Previous mistakes by Holmgren had a snowball effect a few years later

[RonJeremy]

Homers past mistakes led the unstable foundation of today...

 

For example, 2 moves that he made, which led us to where we are were..... trading a first rounder for Emminger, the pick ended up being Carlson and then drafting slow and skinny Coots over franchise dman Doug Hamilton, who is already a factor for Boston. I understand the theory of picking "the best player" , but how much higher could they have had  Coots rated over Hamilton? If the players are close and you have a need, then you go for the need, and you don't draft another center, when your loaded there already. It was not like we were picking 25th as usual, and in that spot its more of a risk for dmen.  We actually had the 9th pick ,this was a once in a blue moon opportunity and Homer blew it.   If Homer had drafted  Carlson and Hamilton, a few years later we would not have had to sign Streit to an outrageous contract and we would not had to have given up on JVR for one dimensional slow and underachieving Luke Schenn. all this was done because we were weak on defense.

 

 

If Homer just showed a little patience and looked to the future, we would have a much better, faster, team right now with a better transition game and way more speed on the blueline  Right now we would have , Carlson and Hamilton, two  young mobile defensemen with offensive skills  and we would have a big skating power forward in JVR. Coots  3rd line checking role would be covered by Laughton, so there would be no loss there,

 

These two past moves would have made a world of difference today.

 

To me, if the Flyers are out at the trade deadline, we make every attempt to rebuild and free up cap space.  Playoff bound teams that are missing one piece will overpay big time . Hartnell is a playoff warrior, and he might waive his NTC for a shot at the Cup,teams will pay big for him. If Grossman cost us 2 second rounders,  Timmo can get us something good. I would attempt to dump Streit and I would also play Mez to up his value. We are going nowehere so , we need to maximize returns. I would also listen to offers for just about anyone.  I would attempt to compile as many picks and prospects as I could.

 

This could be a chance to solidify the future

[Jmdodgesrt4]

I for one totally disagree with your post. Coots was the best player available. He should have dropped into the top 3 . Hamilton is a franchise dman? Hardly. He could turn out to be a pikinen or be a top 2 in the league. Picking dmen are very risky. Forwards not so much. You wanna trade harts? No thx. Then we only have simmer as a power forward. Besides if we get a first for harts it would be towards the end if the 1st round and there are no replacements for him that late in the draft. Emminger was a dman that has nhl expierence. I see that move. It didn't turn out well. Every trade somebody wins and loses. Hell there was nobody on this board that would have traded coots in his first year right? Or after that playoff run, right? You people think gloom and doom and trade everyone. Relax. This team isn't that bad. They are in most games. With harts and vinny coming back this will be a different team. And to be honest I'm more for trading kimmo instead if mez at this point. He really lost a step. Gave lots of pucks away on the pp that led to break aways. I think coby and kimmo need to go first. Then go from there.

[RonJeremy]

How come other teams can pick dmen? Why is it only hard or the Flyers, and if you look at the ratings from the draft Coots and Hamilton were close. We did not need another center. We have Laugton with nowhere to play, we have Schenn playing wing and we have Cousins. Hamilton is light years ahead of Coots right now. Coots could turn out to be real good, but as I said we needed defense. We did not need another center 3rd line checking, we have Cousins and Laugton who are exactly that.Defensive centers are much easier to find than good young defensemen.

As far as the Emminger deal. Homer got stiffed big time, Emminger was not a regular and the Caps had no plans for him, he was worth a second rounder at best. Oh yeah, I forgot, Homer traded our second rounder ,so we had to give up a first instead.

Your saying to trade Coburn, he is the only dman that can skate, in spite of his underachieving,if we trade him and we have nothing left but two over the hill fragile guys in Timmo and Streit and the rest of our dmen are as mobile as pylons.

I love Hartnell, but considering we are 3 years away from being any good, its better to unload him now, only the right price of course, and as I said, if we are out of the playofss, you make the moves, not just for the sake of trading. You have to think ahead, Timmo is retiring, that leaves us with Streit as our only skating dman. Gus has potential, but you cant say hes a top 3 dman, and he is kinda small. So we need some skill on the blueline and some speed. Where are we getting it from unless we unload some vets at the deadline when teams are prone to overpay.

You say we are in every game, but the fact is a loss is a loss. We do not have any significant offensive forwards or defensemen anywhere in our system that will be stepping in next year. So without trading we are not getting any help .

[mojo1917]

for one dimensional slow and underachieving Luke Schenn.

 

Luke Schenn is still just 23, and getting better.  Personally i'd like to see him get some more ice time.

Doug Hamilton would have warts too, as does John Carlson. The fan base would be bitching about how stupid they are too....present company included.

I think I'd rather have Hamilton than Couturier, especially since the next year they drafted Scott Laughton instead of Olli Maata, have you seen that kid play, he's looking like a top pairing player, but you know what it won't be for 4 years, but the talent is there.  So sure we don't need Couturier even though he's in his 3rd NHL season as a 20 year old.  he doesn't suck, he's not Crosby which  is what everyone expects i reckon, so he's a waste.

 

we get the luxury of hind sight, with regard to these picks,  it's a job i wouldn't want. 

[RonJeremy]

I hear ya mojo. Im not saying Coots sucks, but I still don't understand our inafatuation with centers when we clearly needed defense. It seems like for the past 30 years we had to keep trading for defense, Mark Howe, Desjardins, Haller, Svoboda, Mez, Coburn,Gauthier, Pronger, Schenn etc. Then the draft comes and we keep passing up on good defensemen. Homer finally mad the move this year, but thats no help to us right now. If we had Coots then the next year we should have gone defense or vice versa. You can never have enough defense, but homer can never have enough centers

[caluso]

I for one totally disagree with your post. Coots was the best player available. He should have dropped into the top 3 . Hamilton is a franchise dman? Hardly. He could turn out to be a pikinen or be a top 2 in the league. Picking dmen are very risky. Forwards not so much. You wanna trade harts? No thx. Then we only have simmer as a power forward. Besides if we get a first for harts it would be towards the end if the 1st round and there are no replacements for him that late in the draft. Emminger was a dman that has nhl expierence. I see that move. It didn't turn out well. Every trade somebody wins and loses. Hell there was nobody on this board that would have traded coots in his first year right? Or after that playoff run, right? You people think gloom and doom and trade everyone. Relax. This team isn't that bad. They are in most games. With harts and vinny coming back this will be a different team. And to be honest I'm more for trading kimmo instead if mez at this point. He really lost a step. Gave lots of pucks away on the pp that led to break aways. I think coby and kimmo need to go first. Then go from there.

with harts and vinny coming back they will be a different team????

 

are you paul holmgren....or have you lost perspective because of all the KOOL-AID you consumed?

 

they had "harts and vinny" in the lineup and they stunk.

[flyercanuck]

@RonJeremy

 

 You lost me at "franchise defenceman". Potential, sure. But I can also pretty much guarantee if Hamilton was playing on the Flyers right now he'd look pretty bad, and Couturier would look a lot better on a talented defensively responsible Bruins team.

[RonJeremy]

Ok Canuck....potential franchise defensemen. Im just so pissed that Hamilton is already in the NHL and we do not have one single top 3 offensive dman in our system . We have a good group of stay at home 4-6 guys, but we really need an offensively creative dman. It would be great if Alt turns out to be good. I know we finally drafted Haag and Morin, and I hope they turn out to be Homers best moves ever, but they are 3 years away.

Everyone seems to love Coots, but wait and see ,when we end up trading for a young offensive defenseman, he will be the one traded, especially with the great numbers Laughton is putting up.

[aziz]

Hamilton is light years ahead of Coots right now.

 

you know that hamilton has been a healthy scratch twice this season, right?  1 point in 5 games, +1, 8 hits and 2 blocked shots.  and the two games from the press box.  hamilton with that stat line in philly, this board would be alive with what a mistake holmgren made when drafting him, there were better players available, etc etc etc.

 

tough to see hamilton being light years ahead of couturier.  6/7 defenseman, effective 3rd line center.  neither are blowing people's minds, but at least it isn't a question as to whether couturier should dress for a particular game.

[flyercanuck]

@RonJeremy

 

 Don't get me wrong - I wanted Hamilton in that draft. I also couldn't believe Couturier fell into our lap. There are 29 other teams who would love to have Couturier in their system, just as there is would love Hamilton. Sometimes the grass is always greener...And I'm in no way sticking up for Holmgren...I wanted him gone before that draft.

[radoran]

@RonJeremy

 

 Don't get me wrong - I wanted Hamilton in that draft. I also couldn't believe Couturier fell into our lap. There are 29 other teams who would love to have Couturier in their system, just as there is would love Hamilton. Sometimes the grass is always greener...And I'm in no way sticking up for Holmgren...I wanted him gone before that draft.

 

Well, 21 - since seven of them obviously passed on Couturier...

 

The Flyers are certainly dealing with the fallout of some tremendously bad decisions by management.

 

Of course, only the same people who made the mistakes can fix them.

 

Or something...

[flyercanuck]

@radoran

 

 There are teams that may have passed on Couturier that would still love to have him in their system. And I'd bet Ottawa for one might like a redo on their pick.