Sabres still alive with 3 left. Florida last game vs Carolina. Isles get Montreal

[Buffalo Rick]

I will be hoping that Montreal can pull off a win at the Isles.  But if somehow the Sabres can win out, they would beat out the Islanders regardless of how Pittsburgh and Florida fare.  Florida plays Carolina.  Hoping for a Canes win. I am not sure how the tie breakers work?  If we lose in N Jersey and then win vs Ottawa and Columbus, we would still beat the Islanders out as far as I know?  But winning all 3 with a Carolina win in Florida would put the Sabres in I believe?

[SaucyJack]

14 hours ago, Hockey Junkie said:

I am not sure how the tie breakers work?

One of them is regulation wins, which can’t be seen in normal NHL standings like those shown in the NHL app.  (One more reason to end this 20+ years of bush league points rules and give 3 for the regulation win, thus forcing it be shown in any standings.)

 

But I digress…and buried The Lead.  (Sabres now toast after losing to Devils.  Even though Chicago beat Pittsburgh.)

 

P.S.  I read a few days ago that the regulation win tiebreak gave the edge to the Isles over Pens and Sabres.

[NHL HHOF]

The Florida Panthers and Eric Staal are going to the playoffs!!

[SaucyJack]

…and Winterpeg too!  
 

Meanwhile, Pens must beat Columbus and have Montreal beat NY Islanders in regulation, to extend their record of consecutive 16 seasons in playoffs.

Edited April 12, 2023 by SaucyJack

[Buffalo Rick]

9 hours ago, SaucyJack said:

One of them is regulation wins, which can’t be seen in normal NHL standings like those shown in the NHL app.  (One more reason to end this 20+ years of bush league points rules and give 3 for the regulation win, thus forcing it be shown in any standings.)

 

But I digress…and buried The Lead.  (Sabres now toast after losing to Devils.  Even though Chicago beat Pittsburgh.)

 

P.S.  I read a few days ago that the regulation win tiebreak gave the edge to the Isles over Pens and Sabres.

What I do not understand is how the Sabres are finished when with 2 wins and a Montreal win vs Islanders, Buffalo would have tie with Islanders in points and beat them in the head to head!!!!!  So how the hell do they win the  tie breaker?  And we would have more wins!!!!  Its ********

I guess I agree with your take on the 3 points for a regulation.  When teams are tied with less than 4-5 minutes left, it seems they both go into a shell to preserve the point.   Especially if the game is between teams that are not in same division or conference.  But I am for the old school.  A tie is a tie.  In fact, being here on a Philly forum, the Flyers have a record that will never fall as they had that 35 game unbeaten streak in the 70's or 80s, forget the exact year.  I am pretty sure Parent was still there.  They had a bunch of ties in there but that is the way  the rules were.   I think at least 6-7 ties.  The only game ever played in Rochester that counted in the NHL regular season standings, I was there.  Brodeur vs Hasek.  Sabres and Devils.  They jammed 11,000 inside an AHL arena.  A place where I watched countless concerts, including Allman Bros, Elton John, Aerosmith, and the  list goes on.   So back on topic, I am for the tie, BUT, I REALIZEZ THE SHOOTOUT IS POPULAR WITH THE CASUAL FAN AND WILL NEVER BE TAKEN AWAY.  Of course in playoffs no tie and no shootout. 

Did you guys  happen to see the penalty shot the Sabres were awarded the other night?  Tuch took the shot and missed.

I am not sure I agreed with the decision to play the kid, Levi on back to back nights and in N Jersey.  It did not work.  I believe a motivated Luukenen would have given us a better shot than the kid, who I like very much, but he must have been tired after the win vs Rangers in a shootout. Its not really fair the Sabres are eliminated when the stinking Islanders would have same points and we won the head to head!!  How the hell do they say we are eliminated with that crap?  Not to mention we would have one more win.   I understand we must beat Ottawa and Columbus and they must lose to Montreal.  But its possible is it not?  Whey would they get the tie breaker when we won the head to head with more wins?  Mind boggling

Edited April 12, 2023 by Hockey Junkie

[pilldoc]

 

HJ,

 

If 2 teams are tied in points......

 

The first tie-breaker is regulation wins (RW), which are all the wins you've accumulated minus those in overtime or the shootout. If teams have the same number of regulation wins.

 

The second tie-breaker is regulation and overtime wins (ROW), so only the shootout is excluded.

 

The 3rd tie-breaker if still tied, is the total number of all wins is used.

 

The 4th tie-breaker if still tied the edge will go to the team that accumulated more points in the head-to-head matchup against the team they're tied with.

 

Unlike in the NFL ....if 2 teams are tied the NHL DOES NOT use head to head season match-up as a way to determine tie-breakers/seeding.

Hopefully this helps .... The most points the Sabres can get is 91 (2 games with 2 wins = 4 pts) (87+4 =91)  If the Sabres win both of their games in regulation (RW) then 29+2=31 RW.

 

The Islanders have 1 game left.  Even if they lose their final record would be:

W (41) L(32) OT(9) PTS=91 --->RW =35

 

"IF" the Sabres win their last 2 games in regulation (RW) then:

W (42) L(33) OT (7) PTS = 91 ---> RW = 29+2 = 31

 

Sadly even though the Sabres would have 1 more win they would tie in points at 91, HOWEVER, the Islanders have more RW 35 vs 29 or 31 (if the Sabres win their last 2 games.)

 

It becomes a moot point if either the Islanders or Pens win.

 

IF the Islanders win and Pens lose then Islanders get last WC spot. (93 PTS)

IF the Pens win and Islanders lose then the Pens get last WC spot (92 PTS)

IF BOTH team win then Islanders get the last WC spot.

Even if BOTH teams lose and Sabres win both games, the Islanders get the last WC based off of the Regulation Win Tie Breaker  (35 vs. 31)

 

Definitions:

 

RW stands for Regulation Wins and was introduced in the 2019-20 NHL standings, next to the ROW column. The NHL now considers regulation wins more valuable than overtime wins. So when two or more teams are equal in points, the team with more regulation wins will rank higher, even with a lower ROW total.

 

ROW stands for Regulation plus Overtime Wins and was added to the NHL standings table in the 2010-11 season. The ROW stat was created to differentiate between team victories and shootout wins. The league felt that team victories should outweigh the individual nature of shootout wins.

 

So what happens when teams have the same RW?

When two or more teams have an equal Regulation Wins record (and same point total), the next step is to look at total of regular and overtime wins (ROW stat). This is according to Rule #3 of the Tie-Breaking Procedure.

 

So yes ...even if the Sabres win their last 2 games and both the Isles and Pens lose, the Sabres will not get in because the NHL use Total Points then RW.  It is what it is ...that was decided by the NHL a couple of years ago.

 

But I agree with @SaucyJack, time to go back to awarding 3 points for a RW and we would avoid this mess ........

 

[Math]

33 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

But I agree with @SaucyJack, time to go back to awarding 3 points for a RW and we would avoid this mess ........

 

That would be the most logical and coherent way, but I'm afraid the League won't change it for one reason: if you stick with the current situation, teams in the hunt for a play-off spot are mathematically eliminated as late as possible, which means more attractivity, more challenge and more money of course. If the top teams are piling up 3-pt regulation wins, then it's making them uncatchable quite early.

 

(but then, follow-up teams would also rely on 3-pt wins to catch them faster...)

 

(and maybe the fact of a must regulation wins can add some spice to the chase...)

 

Yeah, maybe my theory sucks...

 

Anyway, my ideal world would be 2 points for a win, get rid of the stupid 3-on-3 OT and have a 4-on-4 instead for 10 minutes. If one team scores in OT, 2 pts for the winner, still the loser point for the loser. If it's tied after 10 minutes, screw the SO and give just one point for both.

[pilldoc]

26 minutes ago, Math said:

 

That would be the most logical and coherent way, but I'm afraid the League won't change it for one reason: if you stick with the current situation, teams in the hunt for a play-off spot are mathematically eliminated as late as possible, which means more attractivity, more challenge and more money of course. If the top teams are piling up 3-pt regulation wins, then it's making them uncatchable quite early.

 

(but then, follow-up teams would also rely on 3-pt wins to catch them faster...)

 

(and maybe the fact of a must regulation wins can add some spice to the chase...)

 

Yeah, maybe my theory sucks...

 

Anyway, my ideal world would be 2 points for a win, get rid of the stupid 3-on-3 OT and have a 4-on-4 instead for 10 minutes. If one team scores in OT, 2 pts for the winner, still the loser point for the loser. If it's tied after 10 minutes, screw the SO and give just one point for both.

 

Can't argue against anything you posted .....  I HATE the dreaded SO.

[SaucyJack]

I’m really hoping that one year, the following happens:

 

- one game to go for three teams vying for two crucial spots.

- Team A plays Team B

- Team C guaranteed one of the spots with a victory over some Team Z…

- …unless A & B go to OT guaranteeing each at least a point that puts both in and eliminating Team C

- Team A and Team B indeed end up tied after regulation

-Team C thus denied either spot despite having the best result of the night (Regulation Win) of the 3 teams.

 

Problems or weaknesses or dumbshittery like this only gets fixed once a “problem” manifests itself with sufficient clarity.  (The way of the friggin’ world.)  Hopefully a scenario like the one above would do the trick eh.  (But for now, the greatest hockey league in the world shall operate with the bush league point scoring rules borrowed from the IHL at some point near Millenium’s End.)

 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by SaucyJack

[Math]

3-1 Isles, seems that we'll have the very first season with neither Ovechkin nor Crosby in the postseason.

[SaucyJack]

1 hour ago, Math said:

neither Ovechkin nor Crosby in the postseason.

Hmmm…no Crovechkby…mkay give some other kids a shot.

 

so…since the two East wild cards are from opposite divisions, I guess it doesn’t matter if the Cats win tomorrow to exceed the Isles points?  (Boston-Florida and either Carolina or Jersey vs Islanders?)

 

I.e., only Devils and Canes results tomorrow matter?

[Buffalo Rick]

21 hours ago, pilldoc said:

 

HJ,

 

If 2 teams are tied in points......

 

The first tie-breaker is regulation wins (RW), which are all the wins you've accumulated minus those in overtime or the shootout. If teams have the same number of regulation wins.

 

The second tie-breaker is regulation and overtime wins (ROW), so only the shootout is excluded.

 

The 3rd tie-breaker if still tied, is the total number of all wins is used.

 

The 4th tie-breaker if still tied the edge will go to the team that accumulated more points in the head-to-head matchup against the team they're tied with.

 

Unlike in the NFL ....if 2 teams are tied the NHL DOES NOT use head to head season match-up as a way to determine tie-breakers/seeding.

Hopefully this helps .... The most points the Sabres can get is 91 (2 games with 2 wins = 4 pts) (87+4 =91)  If the Sabres win both of their games in regulation (RW) then 29+2=31 RW.

 

The Islanders have 1 game left.  Even if they lose their final record would be:

W (41) L(32) OT(9) PTS=91 --->RW =35

 

"IF" the Sabres win their last 2 games in regulation (RW) then:

W (42) L(33) OT (7) PTS = 91 ---> RW = 29+2 = 31

 

Sadly even though the Sabres would have 1 more win they would tie in points at 91, HOWEVER, the Islanders have more RW 35 vs 29 or 31 (if the Sabres win their last 2 games.)

 

It becomes a moot point if either the Islanders or Pens win.

 

IF the Islanders win and Pens lose then Islanders get last WC spot. (93 PTS)

IF the Pens win and Islanders lose then the Pens get last WC spot (92 PTS)

IF BOTH team win then Islanders get the last WC spot.

Even if BOTH teams lose and Sabres win both games, the Islanders get the last WC based off of the Regulation Win Tie Breaker  (35 vs. 31)

 

Definitions:

 

RW stands for Regulation Wins and was introduced in the 2019-20 NHL standings, next to the ROW column. The NHL now considers regulation wins more valuable than overtime wins. So when two or more teams are equal in points, the team with more regulation wins will rank higher, even with a lower ROW total.

 

ROW stands for Regulation plus Overtime Wins and was added to the NHL standings table in the 2010-11 season. The ROW stat was created to differentiate between team victories and shootout wins. The league felt that team victories should outweigh the individual nature of shootout wins.

 

So what happens when teams have the same RW?

When two or more teams have an equal Regulation Wins record (and same point total), the next step is to look at total of regular and overtime wins (ROW stat). This is according to Rule #3 of the Tie-Breaking Procedure.

 

So yes ...even if the Sabres win their last 2 games and both the Isles and Pens lose, the Sabres will not get in because the NHL use Total Points then RW.  It is what it is ...that was decided by the NHL a couple of years ago.

 

But I agree with @SaucyJack, time to go back to awarding 3 points for a RW and we would avoid this mess ........

 

Its just crap that we beat them in the head to head and we are eliminated.  We are a better team than the Islanders if you take away the goalies. Now we finally have a kid that can keep us in.  But its too late. Stupid ass Adams

[SaucyJack]

12 hours ago, SaucyJack said:

so…since the two East wild cards are from opposite divisions, I guess it doesn’t matter if the Cats win tomorrow to exceed the Isles points?  (Boston-Florida and either Carolina or Jersey vs Islanders?)

 

I.e., only Devils and Canes results tomorrow matter?

I just read on the NHL app that my guesses were wrong.  The wild card order DOES matter.  Lower-point team gets the dreaded matchup with Boston. Cats motivated tonight.

 

The Canes-Cats matchup has an effect on the 7/8 wildcard and the 1/2 race in the Metro division.   So Canes motivated too, esp since Devils likely clobber the Caps in DC.
 

[Samifan]

5 hours ago, Hockey Junkie said:

We are a better team than the Islanders if you take away the goalies.

I’m guessing the Sabres would be better than ANY team if you take away the goalies. 

[Buffalo Rick]

16 minutes ago, Samifan said:

I’m guessing the Sabres would be better than ANY team if you take away the goalies. 

They can score.  7 over .500 currently.  It is drastic improvement 

[Buffalo Rick]

You guys are kind.  I’m being heckled by former head D&C sportswriter!  Picking on Sabres and Orioles!  I had to remind him at lest O’s have 3 World Series titles.  Current team is loaded w talent, but need to get injured pitchers back.

[Samifan]

18 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

You guys are kind.  I’m being heckled by former head D&C sportswriter!  Picking on Sabres and Orioles!  I had to remind him at lest O’s have 3 World Series titles.  Current team is loaded w talent, but need to get injured pitchers back.

Bob Matthews ?

[Buffalo Rick]

35 minutes ago, Samifan said:

Bob Matthews ?

Indeed.  Going at it with him right now!   Oh that’s right, your from Greece NY

Edited April 13, 2023 by Hockey Junkie

[Samifan]

@Hockey JunkieUsed to be Ogden/Spencerport area but I moved to North Carolina last September. 
 

Matthew’s has always been a piece of work. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Samifan

[Buffalo Rick]

16 minutes ago, Samifan said:

@Hockey JunkieUsed to be Ogden/Spencerport area but I moved to North Carolina last September. 
 

Matthew’s has always been a piece of work. 

Has to have the last word.  He sent me a thank you letter back a few years because I gave him an autographed memorabilia from 1951 Red Wings.  He is into baseball ️ 

[Buffalo Rick]

18 hours ago, Samifan said:

@Hockey JunkieUsed to be Ogden/Spencerport area but I moved to North Carolina last September. 
 

Matthew’s has always been a piece of work. 

Lucky you.  One place I’ve never been to but I know many who love it there.  I have a friend there that is a Philly fan.  All sports.  So the Sabres look to end 9 games over 500 and 41 or 42 wins!  Not bad, and good enough if in the West and should be in, as we beat Islanders and can tie them in points tonight.  It’s crap how they did that.  Head to head should mean more if you’re tied. The Sabres would be a more dreaded foe with a new goalie and the ability to score for even Boston.  I think the Leafs are the only team that can beat them in East.  I’m going Vegas and Eichel to win

[Math]

Very classy from the Sens.

 

 

[Samifan]

1 hour ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Lucky you.  One place I’ve never been to but I know many who love it there.  I have a friend there that is a Philly fan.  All sports.  So the Sabres look to end 9 games over 500 and 41 or 42 wins!  Not bad, and good enough if in the West and should be in, as we beat Islanders and can tie them in points tonight.  It’s crap how they did that.  Head to head should mean more if you’re tied. The Sabres would be a more dreaded foe with a new goalie and the ability to score for even Boston.  I think the Leafs are the only team that can beat them in East.  I’m going Vegas and Eichel to win

Maybe if the Sabres didn’t lose 2 out of 3 games to the Flyers this year, they would have made the playoffs

[JR Ewing]

3 hours ago, Samifan said:

Maybe if the Sabres didn’t lose 2 out of 3 games to the Flyers this year, they would have made the playoffs

 

Oof!

 

[Buffalo Rick]

10 hours ago, Samifan said:

Maybe if the Sabres didn’t lose 2 out of 3 games to the Flyers this year, they would have made the playoffs

Sabres blew them out last game. Want to compare how both did all year?  I’ll bet you now we finish higher next year