JVR

[blocker]

Just poking a stick about.

James Van Reimsdyk has 7 goals.

[Vanflyer]

Just poking a stick about.

James Van Reimsdyk has 7 goals.

And L Schenn is 3rd in the league in hits. That said, JVR is really driving to the net this year. I don't mind the trade. Schenn is a young d-man who is getting invaluable coaching from Kimmo. I wish JVR the best. I think the change of scenery will work well for both players. That said, I am impressed that JVR is doing well in the microscope of Toronto hockey.

[jammer2]

@Vanflyer As many have accurately pointed out, JVR is doing this from the top line and the top pp unit....he would not be playing in those spots in Philly.....so the stats are really subjective.

[radoran]

And L Schenn is 3rd in the league in hits.

As long as we're discussing reliable stats, what's JVR's +/-?

That said, JVR is really driving to the net this year. I don't mind the trade. Schenn is a young d-man who is getting invaluable coaching from Kimmo. I wish JVR the best. I think the change of scenery will work well for both players. That said, I am impressed that JVR is doing well in the microscope of Toronto hockey.

The trade may, indeed, work out for both teams. I'm leaning towards "edge Leafs" but it's early still.

[Polaris922]

@Vanflyer As many have accurately pointed out, JVR is doing this from the top line and the top pp unit....he would not be playing in those spots in Philly.....so the stats are really subjective.

I watched him play here a couple weeks ago and he was great. The change of scenery did him well. Or maybe he's just one of those guys who needs to be the "go to guy". I don't care what line he's on if he's lighting the lamp that well. Goal production is goal production.

[radoran]

The last thing the Flyers needed on their top line was a guy driving to the net and scoring.

They put those guys on the third line and then trade them for defensive-minded defensemen "because they haven't developed."

To be clear, the Flyers rarely put JVR in a position to maximize their investment in him and were quick to pull the trigger if the results weren't immediate.

[pilldoc]

As long as we're discussing reliable stats, what's JVR's +/-?

Believe it or not an even +0....just checked

[jammer2]

@Polaris922 "Goal production is goal production"

Was just pointing out he is getting way more oppurtunities on the Leafs top unit and #1 pp....he would not have been in that position in Philly. Honestsly, he did not do anything in Philly deserve a top 6 forward spot (except for that one wicked playoff, which was frustrating as hell, because you now knew he *could* do it), not with our depth on offense. Plus, JVR is benefitting from being the "golden Child"....a guy who will be given every oppurtunity to succeed so the trade is deemed a success. Even though Burke is not there now, I'm sure the current GM Nonis had some input to that deal also, so his rep is probably still on the line a bit also.

Not taking anything away from him, 7 goals early in the season is 7 goals no matter how you slice it. I have seen just under half the Leafs games, he's still MIA for entire periods....if not entire games....so that part has stayed the same.

Edited February 11, 2013 by jammer2

[radoran]

Jeez, jammer, the LEAFS as a TEAM are missing for entire periods

I get the feeling this team could have a Landeskog or a Nugent-Hopkins and they would be slotting them into a 3/4 line role because there is "no room in the Top 6."

Drafting a player you see as a Top 6 player and then never really giving him the opportunity to play there is NOT a reason to say that the "player is not developing"

It means the team isa not developing the player correctly.

If JVR becomes a consistent 30-35 goal scorer - IF - this trade was another unmitigated disaster.

[jammer2]

@radoran I think we all know that JVR would have eventually become a top 6 forward in Philly, but I'm just saying....the job should not be handed to you, he played some uninspired hockey most of the time, so if he gets the nod as a top 6....without really deserving it, it causes problems with his teammates. If he would have strung together a quarter season of inspired hockey, I'm sure the reigns would have been handed to him, but sadly, that never happened. I've said it many times, if JVR could make a few million bucks a year bagging groceries, he would not be a hockey player.....was never sold on the notion that he "loved" the game.....the game just seemed like a means to an end with him.

[radoran]

jammer, I'm basically saying that the team saying "he didn't take advantage of his opporrtunities" is a cop out, because they never really gave him those opportunities. They never even envisioned a Top Six role for him until lhe was producing at a Top Six level in the Bottom Six.

IMO the Flyers don't "develop talent" because they don't want to WAIT to develop talent. They're happier dealing developing talent away for talent that developed elsewhere - regardless of the results.

Thus, they deal Williams for a rental on Markov. Yippee, they made a run at a Cup. Woah, Williams won two of them.

Thus, they deal Sharp for Ellison. Yippee, they got help for the Phantoms. Woah, Sharp won a Cup.

Thus, they deal Fedotenko for Pitkanen. Yippee, they got a defenseman who "didn't develop" and "needed a change of scenery." Woah, Feds won two Cups...

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

[jammer2]

@radoran So, even though his play was weak, he deserved a top 6 spot because of his potential? Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

[Polaris922]

@radoran So, even though his play was weak, he deserved a top 6 spot because of his potential? Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

I wouldn't take it that far... but I would say that if he's got the talent to be drafted for that opportunity, he should be given some time there to develop into that player. NO player puts up a lot of numbers on the bottom six of a rotation with any consistency... your role is so much different, and you're generally expected to be shutting down the top players of the opponents. It's tough to develop into a power forward or PPG guy when you're baking into your own zone defending against the Crosby's and Malkin's of the world.

I feel Tangradi is in the same position. I think the Pens are short sighting by not giving him any real play time with Crosby or Malkin to see what he can do. He gets a shift here or a shift there, then Bylsma shakes it up and relegates him back to third or fourth line duties. I think the kid needs a game or two in that spot to see what his drive is... how hard he skates.. how much he's willing to sacrifice... give the kid a chance.

That's what I think JVR never got in Philly. Luke Schenn though has the potential to develop into a great d-man.. so the trade was even up in my eyes. But I do believe JVR will become that 30 goal guy.

[radoran]

@radoran So, even though his play was weak, he deserved a top 6 spot because of his potential? Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

not at all what i was saying. I was saying that you cannot evaluate a Top Six forward by having hhim play third line minutes. Williams, Semin, etc. aren't suited to play that sort of a role. To put a square peg into a rouund hole and blame the peg isn't a produtive way - to my mind - of developing a player. Yes, they need two way skills. Aside from "commitment" and "drive" - charges levied at Williams, certainly - there was no doubt about skill and I didn't hear anything about conditioning, except aas related to recovery from injury.

You just don't learn what you have unless you polish the rock.

It could be that a "change of scenery" is just what is needed. But the frequency of players drafted and dealt early who become/remmain successful players is indicitive to me of a team that simply doesn't develop it's talent well.

[jammer2]

@radoran Well, hard to argue with that logic.