Winnipeg Jets offseason review

[yave1964]

2016-17 A QUICK GLANCE BACK: 

  Hopes were high that with new blood in phenom Patrik Laine and other talented youngsters such as Nikolaj Ehlers and Josh Morrissey and the net being turned over to Connor Hellebuyck that the Jets would get back to playoff contention. It didnt happen.

  Mark Scheifele put his brand on the team as he was dynamic and established himself as one of the games top young centers, Laine was better than advertised and fought with Auston Matthews of Toronto all year to see who was the leagues top rookie, Ehlers was solid, same with Morrissey.

  The problem seemed to be two fold, the goaltending was borderline criminal at times and the lack of any true cohesion among the defense..

  Connor Hellebuyck gave way to a platoon with the immortal Michael Hutchinson for much of the year with neither doing anything to claim the job, Ondrej Pavelec, dead and buried in the AHL was recalled, did not much of anything and then was injured, Hellboy more or less given the job again by default down the stretch as the team stumbled, fumbled and bumbled into April.

  As far as veterans, Toby Enstrom continued to slip offensively, Tyler Myers cannot stay healthy, same as Mark Stuart. Between the three of them the defense missed a whopping 133 games and that is not counting the 22 games missed by Jacob Trouba who held out to start the year. Morrissey and Big Buff seemed to be the only constants all year on the back end. The hope is a healthy season among the defense will give the young netminder a bit more confidence.

  Blake Wheeler was his usual underrated solid self, Bryan Little put up solid numbers upon returning from injury. really the forwards were solid all year.

  They never got it going, they finished 39-35-7 and never really seemed to be in the race, always half a dozen points out just waiting on the streak that never came. Somehow Paul Maurice is still the coach.

 

FREE AGENTS: 

 

Ondrej Pavelec: it appears that the long national nightmare is soon to be over as he either signs with another organization or is exiled to Siberia.

 

Chris Thorburn: went from prospect to suspect to why the hell is this guy still on the team years ago. finally time to cut bait.

 

Paul Postma: Original Jets seem to stick around forever, along with fellow original Thorburn and Pavelec his days are likely done.

1)

Nothing that they cannot get by without. 

 

OFFSEASON QUESTIONS

 

1) IS HELLEBUYCK THE ANSWER IN NET?

I personally believe he needs to be given a 55-60 start season with a healthy cohesive defensive unit in front of him before passing judgement. I believe that entering last season he was rated more or less even with John Gibson who established himself as a regular on a SC contender in Anaheim playing behind a top tier healthy defense. Helelbuyck needs and deserves the same shot.

 

2) LAINE, EHLERS, IS THAT THEIR CEILING? 

 May as well throw in Scheifele into the question as well. Laine will be 19 this year, Ehlers 21 and Scheifele 24, all were brilliant last season and have tremendous upsides. The question is how much more do they have to offer? At their age it is likely that they havent hit their top end yet. Scheifele could end up leading the league in scoring, Laine hit 50 goals and Ehlers provide the perfect complimentary piece for a decade. Any team would be thrilled to have any one of them, to have all three on one roster is criminal. 

 

3)WHAT TO DO ABOUT JACOB TROUBA?

His name is popping up in trade rumors again, he clearly does not like the Manitoba winters but he can play. He has shown some offensive abilities and is not shy with the body either hitting or blocking shots and is 22 years old, in other words the definition of what a team wants in a defenseman. 

  The problem is he really does not want to be there and comes across as a bit of a jerk about it, The Jets hold all of the cards-for now but not forever. IMHO as badly as they need a happy satisfied Trouba they do not need the distraction. It may be time to consider moving him.

 

4) HOW LONG DOES PAUL MAURICE KEEP HIS JOB? I thought he was a gonner for certain after missing the postseason again, at this point it cannot be long. If the team gets off to a sluggish start he almost certainly will not make it past the quarter turn of the season.

 

 A talented team that plays hard but seems to be missing something, If the kids take a step back they may be a lottery team, if they take a step forward they may be real and true contenders. and what to do about Trouba.

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

5) HOW MUCH LONGER CAN THE JETS DODGE THE PLAYOFFS?

 

The Jets are the most impressive team in the NHL... at avoiding the playoffs. Even the Leafs and Oilers occasionally get there and go on a run. 

 

1986-87 was the last time the Jets advanced past the first round of the playoffs.  

[notfondajane]

In all honesty, let's move this team back to Atlanta and reward Winnipeg a expansion team! 

Give it to an owner who would give a hoot!

[Podein25]

3 hours ago, notfondajane said:

In all honesty, let's move this team back to Atlanta and reward Winnipeg a expansion team! 

Give it to an owner who would give a hoot!

 

Are you saying the current ownership group doesn't give a ****?

[notfondajane]

4 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

Are you saying the current ownership group doesn't give a ****?

I'm saying that if this team is moved back to Atlanta and Winnipeg gets an expansion team, make sure that the New owners give a darn! 

[WordsOfWisdom]

On 6/19/2017 at 10:06 AM, notfondajane said:

In all honesty, let's move this team back to Atlanta and reward Winnipeg a expansion team! 

 

I think Jets fans need a clean slate.

 

A quick look at the history of this franchise:

1. The Jets (version 1.0) rarely made the playoffs and never did anything when they got there.
2. The team moves to Phoenix in 1996 to become the Coyotes (arguably the least successful franchise in the NHL since that time).
3. The Thrashers enter the league (~2000?) and suck horribly for their entire existence.
4. The Thrashers are relocated to Winnipeg (to become the Jets version 2.0)... and haven't made the playoffs in the four or five years since being back here.

 

Whether you go by the Jets/Coyotes data or the Thrashers/Jets data, this franchise (in either incarnation) has to have the lowest winning percentage in the NHL out of all 30 franchises. That is truly remarkable and I'm wondering how much longer the ownership can get away with it before the building empties out. 

 

 

[Podein25]

43 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

I'm wondering how much longer the ownership can get away with it before the building empties out. 

 

Probably awhile yet. 

[notfondajane]

3 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

I think Jets fans need a clean slate.

 

A quick look at the history of this franchise:

1. The Jets (version 1.0) rarely made the playoffs and never did anything when they got there.
2. The team moves to Phoenix in 1996 to become the Coyotes (arguably the least successful franchise in the NHL since that time).
3. The Thrashers enter the league (~2000?) and suck horribly for their entire existence.
4. The Thrashers are relocated to Winnipeg (to become the Jets version 2.0)... and haven't made the playoffs in the four or five years since being back here.

 

Whether you go by the Jets/Coyotes data or the Thrashers/Jets data, this franchise (in either incarnation) has to have the lowest winning percentage in the NHL out of all 30 franchises. That is truly remarkable and I'm wondering how much longer the ownership can get away with it before the building empties out. 

 

 

I'm curious if the owner of this team are using it as some sort of tax deduction? (Ed DeBartalo Sr. Did this when he owned the Pens in the mid 80s.)

[notfondajane]

2 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

Probably awhile yet. 

Though I don't want to see this because of Jane (train bitch) Fonda, let Ted Turner but the team back and hope he could make a winner of this team! 

[Podein25]

2 hours ago, notfondajane said:

Though I don't want to see this because of Jane (train bitch) Fonda, let Ted Turner but the team back and hope he could make a winner of this team! 

 

You think the main problem with the Jets is the lack of money/spending on the part of the owners?

[notfondajane]

1 hour ago, Podein25 said:

 

You think the main problem with the Jets is the lack of money/spending on the part of the owners?

It's possible! I believe that the stadium holds just under 15000! 

Money coming maybe the problem! (I am not sure how deep the Jets ownership pockets are!) The owners may be using the team as a tax write off. (If that is possible in Canada.) Ed DeBartolo Sr. Did that with the Pens in the mid to late 80s.

[Podein25]

5 minutes ago, notfondajane said:

It's possible! I believe that the stadium holds just under 15000! 

Money coming maybe the problem! (I am not sure how deep the Jets ownership pockets are!) The owners may be using the team as a tax write off. (If that is possible in Canada.) Ed DeBartolo Sr. Did that with the Pens in the mid to late 80s.

 

Yeah it's a small arena, but the Jets make money. The owner is Canada's richest person, so I don't think cash flow is a problem. So, from a hockey perspective, what do you think the Jets should do?

[notfondajane]

2 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Yeah it's a small arena, but the Jets make money. The owner is Canada's richest person, so I don't think cash flow is a problem. So, from a hockey perspective, what do you think the Jets should do?

Maybe better management? Maybe scouting personnel? (Guessing on both)

[yave1964]

My two cents....

 

Same as the Red Wings, too loyal to entirely too many borderline players. I get continuity but c'mon, look how many players from the ATLANTA THRASHERS who still appeared with the Jets last year:

 

Thorburn

Little

Postma

Big Buff

Enstrom

Wheeler

Pavelec

Stuart

Burmistrov

 

 This is off the top of my head, not sure if Cormier appeared with the big club but he is still with Manitoba if not. 

 

The Wings have done the same thing with Abdelkader, Helm, Ericsson, Kronwall, at some point you have to make clinical surgical decisions on what is best for the organization. Loyalty has its place and it is a good sign that they allowed Thorburn to leave to the Knights and Postma and Pavelec are UFA this year and Burmistrov has been shipped out. At some point you have to move on if a player proves to be ordinary you try to replace him instead of literally icing half the old Thrashers in a game. Loyalty has its place and I get it that Manitoba is a difficult place to get players willing to come to but Winnipeg is a beautiful city in a beautiful if isolated part of the world, even if you have to grow your own superstars it should not be that difficult to market for bottom six forwards and bottom pair defenseman. 

[WordsOfWisdom]

18 hours ago, notfondajane said:

I'm curious if the owner of this team are using it as some sort of tax deduction? (Ed DeBartalo Sr. Did this when he owned the Pens in the mid 80s.)

 

I think they're too comfortable. It's the old adage of: "We're a Canadian-based team, therefore we don't have to win to make money."

 

If you know that the fans are going to show up whether you win or lose it really takes the pressure off. ie: The urgency to build a winner. In other cities, owners that don't ice a winning team will lose everything. 

 

It's great that hockey is strong in Winnipeg and the fans are great. I always knew they were. I just find it sad that they're not rewarded for their loyalty. The Oilers and Leafs have peaks and troughs. The Jets only have troughs. 

 

[Podein25]

37 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

The Jets only have troughs. 

 

I know when I tell you that the Jets were the "most successful team in the short-lived WHA" (Wiki) you will say: "but I'm talking about the NHL." Except you want to conflate the experience of two different teams in that statement, which is also unfair. 

 

Let's just judge the Jets 2.0 since the crappy Atlanta team moved to Winnipeg. It is sad enough: one playoff appearance in 5 years. Carry on.

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

24 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

I know when I tell you that the Jets were the "most successful team in the short-lived WHA" (Wiki) you will say: "but I'm talking about the NHL." Except you want to conflate the experience of two different teams in that statement, which is also unfair. 

 

Let's just judge the Jets 2.0 since the crappy Atlanta team moved to Winnipeg. It is sad enough: one playoff appearance in 5 years. Carry on.

 

 

Okay fair enough.

 

Given the parity in today's NHL, what do you feel the Jets have to do to get into the playoff picture and make some noise?

 

 

[Podein25]

32 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Okay fair enough.

 

Given the parity in today's NHL, what do you feel the Jets have to do to get into the playoff picture and make some noise?

 

 

 

Overall, I think they are better on paper than they have been on the ice.

 

In a word: goaltending. Helly is the franchise goalie of the future but he's still young. They need a strong veteran backup/starter who can stabilise things but also help bring Helly along. Pavs' contract is up so now they can make a move. They were a bit handcuffed by that. 

 

They were awful in their own end last season. Some pointed to their D-men, but it was a system problem. In my opinion, much of it stemmed from the goaltending situation: there's nothing like being nervous about your guy in goal to get guys to play tentative and run around.

 

But it was also a system problem. So, fire the coach? I think if it continues they will have to do that, but right now I think Maurice is the right guy for the young guys. 

 

So in sum: a goalie. After that I would add another veteran D-man, preferably big and mobile. I think the forwards will take care of themselves. 

[yave1964]

1 hour ago, Podein25 said:

 

I know when I tell you that the Jets were the "most successful team in the short-lived WHA" (Wiki) you will say: "but I'm talking about the NHL." Except you want to conflate the experience of two different teams in that statement, which is also unfair. 

 

Let's just judge the Jets 2.0 since the crappy Atlanta team moved to Winnipeg. It is sad enough: one playoff appearance in 5 years. Carry on.

 

Ahh the old WHA, that is in my wheelhouse right there. I am a HUGE fan of the era, that is when I discovered Hockey. I still consider the line of Nilsson centering Hedberg and Hull the greatest line that I personally never saw. Throw in Kent Nilsson and the tail end of Terrible Teddy on the back end and the Euro explosion in the WHA that was led by the Jets. Joe Daley was a terribly underrated goalie, I do not know if he still has his card ship in town or not, I used to order from him on Ebay and he ALWAYS sent an autographed card of himself with my order which was cool even as an adult. I must have twenty Daley autographs.

 

  Yeah, to me you have to factor in the WHA years, they were amazing even in the final year when Hedberg/Ulfie went to the NYR they poached most of the Aeros players excepting the Howes who went to New England and won the Avco cup the final year that the WHA was around.

 

  Great talking about the league with someone else who is  old enough to remember it. I think we are both showing our age.

[Podein25]

28 minutes ago, yave1964 said:

Ahh the old WHA, that is in my wheelhouse right there. I am a HUGE fan of the era, that is when I discovered Hockey. I still consider the line of Nilsson centering Hedberg and Hull the greatest line that I personally never saw. Throw in Kent Nilsson and the tail end of Terrible Teddy on the back end and the Euro explosion in the WHA that was led by the Jets. Joe Daley was a terribly underrated goalie, I do not know if he still has his card ship in town or not, I used to order from him on Ebay and he ALWAYS sent an autographed card of himself with my order which was cool even as an adult. I must have twenty Daley autographs.

 

  Yeah, to me you have to factor in the WHA years, they were amazing even in the final year when Hedberg/Ulfie went to the NYR they poached most of the Aeros players excepting the Howes who went to New England and won the Avco cup the final year that the WHA was around.

 

  Great talking about the league with someone else who is  old enough to remember it. I think we are both showing our age.

 

I turn 50 next month, so I'm *just* old enough to know the WHA. I was not a Jets fan then. I was a Flyer fan. But I was intrigued by the European talent in that team. And when I was 12 I stayed (billeted) at Lars-Erik Sjoberg's house. Very cool. Nice guy.

[yave1964]

16 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

I turn 50 next month, so I'm *just* old enough to know the WHA. I was not a Jets fan then. I was a Flyer fan. But I was intrigued by the European talent in that team. And when I was 12 I stayed (billeted) at Eric Sjoberg's house. Very cool. Nice guy.

Sjoberg!! That is too cool.

 

I am 52, I met Perry Miller and Barry Long when I was a teen and they played for the Red Wings, my Grandfather was a lifelong Michigander who settled in Ohio and used to take me to the old Olympia and then the early days of the Joe back when the Wings were simply awful, impossible to watch. We were eating at Lindell's which was as iconic of a sports bar as you would ever find, absolutely no idea why Long and Miller were even there, it was summer and we were in town to see the Tigers, but they were eating and drinking loudly and I got their autogrpaphs and from one table away listened to them tell tales of their WHA days. It may have been the first time that it dawned on me that former rivals could end up teammates. It was pretty awesome Long even came over to our table and sat for awhile. He kept apologizing that he didnt have a puck or a stick in his car. I remember just being in awe. If I hadnt been hooked that would have done it for me.

  Then, the first player who I ever wrote to for an autograph was an obscure defenseman named Bob Woytowich, I cannot even remember why I wrote to him particularly but he sent me a long letter back thanking me for remembering him (truth is I didn't but now I have my own copy of every one of his cards) and of course I still have the letter, he signed it Bobby W and wrote RACERS on the bottom which I thought was way cool. He passed away some years ago. I remember feeling as if I lost someone who i was close to.

  So yeah I am a 52 year old fan boy. Superstars dono t interest me as much as the average or below average player. I would rather have a beer with Sean Pronger than Chris Pronger for instance. 

[jammer2]

30 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

I turn 50 next month, so I'm *just* old enough to know the WHA. I was not a Jets fan then. I was a Flyer fan. But I was intrigued by the European talent in that team. And when I was 12 I stayed (billeted) at Lars-Erik Sjoberg's house. Very cool. Nice guy.

 

 I was very young when Bobby Hull made the big move to the Peg. Even at that young age, it seems huge.

 

I'm kinda shocked to see this thread go so negative. In my mind, the Jets are doing things the right way, stockpiling young ultra-talented players...both at the AHL and NHL levels. So much so, that Brendan Lemieux, Kyle Connor, Joel Armia, Marko Dano...will all struggle to make the NHL next year. THAT is impressive. The Jets just need to stay the course. The present day Jets and Chevy have NOTHING to do with the Jets previous playoff failures.

 

The only thing that REALLY needs to be addressed is goaltending. They need to access whether Hell-Boy is the heir apparent in goal, or if they need to move on. Either way, they need to shore up that spot short and long term.

[Podein25]

3 hours ago, jammer2 said:

 

 I was very young when Bobby Hull made the big move to the Peg. Even at that young age, it seems huge.

 

I'm kinda shocked to see this thread go so negative. In my mind, the Jets are doing things the right way, stockpiling young ultra-talented players...both at the AHL and NHL levels. So much so, that Brendan Lemieux, Kyle Connor, Joel Armia, Marko Dano...will all struggle to make the NHL next year. THAT is impressive. The Jets just need to stay the course. The present day Jets and Chevy have NOTHING to do with the Jets previous playoff failures.

 

The only thing that REALLY needs to be addressed is goaltending. They need to access whether Hell-Boy is the heir apparent in goal, or if they need to move on. Either way, they need to shore up that spot short and long term.

 

Yeah, I think Winnipeg is just an easy target for folks to crap on. It is after all a sh!thole of a place that nobody wants to come to 

 

I agree on the prospects - some of the best in the league. But Armia is definitely making the team. He's good.

[WordsOfWisdom]

On 6/23/2017 at 11:47 AM, jammer2 said:

I'm kinda shocked to see this thread go so negative.

 

That was probably my bad.

 

On 6/23/2017 at 3:00 PM, Podein25 said:

I think Winnipeg is just an easy target for folks to crap on.

 

I sort of opened the bomb doors and let my insides empty out. Instant five pound weight loss. 

 

For me it's more about pent-up frustration than anything else. I've been watching hockey since the early 1990's and none of Canada's teams has won a President's trophy in that time (unless I'm missing something). The Habs 1993 win was an underdog victory. The team wasn't all that great besides having Roy, and they haven't had a sniff since. Every modern day dynasty (Devils, Red Wings, Avalanche, Kings, Blackhawks, Penguins), have been exclusively US-based teams. 

 

As a fan, I can't watch those teams play even if I wanted to because of local blackouts and other restrictions. The cable providers provider have you by the ballz in Canada. You live in Ontario, and you watch only the Leafs. That leads to long periods of time where the on-ice product sucks. Fans in other markets don't go through droughts nearly that long. The Kings might stink for a year or two, but they're never down for long. Neither are the Rangers, Flyers, Stars, Red Wings, Bruins, etc... 

 

When the Jets moved back to Winnipeg I thought "wow, what a great story!"  Now I'm watching them burn through their "Canadian fan credits" like Monopoly money. There's something about the teams up north that they don't win. I really think it's worth looking into. Even by statistical standards, this is a strange anomaly. 

 

Excuse my ramblings....  carry on...

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

I guess that's a long way of saying that I'd like to see the Jets do well for a change... in my lifetime. I like to see teams do well in any hockey market that has a hardcore fan following.