caluso

Why not title it, Groundhog Day - Flyers.

I know the preseason is meaningless, but it is the same ole story for the men in O & B: Horrible defensive play, passionless shift after shift, no implementation of a "system."

The only good news is that Lavi will be gone 15 games in and Gomer will be sent out to pasture shortly thereafter. Can we say, rebuild?

Wah wah wah... Dude, seriously take some happy pills... Not trying to be a jerk but when do you ever provide anything other than the "same old bs" and the sky is falling mentality?

This article does not even address the Streit deal and the logic on the Ray Emery signing is stupid at best:

"but his signing illustrates a commitment to bargain basement goaltending"

I think we can all agree that when you spend the amount of money the Flyers did for Bryz they are not/ were not trying to be "bargain basement" shoppers. Emery is a very good pickup at the money he is making. Couple that with Mason challenging for a #1 spot I think it is a good situation. You also have a few Goalies hitting the UFA market next year and there is no long term committment to either player.

Is the Vinny deal too long? Yes, but he would have gotten more per year somewhere else and when you look at the other deals that were gievn out in FA this signing is not terrible. Look no further than Clarkson...

i appreciate your reply and i dont think you are being a jerk. we just see things differently, that's all. i have been a flyers fan for many, many years and find the manner in which they go about their business to be head-scratching and frustrating. you don't.

i ask you one question: what's their plan? other than mimicking last year's Cup winner.

imo, the Vinny signing makes no sense, none. C is our deepest position, we are loaded with promising young prospects at that position. why tie up valuable cap space AND block the development of a prospect....

and, with the exception of the bryz signing, muir is dead on - we cant develop Goalies so we are always making due with second tier players. (and in the rare instance we do - bob - we trade him. by the way, this is not 20/20 hindsight; i was one of bob's biggest fans and posted so many times)

i don't see what there is to be excited about in the future. we have a very slim chance at making the playoffs, let alone winning the cup. decades and counting....

Almost every year, this team attempts a costly, trajectory altering master stroke. You can call this something other than "blowing up the team" but it certainly entails precluding other opportunities in a dramatic way.

The closest it came to working was when the team traded for Pronger and went to the finals, where they lost to a team that was deeper and ultimately better, probably because it was built largely through the draft instead of free agency. That formula worked again this year. Meanwhile, the management of this team enters every summer thinking or at least acting like they are a deal or two away from winning it all. I hope I'm wrong but this year's masterstroke doesn't look to me like it is going to fare any better. Love that Bryz is gone and don't hate all the moves or the cap hits taken individually, but it is hard to take this seriously or expect much to come of it when it happens almost every year and particularly when It involves signing older players, including an expensive over 35 contract.

your post is one of the brightest, most articluate posts i have read here.

what the flyers management does is literally the defnition of INSANITY. they do the same thing over and over again, yet expect a different result: they keep signing players who are past their prime (again, the Lecavelier signing was unnecessary) and mismanaging the salary cap (Gomer hasn't grasped that this is a HARD salary cap league - why give Streit such a long deal????). year after year it's the same madness and, not coincidentally, they haven't won a Cup in decades.

we've seen this movie...and it NEVER ends well.

@caluso

Dude, make up your mind as to what you are going to be upset about. One of schenn being displaced to wing or couturier centering the third line was going to happen, anyway. They can't both center the second line, can they? Were you prepared to be pissed about those travesties before the lecavalier signing?

What if lecavalier goes to a wing? Or centers Giroux and voracek?

no matter how you cut it, Lecavelier takes minutes from both of those guys. we did not need a C. it is a waste of valuable cap dollars.

let schenn be the second line center. or, if you want Schenn on the wing, move Cout up to the second line and promote Laughton. give youth a chance!

like i keep saying, lecavelier is a waste of cap dollars: we need a winger and d-men....we have centers who can do the job.

Lecavalier is better than all the other flyers forwards with the exception of Giroux. What's not to like about his signing?? IMO B Schenn will never become the player he was touted to be. Think the same of him as JVR. Saw JVR in Norfolk once and he was terrible and except for a few games in a Flyers jersey did very little; hardly ever used his size. Keep the faith, the flyers can only go up this year!

since voracek is our best forward, that is absurd.

your logic is seriously flawed. who cares that Vinny was captain of a stanley cup winning team. that was years ago. using your reasoning, had the flyers signed wayne gretzky or mark messier, winners of 5 and 6 stanley cup rings respectively, that wouldn't stunt or be bad for the team, either. the simple fact is that Vinny will be centering the second line, displacing Schenn to wing, and keeping Couturier as a third line centerman (4th if he keeps playing the way he did). how is that helping those two develop? Schenn is forced to play out of position while Couturier will be forced to play sparingly. And, then there's Laughton.....relegated to the minors.

also, you mentioned that centerman was a missing piece. REALLY? C was our deepest position: G, Schenn, Cout, Laughton. Vinny's money would have been better spent finding a young winger or young d-man.

and, i argue that you don't make a move for Vinny unless he is that one piece who puts you over the top; otherwise, why spend 4.5 million per year for an ageing C who not only ties up valuable cap space, but blocks the development of younger players. THIS IS A HARD SALARY CAP LEAGUE, EVERY DOLLAR MATTERS.

Haven't we seen this movie before: signing past-their-prime players to absurd contracts and concomitantly rewarding one of your best players with a bloated contract before he really earns it (I love Giroux but he is very inconsistent: mediocre defensively and average at 5 on 5 play).

What happened to the youth movement? The signing of Vinny stunts the development of Schenn, Couturier and Laughton. And, for what reason? Lecavelier is not the missing piece - the player who puts us over the top. We are very slow up front, lack bangers who can get the puck in the corners, our defense is terrible and we have a huge question mark in goal. We are not one player away from competing for the Cup. Sorry.

Wouldn't we have been better off rebuilding and commiting to a youth movement. This team is mired in mediocrity for a reason and it is not a coincidence that we haven't won the Cup in decades: horrible management that lacks a vision - with no idea how to construct a team. As long as Snider and Gomer are in charge, expect to see the same, sad movie over and over again.

I had mentioned this yesterday after the signing. Just was thinking that toronto and Tampa had an arrangement of trade and buy out with vinny resigning for a lower cap hit already figured out with vinny. The league shot it down right away. Now after I said that on here I got a text message from my friend early this morning who's a family member of homer who I get a lot of insider stuff from when I actually get ahold of him. Apparently he is a member here but don't know his screen name. He won't tell me that. His message was to me was and I quote......."there is no policy in place in the cba blocking what you just said on hockeyforums.net. Wouldn't it be funny if there was already an agreement in place on return for vinny next off season?" I replied but haven't heard from him yet.

Tell Homer he is a moron and needs to step down. I am serious.

Or, set up a meeting and I will tell him myself.

@DaGreatGazoo

@AlaskaFlyerFan

@trevluk

full disclosure...i don't "hate" the signing...I hate the contract. IMO it appears there is no direction to this team. We have a young core that needs to grow together. Coots and Laughton especially need time to grow. how does that happen with Vinny here? Surprise..we have another log jam at center. Now if you are moving Coots or Laughton for a bona-fide young stud d-man...you might be able to convince me. Again...not hating Vinny. If this was 3 or 4 yrs ago i would be jumping up and down and personally driving to tampa to pick him up and bring him here to philly. Fast forward to present...i guess i'm just questioning if there is a really plan........

One thing is for sure....it never stays quiet in Flyertown for very long!

i couldnt agree with you more, though i do hate the signing. we are very deep at center so why tie up 4.5 million for a 33 year old who has already played 15 seasons in the league, irrespective of how much he has left in the tank, this is a hard salary cap league - something that Gomer hasn't quite grasped yet. to tie up that much money for a guy who doesn't improve a position of weakness is INSANE.

i am sick of the way the team is run. no vision, no long-term plan.

we will never win the cup with this management.

For those who don't want to bitch and moan about a player they've likely never even seen skate....

The guy is 6'6", the biggest player in the draft. He's near 210 lbs, as a 17 year old. Which means he's also one of the younger players in this draft. He skates very well, not just for a big guy, but very well. He was the fastest riser in the draft this year...which meant he turned a lot of heads. He's got a mean streak. What's not to like about that?

Have you seen him play? I have and he isn't so tough.

That so-called mean streak was usually directed at much smaller, less physical players. Go to hockeyfights and watch him get whoooped by a guy half his size.

And, frankly, it doesnt matter because, no matter how he develops, this was a TERRIBLE pick. ABSOLUTELY NO VALUE PICKING MORIN AT 11.

Its simple: If Gomer and his staff liked / loved Morin, then it was imperative that they trade down and get something, anything to slide a few spots and still get there man. That's what a clever GM would have done.

Why Gomer needs to go. There are very, very few people on this board who believe - deep down, in their core - that Gomer is capable of improving the team without sacrificing too much.

Furthermore, if we are honest with ourselves, it should be clear that Gomer has no vision, no plan.

We will not win a Cup as long as Gomer is in charge. (I know, I know, weere close a few years ago. Please, did anyone really think we had a shot with Leighton?)

His track record demonstrates his stupidity.

@pensuck

how develop a long-term strategy for once

target 2012, do not do anything thats going to affect the cap for 2016 and forward

Why?

because they're not winning the cup this season or the next

if they demonstrated patience and actually developed a PLAN then by 2016 they'd be ready to make some noise.

But now this idiotic contract will hinder their ability to make moves for 2016/2017.

You don't build a champion by putting all your chips into the upcoming season, every single season.

I couldn't agree with you more. I don't think there would be a single complaint from any real Flyers fan if the team went into a "rebuilding" mode.

The problem is that Gomer (Snider) has NO REAL PLAN. He has NO VISION. He has NO PATIENCE. And, quite frankly, its apparent he has a mediocre eye for talent.

He is always chasing LAST year's cup, building the team to compete with whomever won LAST year.

They were committed to the "left-wing lock" (ugh) until they saw the success that the Rangers had last year so they tried to mimick what the Rangers did, despite the fact that there was no training camp to implement new strategy; and, oh yea, the Flyers' roster and the Rangers' roster were constructed totally differently. What a joke!

Hockeybuzz reports this rumor. I am not saying they are reliable, just that the rumor is out there.

No way do I want Byfuglien, no way!

I wonder if the Flyers can trade Briere to another team before the buyout date, have that other team amnesty Briere, and then re-sign Briere here in Philly for a much lower rate?

the way I remember it the board was split - never understood why. To me Bob showed such obvious talent - I assumed the Flyers would go out of their way to avoid putting him in situations that could hurt his development. But they did the exact opposite.... I forgot to factor in Laviolette. It's clear to me now that he and Homer think alike when it comes to goaltending...

It seems like when they think of it at all it's along the lines of "eh anybody can stand back there and block pucks."

i get sick watching Bob play though i wish him lots of success. maybe his success will get Gomer canned. we can hope.

not only was he talented, but he was a hard worker.

I am trying to wrap my head around this thread. Seriously, not trying to be a jerk, but isn't it a little odd to single out one player on this entire team?

Looking back (and with the help of the internets) let's see how other #1 eighth over all draft picks panned out:

1) Alex Burmistrov (not too much happening there)

2) Scott Glennie (BUST)

3) Mikkel Bodker (respectable, but not tearing it up)

4) Zach Hamill (AHL)

5) Peter Mueller (may have finally found himself in Florida)

6) Devin Setoguchi (one good year in SJ)

With that said, at the cost of Couturier and the potential upside, I highly doubt he should be moved. Let's see what he has next season with some permanent line mates before jumping to the bust conclusion.

I started the thread so allow me to clarify: under no circumstances do I hold Couturier responsible for the team's wretched play this year. Gomer, Laviolette, Hartnell, Briere, Read, Coburn, Meszaros, Giroux, Bruzgalov, et al... all have a hand in this mess. Voracek and Simmonds are probably the only players who played up to their expectations.

However, I watch every game, either in person or on TV, and the guy who jumped out at me for his indifferent, lazy, sloppy, disinterested, poor play was Couturier. He has been a turnover machine, he loses almost every puck battle and his lack of hustle has astounded me. The last straw was watching him against Buffalo: he was terrible! Coincidentally, after the first period, the announcers also singled out Couturier for his poor play, laziness and lack of hustle.

I just don't believe the hype and I want it on record that I think he has a very low ceiling and he would be better served sitting and earning his ice time instead of having it handed to him because he is a "core member of the future." And, If that's the case, we are in trouble.

Additionally, I am amazed he still gets time on the PK, as he has been reduced to standing in no man's land - challenging no one - while the power play happens around him.

Calling it "bad asset management" is so kind - so gentle - it borders on fiction. (!)

Bryzgalov was supposed to be such a "work horse" - he has to play a lot to get in a groove. Yeah and so does almost every other goalie on the planet. The Flyers could've given Bob enough games to find some rhythm while still keeping Bryzgalov as the obvious starter. Instead they fkd it up completely - both guys. Well at least one of them is a good goaltender - that is, he's actually a good goaltender and not just a guy who says he is.

Canoli, i hope you remember from the other board how high i was on Bob.

I understood Snider's frustration at the time, but to sign Bryz and then give up on Bob made no sense to me and is yet another example of how mediocre management will lead to mediocre results. It makes you wonder how Reese, Gomer and Laviolette could all give up on Bob and still have their jobs. We had been searching for a franchise goalie for decades and then when we finally find one, we trade him. Mediocre management leads to mediocre results.

Let's not forget that Bob played a year of hockey without any break whatsoever: KHL, rookie camp, training camp, NHL. It was obvious that he was tiring as the year wore on.

Was he perfect? Absolutely not. But I had never seen a goalie with his athleticism and quickness in a Flyer uniform. Never! Laviolette jerked Bob in and out of the lineup and then Gomer caved to Snider's whim's and wishes - like a eunuch - and so we are stuck with Bryz while Bob develops into a star in Columbus.

Oh yea, I just got done watching Columbus beat Colorado in OT and the announcers were saying that Bob really worked on staying taller in the butterfly. Such a small adjustment it makes you wonder how come Reese never saw it.

this year his play has not impressed anyone. so why sell low , to continue losing out by making rash decisions ?

i think it would be foolish to dump the young guy for a bag of pucks before we see what he is like at 22, I don't think as others have said this is the year to pull the plug on a guy in his second year. Lots of players have had bad second years in the league lots of them have gone on to be very good pros. None of us know what the future holds but to be sure that he's going to really suck at 22 as opposed to be bigger stronger , more mature and have improved the areas where is game is weak ? I don't know how to make that judgement today. I've never read anything about him , or heard anything about him that makes me think he's a prima donna that won't work on his game. i've seen one interview where he said the reason we got him at 8 was because he had mono, but that's as far as i've seen him say anything that has me thinking "entitled" .

he's been bad this year, his skating looks laborious, he has no confidence. he fits right in with this group. I'm not ready to call him a bust though.

we have no choice but to hope that he comes back invigorated and motivated next year and his play improves. because the reality is if his skating doesn't improve, he has BUST written all over him...

Yakupov was a #1 pick. Galchenyuk a #3 I believe. Huberdeau the same? He was in junior last year (which is where I said Couturier should have been) There's a big difference between that and #8. Scheifele (picked before Couturier) is still playing junior here where I live. Strowe was taken 5th that year and hasn't played NHL yet. Couturier has twice as many points as Zibanijad who was taken before him that draft.

you mentioned age, not draft position. and, there are a lot more 20 year olds who can cut it nowadays than before.

and, the point i keep trying to make is that Couturier's weak skating will never allow him to be a top 6 forward (sadly, his speed and explosiveness are insensitive to age: either you have it at this point, or you dont).

the fact is, which people keep skating around, he lacks explosiveness and speed and seemingly desire. a very bad combo.

i dont care about

@caluso

How about giving a 20 year old kid a bit of patience for crying out loud. HE'S TWENTY!!! Most players who are in the NHL now, that's MOST, are still playing junior hockey at 20.

hamilton,huberdeau, b schenn, galchenyuk, yakupov - to name a few - are also very young with much better games.

so what exactly about his game do you like? how has he impressed you?

Nichuskin plays a gritty, physical game - compared to Rick Nash. I think he'd be exactly what we need. A down low, dirt area force!

@caluso

Nichuskin is signed for 2 more years after this one. That isn't a huge deal, but what if his team offers him a huge contract after that? Or what if he's like 90% of the Russians that come over do squat once they get their contract? Russians just scare the crap out of me when it comes to drafting them.

It should be an exciting off-season. Lavy should be gone. And we figure to pick 5 or 6 so we should be able to get a great prospect. Id rather have Nichuskin than Drouin or Mckinnon.

@caluso

Nichuskin is signed for 2 more years after this one. That isn't a huge deal, but what if his team offers him a huge contract after that? Or what if he's like 90% of the Russians that come over do squat once they get their contract? Russians just scare the crap out of me when it comes to drafting them.