GratefulFlyers

Indeed it is...you're right you simply can't call yourself "one of the best teams" if you don't win consistently. I don't think the veterans are kidding themselves, they know they've sucked as a team all year. None of them can answer the obvious "why can't you start a game on time?" or "why only 3 minutes of hard work tonight?" Maybe they're hedging, protecting teammates or coaches from embarrassing revelations but I doubt it. I think they're genuinely befuddled. One thing I find debatable is re: the "money players." I've been happy with Giroux and Voracek's game this year. At times they even "wow-ed" me. And Couturier impressed me long before he scored 30+ for the Flyers. The problem as I see it has more to do with the surrounding cast, although I do agree with the point you've made a few times - that these 3 are not good enough to be the (only) "money players" to take the Flyers to the Cup. But imagine Marner or Buchnevich or any of the speedy scoring demons skating with them. How many great PP feeds and setups would be goals instead of near-misses because TK is still in his funk, Allison is still green or because Hayes and JVR are on one of their many float days? Oh well just imagining...kinda late for those dreams when it comes to our aging veterans. Not too late but almost too late. As to their leadership I don't think fans can comment intelligently. Too many variables and intangibles that fans never see.

I don't know if you're referring to Couturier's quote but he said something like this, although he began it with "when we're on we're one of the best teams..." I forget the exact words but that was the gist. And I think there's some truth to it. Or, to put it in reverse (sort of), I don't believe for a second that this is the best this group of Flyers can play. re: the other teams and Covid - yes to all of that...no denying the facts. The only "but" is one more fact, and that's that everybody reacts differently. Not just to the virus itself but all the disruption, the zero practice (which I believe has really hurt the younger guys) and the uncertainty surrounding everything this season. It's not an excuse it's just the way it is. Am I disappointed in them, esp the veterans? Of course I am, although Giroux, Voracek and Couturier have all had solid seasons. Collectively they stink, no two ways about it. I just don't believe the effects of Covid can be quantified. We'll never know how much it played into their overall suckage.

And it applies to the Rangers too, not the same situation but similar to the Devils when they met the Flyers - also as you noted, the Sabres too. Look out Flyers' fans...this year was bad but next year could be worse. The outlook is dismal for a quick turnaround over the summer. Unless - and I believe there's a good chance this is true - unless this mess is mostly Because Covid. Well there is the Kracken draft so that'll shake things up a bit. But I agree with you, I'll be shocked if there are any big, bold moves by Fletcher.

Something weird and out of the ordinary happened this year. Is it the obvious Because Covid? Whatever it is, guys that make it to the NHL don't generally play with this level of indifference to puck support, to coverage, to protecting the net etc. You're right Maine it should not be this bad. The usual suspects, the target(s) for blame - it just doesn't explain losing 9-0 and a week later losing again 8-3 to the same team. Division rivalry aside that amount of apathy is practically unheard of in the NHL. The past 2 games vs. the Devils made it even more obvious. Both will miss the POs this year but one team had jump, played responsibly for the most part and was hungry for goals - and got them. The other team barely went through the motions for long stretches of the games. It's fkn embarrassing to be a Flyers' fan this year. I sure would love to know what's really been going on in that locker room...

From all accounts he's a smart guy with good people around him. I doubt he's been pressuring himself to play through injuries, at least no more than any pro athlete. Since the game in Tahoe the Flyers' nosedive has been obvious and Hart is partly responsible for it. He knows it and said as much in post-game interviews. But I never got the impression the Flyers could "ruin him" either by overwork or by exposing him to the worst defense in the NHL. Hart seems too strong-minded to be "ruined."

ha yeah they've got a tough job this year...how do you keep a straight face trying to sell the Flyers this year? Ugh. Well I guess there's always Gritty!

it's almost unbelievable how consistently the Flyers give up goals after scoring one. This has to be some kinda record. All year...I have no idea how many times it's happened but it seems like nearly every game I watch...Flyers go down by 2 or 3, start working, score and cut the lead...and then give it right back. WTF. I think they better stick with Lyon...Elliot was spent in the 3rd last game. hey hey now it's 3-2...soon to be 4-2 I assume.

Yes sir that pretty much covers it. That really was such a What-Else-Is-New? goal to give up...the timing of it made it even more awful. Flyers have given up the first goal in 9 straight games now. well at least Hayes finally got benched.

I wonder if he even wants to play another year. When I heard it was Elliot and not Lyon I knew we'd see at least 1 awful goal. He's just not able to play well in back-to-back games, apparently even when there's days off between. I hope no one is comfortable going with Hart/Lyon next year. I expect Hart will bounce back *IF* the Flyers begin playing Team D again...but he'll need a non-AHL backup I think.

I know you (flyercanuck) have alluded to this a few times...I kinda laughed it off when I read it...till now...and that is, I'm not so sure I want any good prospects exposed to this mess. How much longer before Allison realizes he's the only one giving a flying FK out there and what will that do to his game? I can imagine any young prospect getting disgusted pretty quickly, especially a real good D-man prospect. well maybe there will be big changes over the summer... [edit: "before Allison realizes he's the only one giving a flying FK out there" - that's a little too harsh, I do see plenty of hard work, hustle, etc. with most of the Flyers...it's just that it only happens for 3 or 4 minutes per game.]

well...they didn't say what the roster will be "best" at... slow starts, giving away the puck, getting scored on within a few seconds after scoring...bringing in sub-par replacements... "yes and there's so much more! Call now!" The Flyers are already best at a lot of things this year...could be next year's even "better."

Yep exactly what I was getting at. And not only his line-mates but what did the Flyers' 2nd and 3rd look like during those runs? Also the Flyers' goaltending has been either crazy-good but totally out-of-the-blue - and then went bust (Leighton) or it was pretty sub-par IIRC. I don't remember who was back there most of Giroux's PO years...Mason...Emery...Bryzgalov? Forgetting a few. But anyway yeah Giroux is no PO hero but there were some extenuating circumstances - at least sometimes.

Funny...coulda sworn I heard something like that before - from a player believe it or not. Nah...no way an NHL player would say something that stupid!

If Fletcher could pull that off it'd be a huge upgrade regardless whatever else happens. But I don't think Gaudreau will win many fans in Philly if / when the Flyers make the POs again. I haven't looked it up but I would bet his PPG falls off dramatically in the POs. I know he tore it up at BC and I know he has real good regular seasons stats...I just worry he can't step up when it's PO time. [edit: PPG reg season = 0.94; PPG playoffs = 0.63. Maybe like Giroux the knock for his dropoff in the POs is a little unfair...but it's not completely unfair.]

Last night on the 2 good shifts at the end I saw Myers battling in the crease, shoving Devils out of the way, holding his ground...and I thought "WTF is he doing? He knows he's not allowed to do that." It really was remarkable watching him play good D there for a minute.

like Sami said a complete 1-minute effort. Hey maybe next game they'll work hard for 2 minutes. I know they're not going to go full-tilt every shift. I cut em a little slack considering the position they're in. But the difference in effort from the 2 teams was so obvious. How many shifts did the Flyers spend attacking in the Devils' zone? Was there even one? Even the PP they spent more time chasing the puck cleared back into their own zone. There's only one word for that effort: Pathetic.

The Flyers Win The Pennant! The Flyers Win The Pennant! The Flyers Win The Pennant!

Sure like to see more of Morin...Myers didn't look any better after riding the bench a few games...same soft, passive effort. I suppose AV had to get him back out there ... after all he is (hopefully) part of the Flyers' future. But Sam deserves the ice time and since it isn't about going for points anymore I hope Morin plays tonight.

Actually it is nice to have a couple great FO guys...Giroux, Couturier are always near the top of the league I believe. And some of the credit goes partly to the rest of the skaters. The PP IIRC has been pretty good over the years, something like 20% on average. The PK is another story. I don't recall the Flyers ever having a reliable PK. I'm guessing it's been below middle-of-the-pack for many years.

It is sad. Before I looked it up I figured he was about a 0.75 PPG player. It's actually 0.6. Hayes and his agent must've laughed themselves silly that day. "You just signed a contract for FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS!" Over $7mil a year and he does nothing consistently well, nothing.

I think he is a bad player. He's got too much Petr Nedved in him w/out the goal-scoring. That's why I call him the poster boy for the JVR fan club. He floats about 80% of his shifts, just drifts, stays away from the play. The other 20% I see a good player, a strong guy on the puck no doubt. It's just that, like JVR, it only happens once a week if that. Oh lord almighty I hope not. No one in their right mind can believe this core, with just a few tweaks on D and some secondary scoring help is Cup-bound. Unless - and it's an impossible "unless" - Fletcher can steal away one of the big, bad-ass #1 D-men around the league + tons of secondary scoring kicks in, maybe then they're a legitimate threat to win the Cup. Otherwise I just can't see the Flyers advancing past R1. I think so too. Last night brought home to me the fact that Giroux, Voracek and Couturier are "wasted" on a team that's missing that "stud D-man" and a true sniper type, someone who's always a threat to score goals. I saw 2 great setups by Giroux and Voracek, feeding Alison at the net and he couldn't put it home. Not blaming the kid just made me realize how many great setups went for nought because the only finisher the Flyers have is JVR...which kinda says it all.

2 goals last night 2 different Flyers actually moved away from the Ranger attacking the net with the puck. WTF? First Gost then awhile later Myers...they just backed off and let the guy score unmolested. No mystery why the Flyers are last (or 2nd to last) in the NHL in Goals-Against and PK%. But the Flyers are top 5 in FO%. ... for all the good it does them...

I doubt Fletcher will shop Hayes (admitting he was a mistake). Maybe some blind GM will see him as a solid contributor...though I doubt there's a scouting dept. that never watched the Rangers or the Flyers. I imagine Giroux could be squeezed out but that's never been the Flyers M.O. I wouldn't actively shop him anyway, he's only got 1 more year on his contract. Even though he'll probably never put up another 90+ season he's still valuable to the Flyers, more than whatever Fletcher would get in return for him this summer. And that goes triple for Voracek with his 3 more years at $8.25mil per.

If Giroux and Voracek had just emerged this year as you put it I'd be ecstatic about getting such great players. This season was no anomaly for either of them; both are about where they always are, north of 60 with potential for 80+. For me there'd be no need to "give them a chance." Weighing their strengths and weaknesses I'd say Flyers' fans should be very happy to have them both. As to your overall view, that neither of them nor both together are "enough" to win championships I agree completely. Having those 2 in their mid-20s would be a fantastic beginning. But back to reality... I'd love to see Fletcher make "big changes" this summer but I doubt it'll happen. If he can add a veteran D-man who plays big minutes that'll be a good off-season. Until the expansion draft is over I don't expect much movement. I wish Fletcher would lose Hayes. He's the poster boy of the JVR fan club. I know it won't happen as it was his one and only "Big Move" for the Flyers. As much as Jake Voracek is loathed around here that's my feeling about Hayes.

I said "pre-Covid" - everything after falls under my Because Covid theory. Agreed. I was never on board with Giroux/Voracek will lead the Flyers to a Stanley Cup. I never thought either one is enough of an impact player. It's been obvious for years that the Flyers need that game-breaking type of guy and they refuse to look or they just can't find him. They did accomplish one thing, they found Hart. But Hart isn't enough without a Pronger or a young Chara leading the back end.