Who's this Couturier guy anyway?

[icehole]

3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Can you just change your handle to "I_Hate_Couturier" and get it over with?

 

We know you don't like him and I can respect that.  We get it.  There are certain players I haven't liked.  When the put on the orange and black I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes, it's just hard.  

 

But some of us are trying to discuss things a little more deeply.  Some of us like talking about the systems and advanced analytics and why they might or might not be resulting in goals.  We get that you don't like him.  

I'm just having a little fun with it.

 

I'm also trying to point out that threads like these get me going a little.  It doesn't matter that he had 20 points like a month ago, since he's got some points in junk time, he's good to go.  Nothing against the OP, but I wanted to chime in.

 

Commence with the analytics 

[flyerrod]

29 minutes ago, King Knut said:

There are certain players I haven't liked.  When the put on the orange and black I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes, it's just hard.

Please say hello to MacDud and Wiese for me........both have exceeded their allotted benefits although Weise is looking more useful as of late.

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, flyerrod said:

Please say hello to MacDud and Wiese for me........both have exceeded their allotted benefits although Weise is looking more useful as of late.

 

Wiese finally looks like the guy he was brought here to be.  

 

I don't blame hextall for signing him.  It made sense based on the player he was.  WHy it took him this long to look like that player and whether that player is going to stick around, who knows.

 

MacDonald is another one I have never really minded.  His deal was atrocious and the hatred of of him because of that I can sympathize with.

 

But when he first got here he was actually pretty good and greatly benefitted the play driving aspect of the team.  What happened after that was confusing.  Last year was last year and the infamous legend was born.

 

But this year he's become a positive force.  Granted, his play has been worthy of a #4-6D, not the #2 he's been asked to play or that he's been getting paid for, but none the less, he's been better.  If I divorce myself from his contract and the past two years, I don't hate him.  He's just a useful player (finally).  But I understand that some people can't divorce those things and that would make me hate him too.

 

Here's the first off the top of my head example of a guy I hated.  Matt Carle.  I hated the deal that brought him here and I hated the player for his first year. I shredded him constantly.  Then he was paired with Pronger and was a very good D man for us.  I changed my tune.  

 

 

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, icehole said:

I'm just having a little fun with it.

 

I'm also trying to point out that threads like these get me going a little.  It doesn't matter that he had 20 points like a month ago, since he's got some points in junk time, he's good to go.  Nothing against the OP, but I wanted to chime in.

 

Commence with the analytics 

 

Chime away!  I was just being a pain in the butt for some reason.  reflex sometimes.  

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, Podein25 said:

 

Ok, gotchya. I woulda thought they woulda figured this hitting-a-guy-while-he's-moving thing a bit earlier.

 

And how does a pro hockey player manage to hit Sean Couturier in the feet with a pass, or put it behind him?!

He's practically a stationary target for chrissake!!

 

- You'd have thought so, right?  They had it down in the first few weeks, problem was it resulted in a ton of goals against because no one was covering their own end.  or those that were were doing so incompetently.  Now they're trying again.

 

-And Couturier being stationary (or Giroux, or Voracek or Simmonds or Schenn for that matter) has been the team's problem all year.  Especially at even strength (though they're not terribly good at moving on the PP either, they just force a lot of stuff with Simmer and Schenn getting greasy).   Coming out of their own D zone has really been the flaw all year.  They don't make defending difficult.  They're slow out of their zone and defenses get set up and cover their transition so the Flyers resort to dumping and cycling and trying to get a pass back to MDZ, Streit, Provo or Ghost.   Now they're actually attempting to make advancing passes again.  Guys like Couturier (and Giroux and Jake and Simmer and Schenn) are moving when they start to play offense.  It's almost like they're trying to play hockey finally.  

 

 

[Podein25]

11 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

- You'd have thought so, right?  They had it down in the first few weeks, problem was it resulted in a ton of goals against because no one was covering their own end.  or those that were were doing so incompetently.  Now they're trying again.

 

-And Couturier being stationary (or Giroux, or Voracek or Simmonds or Schenn for that matter) has been the team's problem all year.  Especially at even strength (though they're not terribly good at moving on the PP either, they just force a lot of stuff with Simmer and Schenn getting greasy).   Coming out of their own D zone has really been the flaw all year.  They don't make defending difficult.  They're slow out of their zone and defenses get set up and cover their transition so the Flyers resort to dumping and cycling and trying to get a pass back to MDZ, Streit, Provo or Ghost.   Now they're actually attempting to make advancing passes again.  Guys like Couturier (and Giroux and Jake and Simmer and Schenn) are moving when they start to play offense.  It's almost like they're trying to play hockey finally.  

 

 

 

This is an interesting discussion. One of the things that I liked about Lavvy was that he was a big north-south guy. He was probably on the leading edge of new coaching strategies to do that, which everybody now does. So is Hakstol just learning the pro game still? Did the movement toward a very north-south focus not reach the NCAA?

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, Podein25 said:

 

This is an interesting discussion. One of the things that I liked about Lavvy was that he was a big north-south guy. He was probably on the leading edge of new coaching strategies to do that, which everybody now does. So is Hakstol just learning the pro game still? Did the movement toward a very north-south focus not reach the NCAA?

 

I genuinely think that they tried to implement Hakstol's system at the beginning of the year. VERY north south if our recall.  Lots of offense. Lots of goals.  VERY poor defensive coverage.  Lots of goals against. 

 

In essence I think the team and the players weren't there to play the system yet.  

 

Mac took a third of the season to settle in to however good he is now (aka just not terrible). 

 

All season I have been whining about not seeing more of Schultz. He would have helped even out the pairings and enable better sharing of roles. But then what do you do?  Not play your A in Streit?  Bench MDZ who you're trying to deal if possible?  Bench MacDonald (the one guy under contract for next year that you hope Vegas does draft but who needs to play 40 games to qualify? 

 

My my best guess is that Hak and Hextall knew they had to play certain guys that inhibited the team's ability to play the system Hak envisioned.  Over the course of the season Mac actually improved to the point where playing him over Manning and Schultz made sense in its own without the 40 games excuse (kind of a low bar really). 

 

Essentially they have been playing the long game for the past two years.  

 

Even now, it's only partially working. Some nights it falls completely flat becaus e Ghost and Provo are still green (yes even Provo makes mistakes) Ma is still pretty meh, Manning and Schultz aren't fantastic and Gudas is kinda sorta pretty good getting better at his role. 

 

No matter what, I think there's sufficient evidence to suggest that it's not just Hak figuring it out now.  I think they tried and couldn't muster it before.  Now they're dipping toes in trying again. 

 

Replacing MDZ with a stay at home guy and being able to carry Mac as your #7 or even send him back to the Phantoms will help next year even more. 

 

Its just my POV but t I've been saying it for a while.  The Improved offense of late isn't disproving it-that's about the best I can say at this point. 

 

[hf101]

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