On Peter Laviolette's System and the Call For Change

[orange_crush]

I think part of the problem was Flyers dmen were/are overrated... We treat Grossman like he's a #1 stud when in reallity he's average 5/6 dman...Kimmo looks washed up...Carle is a turnover machine...Coburn probably played the best during the playoffs overall... Gus was too inexperienced...Lila is slow and average also..

[DaGreatGazoo]

So, regardless of system(s), or what we all interpret as a system...you play one style, all year, your entire team is built around that style...you get into the playoffs and another team is beating you while you play that style(trying to stay away from the word system). How can you change it? Can you??? Even if you want to? I'm not talking about minor adjustments...3rd guy high, close the gaps, dump it high off glass, etc...Some people here fault Lavy for not adjusting, but I don't know if he could/can/would.

Think to the Devils of the past...they played the trap..and they always played the trap, in varying forms, depending on the score of the game. But their base "system" didn't change.

Execution is a whole other issue..and something the Flyers did none of against the Devils. They are damn lucky they didn't get swept, cause to be honest, they deserved to lose in 4.

[SoCalFlyfan]

@Podein25

Our team is built for speed with the personnel we have to match Lavi's system.. but we do not necessarily have the 'size' to win one on on one battles (which you say is the determining factor) -our skill guys like Briere,Read,Wellwood,Jagr,Voracek and to a lesser extent guys like Schenn and Couturier (youth) are not going to win one on one battles when things get nasty in the corners.

So, in a way you and I are both right... it's the players, but those players were brought in because they fit Lavi's style...or (cough) SYSTEM.

[idahophilly]

true, but it also requires knowing who provides that support, when and where. different systems have different answers.

I think we COMPLETLY over analysz this! This game is'nt rocket science (or rocket surgery) . Yeah, there are match ups and tacticts involved. But really, If you have been playing the game you know this anyway. Motivation would be the only place I see a concerne. Not for the Flyers but every team. The Flyers simply had spent them selves. Not just down the stretch OR the Penguins series but both. It's like trying to get 12 volts out of a 9 volt battery. Aint gonna happen. Just sayin'

[The Quigster]

Lavi's system is the NHL version"The Chain Gang", Bryzo is the main and weakest link,now use your imagination and the visualise the Devil's series. The next thing to think about is "Mutiny on the Bounty". Its really much simpler than these over analyzed,looooong winded post.

[Podein25]

Lavi's style...or (cough) SYSTEM.

System shmystem.

[canoli]

Personally I found the conversation very interesting. I never played much beyond high school so I don't know if things get more complicated and technical at the higher levels but it seems to me 90% of those "system" errors were complete brain freezes (by the Flyers in the Devs series). Either that or they were lazy - mental or physical - plays by the support men on a rush. We played 5 games right? I think I saw maybe a dozen times in those 5 games where the Flyers established a forecheck. Seriously. Twelve times in 5 games. That ain't system that's motivation, energy, desire...all that intangible crap that wins PO games.

I think Aziz's point is a valid one of course. Different systems mean different approaches to defense, to breakouts, etc. But let's face it we executed our forecheck pretty well all year and then suddenly got stopped colder than a mackerel by the ... Devils? Are you joking? The Devils? With a shaky Brodeur in net and we go 18 minutes without a shot on goal?

Honestly I think we coulda had Scotty Bowman and a team of HOF coaches behind the bench and the Flyers still woulda lost in 5. We just didn't compete hard enough and that to me is the bottom line of that series.

[edit: "We just didn't compete hard enough" - for whatever reason, but none of them having to do with Lavy's style or system.]

Edited May 20, 2012 by canoli

[MDFlyerFan]

The the players missing assignments and not back checking.

To me, that's the key reason we lost the 2nd round. Yes, Bryz made some bad plays but how many times was he hung out to dry?

D-zone coverage breakdowns from all positions contributed to losing the series. How many replays of Devils goals was a player alone in front of the net with a Flyer just coming into the camera view as the puck was in the net?

Also, why the coach was unable to calm the players down when it came to breaking out of their zone is a mystery.

[Flyingswede]

There is nothing wrong with Peter Laviolette's system. I like his system. I like seing us own the puck and play aggresive offensive hockey. If you play it like the Devs or Tampa bay it will be a long boring 82 games season. There is nothing wrong with the system, just the players and the spirit. Every system works if you have all players behind it. And you need a little bit of everything in all systems. The grit players, the enrgy players, the playmakers, the snipers, a puckmoving defensman, stay at home defenseman, good golie etc etc.

[Vanflyer]

@Podein25, @Poulin20

I agree with the puck possession part. Not to state the obvious, but there is a bit more to it than that. For starters (and this again is hockey101), the d / forwards have to move and operate as a 5 man unit. Last year I saw horrendous separation at times between the two. This year, not as bad, but still a present problem. Its hard to keep the puck when you are giving the opposing team and immediate personnel advantage due to the gap of moving as a unit. In that vein, when giving up the puck, the forwards also need back check AND pick up their correct assignment as do the d. And error in this will again lead to a personnel advantage for the other team. I saw frequent missed assignment this year, or lack of closing the gap on the back check (if even one player lolligags it, that is giving the other team an immediate advantage).

I think Meltzer did make a nice point in his article regarding personnel. He used Grossman as an example (not to pick on him). Saying that he has certain attributes and qualities where he can be HIGHLY effective (as we all witnessed). Giddy-up and go is not one of those attributes. Not that EVERYONE has to be a thoroughbred, but you have to have the right matching of personnel to make a 5-man unit effective (ie. he needs a partner who can giddy-up and go AND he needs to get in the play in a reasonable amount of time).

I think three things overall:

1) The d, post prongers injury and prior to the acquisition of Grossman (and Kubina when healthy), where a patchwork and not 100% in synch with operating under Lavis run and gun / push it hard style of play. That led to point one and two above. Both of which are breakdowns and ones that Breezy does not have the proper skill set to be able to handle.

2) You just can not have a goaltender that has a near 2.8 gaa and a sub .900 save percentage for 2/3 of the year. Those stats basically mean that on average you need to score 4 goals a night to win. Let in a break down goal where your forwards / d are beat and an excellent shot / play is made is one thing. Letting in Mr. Softie on a regular basis is another. He fell into the latter one most times than not.

At 31 years old, I am not sure you can teach lateral movement / quickness. Perhaps stick handling. Allot of people are Bobrovsky detractors now. Not me. I saw a goalie that played well for 2/3 of his rookie season and then melted down. I saw a sophmore that again played well for 2/3 of the season (in a limited role) and then who knows what (referring to February melt down). Bobrovsky has 10 more times the athletic ability and quickness than Breezy. He also seems to have a much more calm personality and a HUMONGOUS work ethic (last year and this year, they reported he is ALWAYS in the gym working on twitch muscle reflex exercises, strength and endurance training).

Everybody laments that we are "stuck" with Breezy. I don't think so and have posted several times why: After next year, close to 50% of his contract will have been paid. His salary after that will average 4.2m. While his cap hit will still be what it is, I would venture you could get him to easily waive his NMC to a "small market / low pressure" team that is near the cap basement and needs relief will bleeding the bottom line.

For me, next year I would give Breezy as much rope as he needs for the first 1/3. If he is not able to get his stuff together, then I am platooning Bobrovsky / Breezy until one emerges as the clear cut starter. If that is Bobrovsky, I ride him all the way. In the following year, I give Breezy the back-up job and suck-up the cap / salary hit and then trade him at the trade deadline.

I digressed into a goalie discussion. Back to systems.

3) Coaching- I think ANY system has flaws and is overrated to an extent that has already been elaborated. In the end you have to match your system to your personnel. I give Lavi a B- / C+ in this regard. I respect his opinions about not being able to overhaul you "system" mid-stream, but make minor course corrections.

That said, I think both he was outcoached in the NJ series AND the Flyers were outplayed. It was almost like role reversal from the Pittsburgh series where Lavi outcoached Blysma and the Flyers (for the most part), outplayed Pittsburgh.

Yet I think he is the right coach for this team. I think he is stern but even handed with all the players. We all pissed and moaned about Hitch being a veteran lover. Obviously Lavi has no problem with handling and playing kids and is doing an A+ JOB in that regard. He probably needs a bit more flexibility in making those "minor" adjustments. Yet, I can live with that. After all, the guy that is going to win the Jack Adams this year and is a master strategist / X's - O's guy is out golfing at the same point Lavi is (Hitchcock).

In the end, we are witnessing why it is so hard to win the cup. If you watched NJ against Florida, you (like me), thought it was going to be a breeze (though I really did want to play Florida instead of Jersey). The Jersey team that played against us and is playing now against the Rangers is significantly different than the one I watched play against Florida. You have to give the coach AND the players props for that.