fantasy league rankings? No they are just my personal rankings. They have nothing to do with fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 7 minutes ago, MrDanglez67 said: No they are just my personal rankings. They have nothing to do with fantasy. Ahh, ok. Well, in that case, there is no real 'right' or 'wrong' here. You can rank them as you see them. Opinions may differ, but no one can say you are "wrong", per se. I thought this was some concocted list done by some smarmy know-it-all analyst, using some needlessly complicated formula who insists this IS the way it is and nothing else matters. Way too many of those characters floating around the airwaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDanglez67 Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 Yea lol I'm definitely not an analytics guy but I like to think I know quite a bit about hockey. In terms of fantasy I just draft my teams in terms of the best players usually and don't dig too deep into the numbers. Probably why I can't crack the top three in my pool lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, MrDanglez67 said: Yea lol I'm definitely not an analytics guy but I like to think I know quite a bit about hockey. In terms of fantasy I just draft my teams in terms of the best players usually and don't dig too deep into the numbers. Probably why I can't crack the top three in my pool lol. We are looking for GM's for the HF.net Fantasy League ...... are you interested? Always looking for new members to get involved. Shoot me a PM with your e-mail address and I can get you set up. More info may be found here: http://www.hockeyforums.net/fantasy/hf.net-fhl/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 22 minutes ago, MrDanglez67 said: Yea lol I'm definitely not an analytics guy but I like to think I know quite a bit about hockey. In terms of fantasy I just draft my teams in terms of the best players usually and don't dig too deep into the numbers. Probably why I can't crack the top three in my pool lol. I've never believed in a straight up rankings list (I am a baseball fan too and baseball people LOVE doing those, but errrr, not me....hah), because so many variables come into play. However, I DO have a sense where I feel guys should be...I.E. maybe a top 10 list, with no real particular order, or at least groups that can be divided into (if we are talking D-men for instance), offense first guys, defense first guys, or real time stat first guys (hits, blocked shots). Given that, and just off the top of my head, I can give you a top three of sorts (my opinion of course) Offense first guys-- Erik Karlsson...hands down, Brent Burns, close second due to the fact he is also a freight train and creates his OWN offensive space, and Kris Letang--Braindead plays aside, the guy CAN fire the puck, skates well, and always has his nose around the net looking for that goal or a teammate ready to score one, getting himself a helper. Defense first guys-- Ryan Suter, very underrated, he is the definition of 'can do it all', Shea Weber...yes, Suter's former partner hits, defends well, does his share of blocking shots, plays against the other team's best, and still comes up with offense, Jake Muzzin....not many know about the LA Kings D-man, but I think, in the coming years, his responsibility in his own zone, combined with his penchant for getting pucks out to his forwards quickly, will make people realize THIS is the kind of guy you want guarding your blue line. Real time stat types? Weber once again for reasons mentioned. I believe he has slowed a step or two, but still good enough to outplay many of the league's d-men at THEIR best. Drew Doughty...all around guy, does it all, kinda like Suter, but maybe with a bit more edge. Duncan Keith, ditto. Again, those are just off the top of my head, and my own personal evaluation of them. If I were to sit and really look around the league, I can probably be more comprehensive, though I would likely still refrain from giving a guy a straight up #1, 2, 3, 4, etc, ranking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I have to admit I'm lost at that old "PK Subban is bad at defense" line we keep hearing. When looking at results delivered in terms of shot suppression, Subban has been: 2011 - 1st pairing 2012 - 1st pairing 2013 - 1st pairing 2014 - 1st pairing 2015 - 1st pairing 2016 - 2nd pairing From day one, he's been top pairing quality at stopping forwards from getting chances. The top 5 guys he's played against for his career: Phil Kessel - 175 min against. 2.71 GF/60 vs Subban, 2.77 against other comp. Patrice Bergeron - 143 min against. 0.84 GF/60 vs Subban, 2.85 other comp Brad Marchand - 134 min against, 0.89 GF/60 vs Subban, 2.85 other comp Alex Ovechkin, 120 min against, 3.51 GF/60 vs Subban, 2.57 other comp (lit up PK) Eric Staal, 118 min against, 0.00 GF/60 vs Subban, 2.48 other comp He plays against the toughest competition in the east, suppresses their offensive chances at a level expected of a top pairing defenseman, and has limited their scoring to a great degree, except in the case of the guy who is one of the few greatest goal scorers in the history of the game. PK Subban is NOT a defensive liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 19 hours ago, JR Ewing said: I have to admit I'm lost at that old "PK Subban is bad at defense" line we keep hearing. When looking at results delivered in terms of shot suppression, Subban has been: 2011 - 1st pairing 2012 - 1st pairing 2013 - 1st pairing 2014 - 1st pairing 2015 - 1st pairing 2016 - 2nd pairing From day one, he's been top pairing quality at stopping forwards from getting chances. The top 5 guys he's played against for his career: Phil Kessel - 175 min against. 2.71 GF/60 vs Subban, 2.77 against other comp. Patrice Bergeron - 143 min against. 0.84 GF/60 vs Subban, 2.85 other comp Brad Marchand - 134 min against, 0.89 GF/60 vs Subban, 2.85 other comp Alex Ovechkin, 120 min against, 3.51 GF/60 vs Subban, 2.57 other comp (lit up PK) Eric Staal, 118 min against, 0.00 GF/60 vs Subban, 2.48 other comp He plays against the toughest competition in the east, suppresses their offensive chances at a level expected of a top pairing defenseman, and has limited their scoring to a great degree, except in the case of the guy who is one of the few greatest goal scorers in the history of the game. PK Subban is NOT a defensive liability. I think he is good defensively. But Suter is better defensively than Subban the way Subban is better offensively than Suter. They are close enough to be a wash to me. At a glance. McDonagh is too high on that list. Ekman Larsson is better than Weber now. not sure how Shattenkirk gets an honorable mention while Yandle makes the cut. OMG, someone else realizes Vlasic's value!! Hjalmarsson? Love him, but not sure I rank him there. He is kind of like Vlasic with 10-20 less points. Morgan Reilly? maybe in a few years. Same with Trouba. Ristolainen might powerjump into this list' top 15 next year. Seems like several "Maybe when they break out" guys. I'd start a separate list for guys with potential rather than rank them over some of the names here. I do like Muzzin. Glad Seabrook gets some love. Shame he produces so well when Keith is out of the lineup, but defers to him when Keith is healthy. he was nearly a PPG player when Keith was injured. Keith was out between injuring himself Oct 17th's game and came back Nov 14th....and Seriously, Seabrook scored 11 points in 10 games. Other than that, he had inconsistent spurts with 9-10 multipoint 2-3 point games, but streaks of scorelessness that drove Fantasy owners NUTS. He scored 19 points in is first 23 games, then 30 points in the next 60 games. I have a sort list of guys who blow up the moon scoring for the first 25 games in fantasy then go more quiet than my kids during Paw patrol. Rookies and kids excluded usually since they are prone to coming in all excited and blowing their wad of energy in the first 20 games before they realize it is an 82 game season and get tired as me after 10 drinks. Yes, that's right Hanzal, Boedker and Plekanec, I am no longer fooled! And HAHA to whoever picked up Beauchemin last year after 10 games. Mind you, a guy who broke the trend this year was Atkinson. Tortorella turns projections upside down. I also have a long list of strong 2nd half players, but that is not one I share. Go look it up yourselves you thieves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDanglez67 Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 1 hour ago, J0e Th0rnton said: I think he is good defensively. But Suter is better defensively than Subban the way Subban is better offensively than Suter. They are close enough to be a wash to me. At a glance. McDonagh is too high on that list. Ekman Larsson is better than Weber now. not sure how Shattenkirk gets an honorable mention while Yandle makes the cut. OMG, someone else realizes Vlasic's value!! Hjalmarsson? Love him, but not sure I rank him there. He is kind of like Vlasic with 10-20 less points. Morgan Reilly? maybe in a few years. Same with Trouba. Ristolainen might powerjump into this list' top 15 next year. Seems like several "Maybe when they break out" guys. I'd start a separate list for guys with potential rather than rank them over some of the names here. I do like Muzzin. Glad Seabrook gets some love. Shame he produces so well when Keith is out of the lineup, but defers to him when Keith is healthy. he was nearly a PPG player when Keith was injured. Keith was out between injuring himself Oct 17th's game and came back Nov 14th....and Seriously, Seabrook scored 11 points in 10 games. Other than that, he had inconsistent spurts with 9-10 multipoint 2-3 point games, but streaks of scorelessness that drove Fantasy owners NUTS. He scored 19 points in is first 23 games, then 30 points in the next 60 games. I have a sort list of guys who blow up the moon scoring for the first 25 games in fantasy then go more quiet than my kids during Paw patrol. Rookies and kids excluded usually since they are prone to coming in all excited and blowing their wad of energy in the first 20 games before they realize it is an 82 game season and get tired as me after 10 drinks. Yes, that's right Hanzal, Boedker and Plekanec, I am no longer fooled! And HAHA to whoever picked up Beauchemin last year after 10 games. Mind you, a guy who broke the trend this year was Atkinson. Tortorella turns projections upside down. I also have a long list of strong 2nd half players, but that is not one I share. Go look it up yourselves you thieves! If mcdonagh were to move down it wouldn't be more than 2-3 spots. And the only reason shatty isn't on the list is becuz I forgot about him originally and was just too lazy to switch up my list lol. But he would be around Yandle and Barrie. Vlasic is definitely underrated but I don't think he should have made team canada over subban same goes for Muzzin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 11 minutes ago, MrDanglez67 said: If mcdonagh were to move down it wouldn't be more than 2-3 spots. And the only reason shatty isn't on the list is becuz I forgot about him originally and was just too lazy to switch up my list lol. But he would be around Yandle and Barrie. Vlasic is definitely underrated but I don't think he should have made team canada over subban same goes for Muzzin. Subban losing the spot to Vlasic had less to do with personal skill than it did with role and handedness. Playing a right handed Dman on the left is usually a recipe for disaster. All their muscle memory is wrong causing them to have to think for a second instead of simply acting instantly and it affects puck retrieval in a big way due to reversal of forehand and backhand on sides for clearing. Subban is obviously better offensively. But Vlasic is the best defensive Dman in the league and one of the best puck movers. Effortless retrieval and instantly makes the best play via pass or skating ala Lidstrom lite. Perfect to pair with a right handed Doughty.and they actually looked like a perfect pair to be honest. I have rarely seen 2 Dmen play in such harmony. Babcock knew what he was doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 NHL Networks top 20 list. Surprisingly no Giordano on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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