I didnt have my glasses on...

[fanaticV3.0]

Where do I sign?

 

Oh wait. We don't have our 2nd.

 

How about MacDud and Cooter for Ekblad? We'll even throw in a timeshare at Del Boca Vista.

 

I love the way Frank Costanza says Del Boca Vista.

 

[icehole]

For me, the biggest problem with saying that he needs to develop is that he's not skating well.  That doesn't usually develop after year 4.  Some guys might be weak their first year or two but by year three, you should be at full skating capabilities.  He's always hunched over, slow taking long strides.

[King Knut]

Bad pass that shouldn't have happened considering the same thing happened earlier in the game. Too bad Laughton couldn't save the day on this one too.

The errant pass was negated, but Read not picking up the trailer is what killed it. Two bum plays. One a mistake, one... Exhaustion or laziness? A lack of desperation? I don't know. I have no explanation for Read this year.

Coots turned it over, Read was the one chasing his man back. He stopped skating 2 strides before he would have caught the guy who scored.

[icehole]

@brelic

Maybe I worded it wrong.  My opinion is Couturier isn't that good.  Most others think that he is fine.  I'm just trying to support my argument to why he isn't that good.  I realize everyone makes mistakes.  If I can show that he makes more mistakes than others, that supports my argument.

[icehole]

@fanaticV3.0

I hope it doesn't get deleted...it's hilarious.  I won't even comment on the grammar because that's not what it's about.

My only problem with it is you said that I am dead wrong but you didn't give a reason why.  Can you please tell me what I said that was dead wrong?

[brelic]

Bad pass that shouldn't have happened considering the same thing happened earlier in the game. Too bad Laughton couldn't save the day on this one too.

The errant pass was negated, but Read not picking up the trailer is what killed it. Two bum plays. One a mistake, one... Exhaustion or laziness? A lack of desperation? I don't know. I have no explanation for Read this year.

 

And MacDonald covered the guy going wide instead of moving toward the middle. Bad play all around.

 

Maybe I worded it wrong.  My opinion is Couturier isn't that good. 

 

I agree. Right now, he isn't that good. But he's 21 years old. Brayden Schenn two years ago wasn't that good. Last year he wasn't that good. This year, well, he's pretty darn good. And he should keep getting better.

 

It's the same with Couturier. There are red flags with this guy, like his skating. And maybe a 3rd line Handzus is all he'll ever be. But normally players that go high in the 1st round have something about them (actually, usually many things) that make them, as a group, more successful than other rounds. Couturier apparently has a very high hockey IQ - he thinks and plays the game in a smart way. I see that in his defensive game, certainly. Offensively, he looks slow mentally and physically and makes a lot of poor decisions.

 

But again, he's 21. Schenn did much of the same at his age (8 goals in 47 games). So did JVR - 40 points compared to Couturier's 39 points. 

 

JVR is now a 30 goal scorer. Schenn, who everyone wanted to trade away at some point - including me - is on pace for 30 goals this year.

 

Trade Couturier now for less than a stellar return and it'll be the same damn story in 3 years.

[icehole]

And MacDonald covered the guy going wide instead of moving toward the middle. Bad play all around.

 

 

 

 

I agree. Right now, he isn't that good. But he's 21 years old. Brayden Schenn two years ago wasn't that good. Last year he wasn't that good. This year, well, he's pretty darn good. And he should keep getting better.

 

It's the same with Couturier. There are red flags with this guy, like his skating. And maybe a 3rd line Handzus is all he'll ever be. But normally players that go high in the 1st round have something about them (actually, usually many things) that make them, as a group, more successful than other rounds. Couturier apparently has a very high hockey IQ - he thinks and plays the game in a smart way. I see that in his defensive game, certainly. Offensively, he looks slow mentally and physically and makes a lot of poor decisions.

 

But again, he's 21. Schenn did much of the same at his age (8 goals in 47 games). So did JVR - 40 points compared to Couturier's 39 points. 

 

JVR is now a 30 goal scorer. Schenn, who everyone wanted to trade away at some point - including me - is on pace for 30 goals this year.

 

Trade Couturier now for less than a stellar return and it'll be the same damn story in 3 years.

Thats a good assessment and I cant argue on things that are your opinion. Its a crap shoot really.  You are taking a risk of him losing any sort of value in hopes that he'll grow into something special.

I'm taking a risk of losing something special to get something better because I dont believe he has what it takes to grow.

We'll only know when it happens.  So how long is your period of growth...next year...two years....five years?

[idahophilly]

We'll only know when it happens.  So how long is your period of growth...next year...two years....five years

 

1 year, 57 days 7 hours and 24 minutes. What!!?? It's as good a guess as any! I'm not making fun of you, it's just that you asked the million dollar question and no one knows, obviously. I just don't want to make a knee jerk decision and trade him and then be Bitchin' and moaning about how good he is on so and so team 3 years from now. We have played that broken record enough...

[flyercanuck]

Thats a good assessment and I cant argue on things that are your opinion. Its a crap shoot really.  You are taking a risk of him losing any sort of value in hopes that he'll grow into something special.

I'm taking a risk of losing something special to get something better because I dont believe he has what it takes to grow.

We'll only know when it happens.  So how long is your period of growth...next year...two years....five years?

 

You're taking a risk of losing something special to get something better?

 

A 2nd round pick has a better chance of busting than making it in the NHL. Couturier has already made the NHL.

[icehole]

@idahophilly

I'm just asking how long because there has to be a plan in place.  At some point, they have to make a judgment to keep him or not...no?  I'm just putting you in the GM seat.

I'm not making a knee jerk decision.  The clock started the first second of his first shift.  He did well and looked promising.  Now, I believe he is in the third season of mediocre play (my opinion).

[flyercanuck]

@icehole

 

As has been mentioned, plenty of people wanted to dump 22 year old Braydon Schenn at the start of this season because he looked about as offensively gifted as Couturier presently does (and without the defence). Schenn is currently our 2nd leading goal scorer and 3rd on the team in points. 

[brelic]

I'm taking a risk of losing something special to get something better because I dont believe he has what it takes to grow.

 

What is better, in your view? What would we have to get?

[idahophilly]

I'm just asking how long because there has to be a plan in place.

 

That is your first mistake. A plan. No there doesn't have to be a plan in place. There should be, but that doesn't mean there is. And I didn't mean YOU would make a knee jerk reaction. Just historically, the Flyers do... and the fans, as a whole tend to grow impatient very fast. As FC points out, many wanted B Schenn gone and if we had of 2-3 years ago we would be ticked off now. JVR for L Schenn... Hmmmm.

 

 As far as me as the GM I gave you my time line, 1 Year, 57 Days, 7 Hours and 24 minuts ( Feb 5th 2016 at 1927 Hrs ET). Start the clock......NOW

[brelic]

I think a big part of his non-existent offensive game is how he's being used. He's slotted as a defensive center, that's how they use him, they give him wingers who will not help him along offensively, and then Couturier probably starts to doubt his own abilities. 

[icehole]

@brelic

I really haven't looked too deeply at who is out there.  I'm also not in contact with any other GMs so I don't know what his value is.  I can tell you a type that I'm looking for.  Right now, the defense looks bad but it seems like they have already started to build that up at a lower level.  So I assume that they would be looking to get a forward.  I'll tell you who would jump out at me if I was out there scouting...Laughton.

Now, I know that may be easy to say now since he has a little clip of playing well.  Before the season started though, I couldn't say that I would take Laughton because I am an engineer at a desk, not a scout for a NHL team.

My point is that scouts are paid to travel to odd places to find players that will help the team win.  I would think their goal would be to find the best player for the best price.  To me, a guy like Laughton has what I like and I can see that right in front of me.  He has speed, he has skill, and he has toughness.  He is also cheap and young so he could help for a long time.  If I was a scout, I could find a Laughton (or maybe better) in the AHL, ECHL, juniors, North Dakota State, or wherever.

[radoran]

Sean Couturier has 5g and 7a for 12 points this season. -3. He was an eighth overall pick in 2011. He is centering the Flyers' third line.

 

The Pittsburgh Penguins are the #1 team in the Metropolitan. Brandon Sutter is centering their third line - an 11th overall pick in 2007. He has 6g, 7a and 13p (+/- 0).

 

Is Sutter the difference in making the Pens the #1 team in the Division?

 

Riley Shehean has 6g, 91 and 15 points, +6 centering the third line for the Detroit Red Wings, #1 in the Atlantic. He is a 21st overall pick who is in his first full season and just turned 23.

 

Is he the difference in making the Wings the #1 team in the Atlantic?

 

The answer, clearly, is "no."

 

And the answer about Sean Couturier is that his play is clearly not the primary reason why the Flyers are 6th place in the Division.

 

He is also cheap and young so he could help for a long time. If I was a scout, I could find a Laughton (or maybe better) in the AHL, ECHL, juniors, North Dakota State, or wherever.

 

First round picks in the NHL don't grow on trees. You don't find them "wherever" - and there are 29 other teams out there looking for the same thing. If there was a bumper crop of "Scott Laughton-types" out there, they have already been found and signed.

 

Sean Couturier is young, cheap and has clearly shown some ability at the NHL level at 22. Not true of a lot of guys. Certainly not true of all #8s overall (there was a nice writeup of the #8 overalls over the past 10-15 years - go check it out because it's really not all that impressive). He is signed for next season and is then an RFA after that.

 

AGAIN, if you can work "the right deal" for him, you take it. That's true of just about any player.

 

But making it sound like it would be "easy" and that one just "has to look" and there is an obvious trade or signing to be made is completely disingenuous.

[fanaticV3.0]

@fanaticV3.0

I hope it doesn't get deleted...it's hilarious.  I won't even comment on the grammar because that's not what it's about.

My only problem with it is you said that I am dead wrong but you didn't give a reason why.  Can you please tell me what I said that was dead wrong?

 

There are dozens of comments on this thread and the others already explaining why. I'm flattered that you think I'm special enough that I could convinced you something dozens of other posts could not, but not even I am not that good. And yes, it was funny.

[icehole]

@rodoran

If they have already been found and signed, the flyers should be able to get great value out of trading him because he should be in high demand.  Not only is he a first rounder...he's #8 overall!  If all the experts are so high on him, why aren't teams banging down Hextall's door, offering proven stars to get a 22 year old #8 pick? 

If they can't get great value in return, he must not be that good...maybe even a bust right (that might sound sarcastic but it's not)?   So why are people worried about losing him?  It's a fine line they have to walk every day.

I know 29 other teams are looking for first round talent.  If the Flyers can't be in on that action, they have bigger problems than Couturier.

[idahophilly]

From what I have read here and elsewhere, one of the first things the other GM's ask for is Coots. I'll give credit (in this case) that the Flyers have withstood the pressure and NOT traded him. And i wish i could find the article (hockey news I think but not sure), the premise was the Flyers were one of the better teams at getting non-drafted players.

 

And spit balling here, but IF it's true they are not being offered fair value it's probably because there are 29 GM's circling the carcass that is the Flyers team right now and smell blood. They figure they will crumple and make a rash move like they always have.

[radoran]

@rodoran

If they have already been found and signed, the flyers should be able to get great value out of trading him because he should be in high demand.  Not only is he a first rounder...he's #8 overall!  If all the experts are so high on him, why aren't teams banging down Hextall's door, offering proven stars to get a 22 year old #8 pick? 

If they can't get great value in return, he must not be that good...maybe even a bust right (that might sound sarcastic but it's not)?   So why are people worried about losing him?  It's a fine line they have to walk every day.

I know 29 other teams are looking for first round talent.  If the Flyers can't be in on that action, they have bigger problems than Couturier.

 

The Flyers are "in on that action." They found Read. They found Bellemare. They found Raffl. That's three undrafted free agents they've added in the past few years alone that are playing significant minutes for the Flyers.

 

They have high draft picks in the system. Why do you think they aren't in on searching for new talent?

 

Couturier is in demand, but Hextall has publicly said that they won't trade any of their young guys unless some team agrees to take a "problem" with it. So it's not "can't trade Couturier" it's "won't trade Couturier unless some damn fool takes Umburglar/VLC/defensive pylon as well." You can quibble with that assertion from Hextall - as many have and do - but it remains a fact that it isn't "can't trade Couturier" but the same scouts you want out beating the ECHL bushes for talent believe that Couturier is better than guys they could get from "wherever."

 

"people are worried about losing him" because he is 22, has shown great promise in the NHL and they don't want another Justin Williams/Patrick Sharp/JVR situation where a player who "is disappointing" and "can't play too well" is shipped off to become a 30-goal scorer somewhere else in return for a bag of pucks (or Patrick Maroon).

 

I don't want half a season of Danny Markov (Williams) or an AHL winger and a mid round pick (Sharp) or a defensive pylon (JVR) for Couturier. If I get anything for him, I want an impact player.

 

Could happen. We'll see.

[icehole]

@idahophilly

I guess we don't know what the interest level is in Coots.  I just assume that the Flyers have plenty of holes to fix, so if other GMs want Coots, the Flyers should be able to fix some of those holes.  One of those holes is Coots right now.

If there are teams banging down Hexi's door and he is holding onto Coots, he is conceding the season, because it's obvious they won't be in contention for anything without a change, and they can't make a change anywhere else.  I'm not opposed to building a young team by not trading for over priced, over-the-hill stars, but I also don't think that's the only thing they could get for him.  They can stay young but maybe they can also get better. 

[flyercanuck]

@icehole

 

Seriously, one of the "holes" is the 2nd youngest and 16th highest paid player on the team? 

 

I...DON'T...GET...IT!!!!

[icehole]

@rodoran

So I'll just assume that if Couturier is still playing like this at age 25 (3 more years) you would probably want him gone.  You will probably say that he was promising but never blossomed into a good player.

I think the same exact thing but I think that now.  I know he's young to be thinking he won't evolve like those players you stated, but I can see something in every one of those players that I can't see in Coots.  If Laughton is playing like he is now and only has 30 goals and 100 pts over three seasons, I can say that he is young and the Flyers should hold onto him.  I can't say that about Couturier because he isn't playing well and hasn't for three seasons.

[idahophilly]

He isn't one of our holes. He is young and WILL have growing pains. I'm just gun shy because at the first sign of said growing pains people start scouring 29 other rosters to see what we can trade him for and my observations are that it hasn't worked out very well for the Flyers. Besides, you get rid of Coots, arguably our best shut down center, and who you gonna fill that new hole with? Vinny? I don't thiiiinkkk so... There isn't one player that you could trade Coots for today that is gonna solve the Flyers problems. And that includes throwing in VLC or RJ. Stay the coarse this season, see if Hexy can get someone to bite on VLC, RJ or MacDud at the deadline and see what happens this summer.

[idahophilly]

@rodoran

So I'll just assume that if Couturier is still playing like this at age 25 (3 more years) you would probably want him gone.  You will probably say that he was promising but never blossomed into a good player.

I think the same exact thing but I think that now.  I know he's young to be thinking he won't evolve like those players you stated, but I can see something in every one of those players that I can't see in Coots.  If Laughton is playing like he is now and only has 30 goals and 100 pts over three seasons, I can say that he is young and the Flyers should hold onto him.  I can't say that about Couturier because he isn't playing well and hasn't for three seasons.

 

 

(ref the highlighted text) I think I just spit up my coffee...