Great cap work by Gomer and Hexy

[caluso]

I have been saying for years that this administration has no idea how to manage a hard salary cap.  I am not at all surprised that they are in this predicament - they threw away too many draft picks and didn't develop any talent, outside of Giroux. You reap what you sow......

 

And then there's the salary cap "management":

 

 

• we have a one dimensional, ass grabbing, captain in at 8,275,000. wow! this contact will look horrible in three years.
• we have Umberger in at 4,600,000. Hextall actually traded for this guy. Is that a fireable offence?
• then there's VLC checking in at 4,500,000. despite a glut of young, promising centers, Gomer went out and signed this guy.

 

YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS UP

 

 

[jammer2]

@caluso   Every time I look at how hard it is to exist in a capped world, I think back to the Clarke days. We stuck with that stiff for so long, all of his quirky "goalies don't matter" and we need big slow d-men to counter the big centers kinda crap....it makes me think...imagine if we had a great GM during the uncapped time frame?  Imagine having Comcast money in an uncapped world??  Imagine the roster you could build...man, for all the good Clarke did in this playing days, he messed this team up SO very badly during his GM days.

[murraycraven]

Good post... Although beware of the "Umberger has two less years than Hartnell" and "he is cheaper to buyout than Hartnell" faction.

We all know the cap management was an issue but the pure lack of effort by the majority of this team is terrible.

IMO, this is what a team looks like when they quit on a Coach.

[jammer2]

this contact will look horrible in three years.

 

  Have to disagree with that. As more time passes, Giroux will average around 90-95 pts in this prime years and this deal will look more like a bargain with each passing year.

[caluso]

Good post... Although beware of the cambered has two less years than Hartnell" and "he is cheaper to buoys than Hartnell" faction.

We all know the cap management was an issue but the pure lack of effort by the majority of this team is terrible.

IMO, this is what a team looks like when they quit on a Coach.

there is NO WAY you can convince me that the ridiculously small cap savings that Umberger offers us (versus Hartnell, who I was happy to see go) makes that trade sensible.

 

if you want to get rid of Hartnell, fine, i get it. WHY NOT GET A PICK IN RETURN???? why take on another horrible deal in return?

 

and, i love our new genius' statement that sending a player to the minors or juniors "never hurt anyone." first of all, that's pure hyperbole: has he done a study or serious analysis to reach such a conclusion. 

 

and, then there's the hard, cold fact that both Morin and Ghost did, in fact, get hurt (and seriously) by being sent down.

 

one clown after another at the mantle. i really think it's going to be years before we see good hockey in philly.

[flyercanuck]

@caluso

Sorry, you lost me at "one dimensional".

[caluso]

  Have to disagree with that. As more time passes, Giroux will average around 90-95 pts in this prime years and this deal will look more like a bargain with each passing year.

Giroux is not worth 8 million - 7th highest overall.

 

He clearly has no leadership skills and is not a dominant player. I say this because if he were the team would be far more competitive under his watch. His 5 on 5 numbers are mediocre (+6, -7,+7), and he does most of his work on the PP.

 

I agree he has great hands and is excellent on the Power play, but he's not an elite player, IMO. Certainly not top 7.

 

In three years, we will be saddled with this guy, too.

[murraycraven]

Giroux is not worth 8 million - 7th highest overall.

He clearly has no leadership skills and is not a dominant player. I say this because if he were the team would be far more competitive under his watch. His 5 on 5 numbers are mediocre (+6, -7,+7), and he does most of his work on the PP.

I agree he has great hands and is excellent on the Power play, but he's not an elite player, IMO. Certainly not top 7.

In three years, we will be saddled with this guy, too.

You do know G was a Hart finalist right? And he has played great all year aside from the bums around him

[caluso]

@caluso Sorry, you lost me at "one dimensional".

sorry, you are right. he is a dynamic, two way force. except his play and numbers say otherwise.

 

like i posted, he is mediocre at even strength. his propensity to drift back into a play continually costs his team. Did you see today's game?

[murraycraven]

sorry, you are right. he is a dynamic, two way force. except his play and numbers say otherwise.

like i posted, he is mediocre at even strength. his propensity to drift back into a play continually costs his team. Did you see today's game?

Sorry man... G is nowhere near the issue. Are you watching the same player as everyone else? There are really a number of players to direct your ire to on this team.

You pick G?! Is Jake next in line? The league thought he was a top 3 player last year...

[caluso]

You do know G was a Hart finalist right? And he has played great all year aside from the bums around him

let's see how "G" is doing in three years.

 

he is the captain of one of the worst team's - if not the worst team - in the NHL so i question his leadership abilities, for one. 

 

he habitually gets caught behind the play and then coasts back; case in point, the third Ranger goal today.

 

he does most of his damage on the PP, which inflates his offensive numbers. IMO.

 

you know he was left off the Olympic team, right....

[caluso]

Sorry man... G is nowhere near the issue. Are you watching the same player as everyone else? There are really a number of players to direct your ire to on this team.

You pick G?! Is Jake next in line?

Jake's my favorite player.

 

"G" IS LUCKY TO BE PLAYING WITH HIM. 

 

and I am not angry at "G". i just think he is way overpaid. that's all.

[FD19372]

G needs Jake, Jake doesn't need G. Simple as that.

[murraycraven]

let's see how "G" is doing in three years.

he is the captain of one of the worst team's - if not the worst team - in the NHL so i question his leadership abilities, for one.

he habitually gets caught behind the play and then coasts back; case in point, the third Ranger goal today.

he does most of his damage on the PP, which inflates his offensive numbers. IMO.

you know he was left off the Olympic team, right....

I am sorry but these statements are utterly bizarre. Glad you have a crystal ball to know where he will be in 3 years but respectfully disagree.

So every captain on a bad team is a bad leader? SMH

[caluso]

I am sorry but these statements are utterly bizarre. Glad you have a crystal ball to know where he will be in 3 years but respectfully disagree.

So every captain on a bad team is a bad leader? SMH

Do you think that this team shows up to play every night? I'll help you on this one: no! That is why I say he is not a good leader. Wins and losses aside, it's the effort that I am looking for.  Or, in Giroux's Flyers' case, it's the lack of effort.

 

I hold the captain responsible or the team's effort, nothing more.

 

AND LET ME REPEAT: I LIKE GIROUX, HOWEVER, I THINK HE IS YET ANOTHER FLYER WHO IS OVERPAID. That's all.....

[murraycraven]

Please... Go back and read my posts on other threads... I never said they show up every night and everything I post is to the contrary.

I disagree about G. The captain can't make players around him skate harder. Have you ever played on a hockey team?

[caluso]

I am sorry but these statements are utterly bizarre. Glad you have a crystal ball to know where he will be in 3 years but respectfully disagree.

So every captain on a bad team is a bad leader? SMH

I am not arguing that Giroux is a bad player. I like Giroux, but I think that he is not worth what he's being paid. LIKE A LOT OF FLYERS - WHICH WAS MY POINT!!!!

 

Do you think he's a top 10 player in the league? If you do, that's why we differ, because I don't.

 

Why are other teams able to re-sign their players to reasonable contracts while we habitually overpay?

[flyercanuck]

Over the last 5 seasons, guess how many players have put up more points than Giroux. I'll give you a hint...None. Please describe dominant.

[caluso]

Please... Go back and read my posts on other threads... I never said they show up every night and everything I post is to the contrary.

I disagree about G. The captain can't make players around him skate harder. Have you ever played on a hockey team?

"The captain can't make players around him skate harder...." LOL. 

 

Have you ever heard of Mark Messier?

Have you ever heard of Bobby Clarke?

Great captains make players players skate harder. They hold everybody accountable.

 

Have you ever managed people? Led people?

[caluso]

Over the last 5 seasons, guess how many players have put up more points than Giroux. I'll give you a hint...None. Please describe dominant.Again

When was the last time Giroux took over a game?

 

When was the last time Giroux was dominant on the ice?

 

Thoughts...

[murraycraven]

"The captain can't make players around him skate harder...." LOL.

Have you ever heard of Mark Messier?

Have you ever heard of Bobby Clarke?

Great captains make players players skate harder. They hold everybody accountable.

Have you ever managed people? Led people?

Have you ever looked at the players around the people you listed? The captain can't make bad players good dude..

I manage people now at work and was a Captain of my Jr team and High School. You can lead by example but I'd someone does not possess the skills you can't give them the skills...

[caluso]

Have you ever looked at the players around the people you listed? The captain can't make bad players good dude..

I manage people now at work and was a Captain of my Jr team and High School. You can lead by example but I'd someone does not possess the skills you can't give them the skills...

Do you think that the team is playing to their skill set?

 

If you do, then we will have to agree to disagree.

 

However, I think that it's part of the Captain's responsibility is to have the team ready to work hard / compete every night. Clearly the Flyers' don't do that.

 

And again, I think Giroux is a good player, but not an 8 million a year player. That's all.

[Philly29]

Sometimes Caluso if YOU have ever led people or managed people you would know that sometimes there are people out there that just can not be gotten through to. They can't be led, talked to, or managed. They half to be let go an it is simple as that.

[jammer2]

@murraycraven    Great elite players make those around them significantly better. Kinda like what we are seeing with the career year out of Voracek. Another point along the same lines is Hartnell scoring 30 goals. Let's see if he approaches that kinda production in Columbus....I doubt it. Totally agree with you, G can't make brutal players respectable, but he is doing what is expected of him, he is making his linemates significantly better. I do think Voracek is an elite player in his own right, and we are starting to see what he is capable of.....and G is a part of that.

[murraycraven]

@murraycraven Great elite players make those around them significantly better. Kinda like what we are seeing with the career year out of Voracek. Another point along the same lines is Hartnell scoring 30 goals. Let's see if he approaches that kinda production in Columbus....I doubt it. Totally agree with you, G can't make brutal players respectable, but he is doing what is expected of him, he is making his linemates significantly better. I do think Voracek is an elite player in his own right, and we are starting to see what he is capable of.....and G is a part of that.

100% agree jammer.... Well said.