CreaseAndAssist Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 I am not saying I want to see the team dump Zucker. But do we pay him just what he wants because that's simply what he's asking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 5 hours ago, rottenrefs said: Well there you have it. Time to dump the kid. Maybe get more players like Backstrom, Havlat, Heatley, Vanek & Pominville? More Charlie Coyle's? They're all worth $5 to $7+ million. Oh yeah, don't forget the captain and his A-hole alternates... What's the point of making one of the only gutless players on the roster who busts his ass every night while the vets drag their asses all over the ice waiting for all the young kids to fetch the puck for them? They're only worth a discounted contract? Guess I'm missing something. You are missing something. You made a blanket statement that without half of Zuckers goals the team would not have made the Playoffs. That was simply not true. There were only five games where his goals mattered. I’m not saying Zucker isn’t important. But to say the team wouldn’t have made the playoffs without Zucker’s goals? The stats don’t support that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey J Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/6/2018 at 8:00 AM, CreaseAndAssist said: I asked this on Twitter, but is Greg Pateryn really that much better than Ondrej Sustr? Although, Folin's NHL career has to be on life support because that's two teams that have kind of given up on him. If you want ANY piss and vinegar, he is! Sustr couldn't/wouldn't check his way out of a wet paper bag... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 39 minutes ago, Davey J said: If you want ANY piss and vinegar, he is! Sustr couldn't/wouldn't check his way out of a wet paper bag... (shrugs) He isn't a ferocious player. However he takes up more space and forces teams to the perimeter with the reach. And he's about a million dollars cheaper than Pateryn which is why I asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said: (shrugs) He isn't a ferocious player. However he takes up more space and forces teams to the perimeter with the reach. And he's about a million dollars cheaper than Pateryn which is why I asked. I think Pateryn was signed because he is physical. Same with Hendricks and Brown. They aren't afraid to hit people, unlike the rest of the Wild who often look like hula dancers trying to avoid physical contact ... It appears that the Wild are once again trying to be more physical. However, that doesn't really work if the third and fourth lines are physical and the first and second lines rival a Spanish toreador for the way they avoid physical contact... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, IllaZilla said: I think Pateryn was signed because he is physical. Same with Hendricks and Brown. They aren't afraid to hit people, unlike the rest of the Wild who often look like hula dancers trying to avoid physical contact ... It appears that the Wild are once again trying to be more physical. However, that doesn't really work if the third and fourth lines are physical and the first and second lines rival a Spanish toreador for the way they avoid physical contact... We shall see if they will be hitters. We all heard how rugged Marcus Foligno was...and he wasn't exactly a wrecking ball out there. By the way, if Fehr, Hendricks, Brown are the 4th line, where is Foligno going to play? The 3rd just because he makes more money, seems like a waste to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, CreaseAndAssist said: We shall see if they will be hitters. We all heard how rugged Marcus Foligno was...and he wasn't exactly a wrecking ball out there. By the way, if Fehr, Hendricks, Brown are the 4th line, where is Foligno going to play? The 3rd just because he makes more money, seems like a waste to me. There's no doubt. But he did lead the team in hits with 185 (yes I know it's a dubious stat. Just sayin'.) However, the team as a whole once again was dead last in hits. And apparently the Wild's ability to drain ferocity from physical players happened to Foligno as well. in 2016-17 he led Buffalo with 279 hits in 80 games. In 2017-18 he led the Wild with 185 hits in 77 games. Not sure what the Wild are doing. You can't bring in tough guys to toughen up the team and then not allow them to be tough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 hour ago, IllaZilla said: There's no doubt. But he did lead the team in hits with 185 (yes I know it's a dubious stat. Just sayin'.) However, the team as a whole once again was dead last in hits. And apparently the Wild's ability to drain ferocity from physical players happened to Foligno as well. in 2016-17 he led Buffalo with 279 hits in 80 games. In 2017-18 he led the Wild with 185 hits in 77 games. Not sure what the Wild are doing. You can't bring in tough guys to toughen up the team and then not allow them to be tough... Is that a culture issue? Where players aren't really asked to be physical. That's a pretty dramatic difference, when you were looking at Foligno's hits, did you notice the ice time was about the same as it was when he was with Buffalo or was he getting more ice time there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said: Is that a culture issue? Where players aren't really asked to be physical. That's a pretty dramatic difference, when you were looking at Foligno's hits, did you notice the ice time was about the same as it was when he was with Buffalo or was he getting more ice time there? There is a big difference between his Buffalo numbers and his Minnesota numbers: Season Team Games TOI Hits Shifts/Gm Hits/Gm Time/Shift 2016 - 17 BUF 80 15:28 279 19.9 3.5 0:46 2017 - 18 MIN 77 10:52 185 14.7 2.4 0:44 The Wild utilized him far less than Buffalo did. Could be a culture issue. Especially considering all the time that was available due to Coyle, Niederreitter, and Parise being out...not that he was ever going to be on the #1 or #2 lines. But still, that's quite a drop from the previous year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey J Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 3 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said: (shrugs) He isn't a ferocious player. However he takes up more space and forces teams to the perimeter with the reach. And he's about a million dollars cheaper than Pateryn which is why I asked. I understood the question. I'll pay $1million more a season for Pateryn any day! He's good at everything, but not great at anything which is perfect for a 3rd pairing guy who can play on the 2nd unit when needed. Sustr has many more holes to his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey J Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 3 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said: We shall see if they will be hitters. We all heard how rugged Marcus Foligno was...and he wasn't exactly a wrecking ball out there. By the way, if Fehr, Hendricks, Brown are the 4th line, where is Foligno going to play? The 3rd just because he makes more money, seems like a waste to me. Hendricks is going to be the 13th forward...which is the perfect role for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 57 minutes ago, IllaZilla said: There is a big difference between his Buffalo numbers and his Minnesota numbers: Season Team Games TOI Hits Shifts/Gm Hits/Gm Time/Shift 2016 - 17 BUF 80 15:28 279 19.9 3.5 0:46 2017 - 18 MIN 77 10:52 185 14.7 2.4 0:44 The Wild utilized him far less than Buffalo did. Could be a culture issue. Especially considering all the time that was available due to Coyle, Niederreitter, and Parise being out...not that he was ever going to be on the #1 or #2 lines. But still, that's quite a drop from the previous year... It could also be due to the fact the Wild were far more likely to be in games going into the 3rd period, and thus playing him less than being a team getting blown out and nothing else but to do but to throw the body around in frustration. Yet I would agree; by what I saw of Foligno's game with Buffalo, he seemed to bring a lot more sandpaper than he does here...which is ironic since we're paying him more than they did. And that is allegedly why we brought him here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, Davey J said: Hendricks is going to be the 13th forward...which is the perfect role for him. Meh, I think Hendricks is more versatile than he gets credit for. I'd rather see him battling on the 4th line than Foligno...because I know Hendricks will bring it every shift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey J Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 51 minutes ago, IllaZilla said: There is a big difference between his Buffalo numbers and his Minnesota numbers: Season Team Games TOI Hits Shifts/Gm Hits/Gm Time/Shift 2016 - 17 BUF 80 15:28 279 19.9 3.5 0:46 2017 - 18 MIN 77 10:52 185 14.7 2.4 0:44 The Wild utilized him far less than Buffalo did. Could be a culture issue. Especially considering all the time that was available due to Coyle, Niederreitter, and Parise being out...not that he was ever going to be on the #1 or #2 lines. But still, that's quite a drop from the previous year... I thought Foligno got more aggressive and more physical as the season went on. I actually liked his game the last 1/3 of the season or so. If we get more of that out him this coming season, I will be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey J Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, CreaseAndAssist said: Meh, I think Hendricks is more versatile than he gets credit for. I'd rather see him battling on the 4th line than Foligno...because I know Hendricks will bring it every shift. I agree with this. My post above responds to this as well. I'd like to see Hendricks used to spell all 3 - 4th liners...and play in about 60 games this coming season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Davey J said: I thought Foligno got more aggressive and more physical as the season went on. I actually liked his game the last 1/3 of the season or so. If we get more of that out him this coming season, I will be happy. Meh, still not the junkyard dog I had hoped he'd be. I had hoped he'd be a huge pain for opposing clubs. He was a non-factor for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey J Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, CreaseAndAssist said: Meh, still not the junkyard dog I had hoped he'd be. I had hoped he'd be a huge pain for opposing clubs. He was a non-factor for me... It's probably because Fletcher billed him as a middle 6 guy...so us fans wouldn't be so pissed about the trade. Maybe Foligno bought into that too. Regardless, I thought he was a factor down the stretch...and I hope to see more of that next season. If we don't, we will have 3 more mediocre seasons of him reminding us of Fletcher every time his skates touch the ice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said: It could also be due to the fact the Wild were far more likely to be in games going into the 3rd period, and thus playing him less than being a team getting blown out and nothing else but to do but to throw the body around in frustration. Yet I would agree; by what I saw of Foligno's game with Buffalo, he seemed to bring a lot more sandpaper than he does here...which is ironic since we're paying him more than they did. And that is allegedly why we brought him here... Again, why have a tough guy on the roster if you're not going to play him? Correct me if I'm wrong, but sitting on the bench and giving the opposing team the stink eye generally doesn't get their attention as much as a shot in the mouth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomdog Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I think the broken jaw early in took the wind out of his sails. If he plays like he did in the playoffs he might be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 hour ago, IllaZilla said: Again, why have a tough guy on the roster if you're not going to play him? Correct me if I'm wrong, but sitting on the bench and giving the opposing team the stink eye generally doesn't get their attention as much as a shot in the mouth... Or allow him to play his 'tough' game. I agree, although he was pretty passive after getting the snot knocked out of him by that kid from Yale on the Blackhawks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Tomdog said: I think the broken jaw early in took the wind out of his sails. If he plays like he did in the playoffs he might be ok. For me only three Wild players stepped up their game in the playoffs and that was Granlund, Winnik and Foligno. At years end if I were Leipold I would have held a party for the team, their wives and family and show nothing but film of those three busting their ass... And ask the rest of the players, "Where the hell were you during the playoffs?" I'd make the rest of the room so phucking mad at me they'd wish they never would have shown up. This team needs a wake-up call in the worst way. I would have made spectacles of every damn one of them and make it known if they don't get off their ass they're going to be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said: Or allow him to play his 'tough' game. I agree, although he was pretty passive after getting the snot knocked out of him by that kid from Yale on the Blackhawks. Nice. Some tough guy. Gets his clock cleaned by a preppie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 41 minutes ago, rottenrefs said: For me only three Wild players stepped up their game in the playoffs and that was Granlund, Winnik and Foligno. At years end if I were Leipold I would have held a party for the team, their wives and family and show nothing but film of those three busting their ass... And ask the rest of the players, "Where the hell were you during the playoffs?" I'd make the rest of the room so phucking mad at me they'd wish they never would have shown up. This team needs a wake-up call in the worst way. I would have made spectacles of every damn one of them and make it known if they don't get off their ass they're going to be gone. I think we all agree the team needs a wake up call. Unfortunately Fletcher left this team in a bind with his habit of handing out NMC to every veteran player and then overpaying every young player. So you could hoot and holler all you want. Koivu, Parise and Suter are going nowhere. Ever. And the younger players are either overpaid or they have performed poorly enough that no one wants to trade for them. Or if offers are made, you may as well just keep the players and hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Yes put them in the press box if they stink up the joint and don't set a good example. I'm tired of seeing Wild players play for 10-15 minutes a game; and yes I understand how the salary cap works too. How many years have gone by where we've said they get too many free passes and need some press box time? Now you're disagreeing with that? Winnik was pressuring people, forechecking and playing hard. The same as Foligno and Granlund. If all you saw was Winnik fight at the end of a game you weren't very observant over the course of the entire series. He was balls to the walls playing with passion in his belly. For a guy with not much talent he played out of his skin compared to the rest of the passive playing loafs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confrontational Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Interesting - the Trib said Nino played in all 82 games last season - for some reason I thought he was injured for a few games towards the final stretch... Regarding Zucker - that's a tough one... On one hand I'd like to see him sign - but on the other I can't help but wonder if he's going to be productive when shifting him to lines that aren't producing - which they seem to like to do with him... I love watching him, no doubt, but can't help but wonder what he'd be like on a younger team... Wonder how many times he's broke through the neutral zone at full speed waiting for a pass from one of the elderly vets... Would love to have a mic on his helmet to hear his self-comments about a few of our veteran laggards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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