The Major Juniors are too powerful-period

[yave1964]

@flyercanuck

 

I disagree. i believe the players go this route because they have no choice, it is the only game in town and only system available for Canadian young men trying to live there dream. I agree with the draconian comment though.

[Polaris922]

I'm with @yave1964 on this topic.  It seems ridiculous that the kids are handcuffed this way.  Let alone the NHL teams that are the money behind the sport.  The reality is that though few, there ARE players that are wasting valuable development time there when they could be in the AHL.  The few players we're talking about wouldn't destroy the CHL to lose.  The player's interest should come before the junior team's interest every time.  

[flyercanuck]

There are plenty of American, and European players who choose to go this route. There are also more than a few instances of gms advising their draft picks to go their to help their development.

[yave1964]

There are plenty of American, and European players who choose to go this route. There are also more than a few instances of gms advising their draft picks to go their to help their development.

Absolutely agree. The problem is it is the only option for Canadian young men who might be better served by learning at the AHL level. it really is absurd that the Juniors hold all the cards. Some flexibility needs to occur.

[jammer2]

I'm with @yave1964 on this topic.  It seems ridiculous that the kids are handcuffed this way.  Let alone the NHL teams that are the money behind the sport.  The reality is that though few, there ARE players that are wasting valuable development time there when they could be in the AHL.  The few players we're talking about wouldn't destroy the CHL to lose.  The player's interest should come before the junior team's interest every time.  

 

 

 

 

 Um, no....the money behind the CHL is the fans that attend the games. I don't know the exact cash break down, but the money the NHL kicks in for draft picks is diddly squat compared to the season ticket holders and the casual fans that pay at the door. When I first started going to OHL games, I paid $2.50 at the door, I now pay $21.50. The Spits were sold in the late 70's for 76,000....Boughner and Rychel paid 5 mill to purchase the team 5 years ago. It's a big business now, and teams that lose their stars really, really suffer when the stars leave early, especially when the teams are not well off to begin with. 

 

 The best thing for the players interest is a strong viable CHL. Without the CHL to develop their skills, a lot of these players would not be drafted to begin with. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Everyone is fine with the CHL teams paying out the nose to develop these kids at 15, 16 and 17....then when they become commodities at 18 everyone wants to rape and pillage. The fans deserve to see the finished product, having sat through the tough development years.

 

 There is a reason why Euros come over to the CHL in droves despite having many, many options overseas...it's the best league in the world at developing youngsters. Part of that is having stars that are 18 and 19. If a NHL team needs a 18 year old to survive, they should not be in the NHL in the first place. If all the kids turned pro at 18, countless careers would be ruined. Much like crazy free agent spending, the NHL GM's have to be protected from their own greed.

[yave1964]

@jammer2

 

Okay Jammer, here is my compromise.

 

Each NHL team can recall one player maximum from the Juniors per season after they have been sent down, but at a considerable fee. As a for instance, we have been using Drouin a fair amount so stick with him. Yzerman makes the ballsy move of sending him down to Halifax, but in February Yzerman wants him back as the Lightning are in contention.

  In exchange for the recall, he has to pay a one million dollar fee to Halifax. Each NHL team has the option of recalling one player a year from Juniors, but quite frankly with a formidable fee involved there wont be a half dozen players a year called up to the NHL. But it leaves the option available.

  Now with that, you would see MORE not less players playing in Juniors, instead of Monahan struggling on a third line with the Flames he would likely have been sent out to Ottawa to continue his growth with the likelihood that he would be recalled at some point. Other NHLers who are top four or five picks who struggle instead of being penalized by being kept on the NHL roster and sitting in a press box could and would get a chance to grow in a better environment.

  Let me make it clear, I am not against the Juniors, they serve a wonderful purpose. I just feel that it is a case of the tail wagging the dog by allowing them to control every aspect of Canadian farm boys under 20 who are not quite ready for the NHL.

[flyercanuck]

@yave1964

 

 Not sure your idea is going to sway many Flyer fans. Putting a $1 million price tag on bringing up a junior would likely have laughton on the Flyers last year...and Morin this year, just so Holmgren can blow more money, not because they're ready. I mean name another gm whose sole purpose is to siphon money out of the owners pocket and just flush it?

 

 As for Monohan, he IS ready. He doesn't belong in junior. 6 goals, 4 assists on a bad team. He'd be our leading scorer. He's be tied on your team in goals for the lead. I think he's ready.

[yave1964]

@flyercanuck

 

Monahan may not be the best example, lol just pulling a name out.

 

  There are many players who fit the examples I threw out there who after twenty games it is obvious they would have been better served in Juniors, just like there are examples of players such as Drouin who deserve a mid season call up. I totally understand your concern for the sanctity of the juniors, they are important but I truly believe the sport would be better served, the players themselves would be better served with some tinkering with the rules. Giving all the cards to the juniors is foolhardy and really is hurting the game by trapping players who belong in higher levels in a league in which they truly are men among boys.

[flyercanuck]

@yave1964

 

 They don't have ALL the cards. If a player is good enough (MacKinnon, Barkov, Monohan, Jones) the big club can keep them. If not, they go back. That's about as fair as it gets as far as I'm concerned.

[yave1964]

  Okay. 19 year old kid, born in BEckybeckybeckystan or somewhere comes to North America after being drafted, gets sent to Rockford or Hartford or wherever in the AHL after half a season of busting his hump and making an impression gets a well earned call up and plays well the rest of the season.

  Another kid from the States gets a shot with the NHL club and has too many weaknesses so gets sent to Peoria or wherever to hone his skills against top competition and gets a recall a month later, a more confident and better player.

  Same rules should apply for all, no matter where you are from. Sending a young man to juniors because he is not quite NHL ready even though the AHL might be a better option is unfair to the NHL squad and the player who would face better competition playing against men not boys, when another player through an accident of birth is given more of an oppurtunity now seems wrong. Juniors has had its way for too long, changes eed to be made.

  I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree.I cannot be swayed on this one and neither can anyone on the other side of the fence. This is a subject that not too many straddle the fence, you are on one side or the other. Not talking about destroying Juniors, just talking about more and better oppurtunities for the players and the NHL. To offer that would not ruin Junior hockey.

[flyercanuck]

@yave1964

 

 Ya, we're going to have to agree to disagree. I respect your opinion, but I'm not budging.

[yave1964]

@flyercanuck

 

Same here, lol. I will tip a beer back to ya tonite tho. Certainly hope there are no hard feelings.

 

I know a lot of it is the fact that I am a Yank, and as such even though I follow the sport we all love as closely as anyone on here. I know Jammer about fell over when I quoted Brian Mcfarlane once, he didn't think anyone south of Ontario knew who he was.

  As much as I love the game, I cannot relate tot he world you folks have when it comes to Junior Hockey. I wish I could, but it is not part of my world. I read about it, stay up to date as much as possible but I do not LIVE junior hockey.

  Some of the most rabid fans in the world are fans of Juniors. I in a lot of ways envy you guys who live up there and get to go to the games on a regular basis. Going to Columbus is dreary, usually I am surrounded by fans that don't know a blue line from a clothes line. The wife and I get to yelling and pointing things out that are going on and a half a dozen people a game start asking us different things about the game. It is an uneducated state about the best sport in the world.

  Folks who follow juniors religiously are IMHO the best fans in the world. I envy you and all of them like you wouldn't believe. That said, I still would like to see some minor tweaking of rules as far as eligibility, not out of  a petty jealousy because you guys have a part of the sport that living where I do I will never fully be able to appreciate, though that does frustrate me to no end, but because I believe in my heart of hearts it would improve the game.

[flyercanuck]

@yave1964

 

 No hard feelings. I consider you one of our diehard members on here.

 

 As far as junior goes, it nice to be able to watch quality hockey live for a reasonable price. For me, it's either close to a 3 hour round trip travel-wise for the most expensive seats in the entire NHL, or I can go to a Colts game for $20 and it's 3 hours for game AND travel. And it's pretty cool watching the up and coming kids develop (which is why you're never getting them!)

[Polaris922]

@jammer2

I didn't say the NHL was the money behind the CHL, just the real money behind the sport of hockey. Kids grow up dreaming if a shot in the NHL not the CHL.

[jammer2]

@Polaris922  Oh, my bad for misinterpreting.

[jammer2]

@yave1964  You know I respect you and your opinion, but much like fc, I'm not budging either. It's more than fair to give the kids the initial shot, if they are not good enough to cut the mustard, they get sent back. Even then, the kids are available for emergency recall...I believe that is more than fair.