hf101 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The league has pretty much eliminated the Enforcers, Heavyweights over the last couple of years. Next in line to be eliminated seems to be the Energyguys, Middleweights or what ever you want to call them. They generally do the heavy hitting, you now the Rinaldo's, Carcillo's, Kassians, etc. Their the ones receiving multiple phone calls with Shanny over the course of their career. The length of suspensions are increasing. Teams play them less and less over the course of a season. So is the window for their employment in the NHL going away? I really don't see Carcillo with an NHL job next year. Rinaldo also. Does the league need them? Personally, I think they will be phased out just as the the Heavyweights and the league will be safer, but will it be better for the NHL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The league has pretty much eliminated the Enforcers, Heavyweights over the last couple of years. Next in line to be eliminated seems to be the Energyguys, Middleweights or what ever you want to call them. They generally do the heavy hitting, you now the Rinaldo's, Carcillo's, Kassians, etc. Their the ones receiving multiple phone calls with Shanny over the course of their career. The length of suspensions are increasing. Teams play them less and less over the course of a season. So is the window for their employment in the NHL going away? I really don't see Carcillo with an NHL job next year. Rinaldo also. Does the league need them? Personally, I think they will be phased out just as the the Heavyweights and the league will be safer, but will it be better for the NHL? Energy lines on most teams have a pretty specific role. Coaching will try to get them favorable matchups and offensive zone starts to shelter them. Try to bottle up the puck in the offensive zone to give the guys on the bench a breather. The coaches can usually tell when they have run the 3 lines so hard that none are fit for their next shift. Forecheck hard and hit hard to wear down the opposing team and be serviceable defensively. If the opposing team gets control of the puck, force a dump in if you can and 2 of the 3 of you get off the ice during the chase for better players to get on the ice. If they scored more, they would not be 4th liners and would need to be paid more money. If they were better defensively, they would probably find a niche checking role on a 3rd line and need to be paid more money. If they are checking level rookies they are gaining valuable NHL experience to eventually move up to the third line. If they are top 6 scoring caliber rookies, they are being wasted, burning a year of their entry level contract and playing only limited minutes. They could get better experience on a top AHL line 18-20 minutes a night than a 4th NHL line than 10 minutes a night in the NHL. In a salary cap world, I don't see this changing. Energy line guys are always under a threat to be sent back to the minors, unlike most skilled players who can take nights off. Their choices are, do some hard nosed hockey playing to wear down the opposing team and sacrifice the body and make $600000-$1000000 a year, or be sent down and make $70000 a year. Thus, they usually enthusiastically throw the body around, sometimes recklessly. The goons who go looking to hurt people are another matter entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Nobody needs Rinaldo. Apparently he's proud of himself for what he did tonight:http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showpost.php?p=95984927&postcount=300The guy needs to be out of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 @JackStraw Wow. that ought to get him 20 games... ah, but wait Pronger is in Player Safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihabs1993 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I feel like in recent history, the term "energy player" has meant "not very good at hockey." Guys like Rinaldo, Downie, Carcillo and others are on their way out sooner rather than later. You have to bridge the gap between goonery and productivity. I may be a bit biased here, but look at Brandon Prust. He is a talented enough hockey player who can skate, hit and hold his own in a scrap. However, I feel like calling him an "energy player" is insulting. Prust can put up a couple points, he penalty kills incredibly well and blocks a ton of shots. Guys like Prust have a presence on teams. The other 20 guys know that this guy will do anything it takes to win and this attitude rubs off on younger guys. During Alex Galchenyuk and Brendan Gallagher's rookie season, Brandon Prust played on their line. Some people way it was to look after them, but you can see a lot of Prusts habits in both Chucky and Gallagher. They each finish their checks, got to the net hard and compete for one another. So to answer your question, yes, I do think there is still a place for middleweights in this league. They're usually a good mix of productivity and grit and their veteran presence is hard to come by. Emphatic yes to middleweights, emphatic no to goons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 @ihabs1993 - Downie was a first round pick, he has real hockey talent. Carcillo has some talent, probably 4th line type if he wasn't crazy. Rinaldo has no talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihabs1993 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 @ihabs1993 - Downie was a first round pick, he has real hockey talent. Carcillo has some talent, probably 4th line type if he wasn't crazy. Rinaldo has no talent.I'm still not buying it from Downie. So, he was a 1st round pick. So what? Zigmund Palffy. Alexandre Daigle. Rick DiPietro. Patrick Stefan. All first round picks. All NHL nothings. Being selected in the first round isn't always an indication of talent or skill. It's more of an indication of potential, and potential is nearly impossible to predict.Right now, Downie has done a lot more fighting than anything else in his career. In 377 career NHL games, Downie has only gone over 40 points one time, which was in 2009-10 with the Tampa Bay Lightning. In his career, Downie has over 900 penalty minutes, and hes not even 30 years-old yet. Downie has 183 points. Picked in the 3rd round of the same draft was Kris Letang, who has amassed 265 points. The reason this is important is because Downie appeared to have more potential than Letang. I'm not saying this is untrue, but Letang has met his potential and possibly even surpassed it. On the other hand, Downie has not met his potential.And the fact that he's played on 4 NHL teams in his career so far tells me that there are doubts about his potential or even just his role on a hockey team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm still not buying it from Downie. So, he was a 1st round pick. So what? Zigmund Palffy. Alexandre Daigle. Rick DiPietro. Patrick Stefan. All first round picks. All NHL nothings. Being selected in the first round isn't always an indication of talent or skill. It's more of an indication of potential, and potential is nearly impossible to predict.Right now, Downie has done a lot more fighting than anything else in his career. In 377 career NHL games, Downie has only gone over 40 points one time, which was in 2009-10 with the Tampa Bay Lightning. In his career, Downie has over 900 penalty minutes, and hes not even 30 years-old yet. Downie has 183 points. Picked in the 3rd round of the same draft was Kris Letang, who has amassed 265 points. The reason this is important is because Downie appeared to have more potential than Letang. I'm not saying this is untrue, but Letang has met his potential and possibly even surpassed it. On the other hand, Downie has not met his potential.And the fact that he's played on 4 NHL teams in his career so far tells me that there are doubts about his potential or even just his role on a hockey team. I'm not saying that Downie was expected to be a star. Maybe he hasn't met his potential, maybe he has. That's not the point. The point is he has/had potential. Rinaldo really has none. Downie has very good hands and vision, he's a good playmaker. He has actual hockey skills. Rinaldo doesn't. You say Downie has only topped 40 points in one season, Rinaldo has 20 points IN HIS CAREER (201 games). Just because they both pick up lots of PIM doesn't put them in the same class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm still not buying it from Downie. So, he was a 1st round pick. So what? Zigmund Palffy. Alexandre Daigle. Rick DiPietro. Patrick Stefan. All first round picks. All NHL nothings. Being selected in the first round isn't always an indication of talent or skill. It's more of an indication of potential, and potential is nearly impossible to predict.Right now, Downie has done a lot more fighting than anything else in his career. In 377 career NHL games, Downie has only gone over 40 points one time, which was in 2009-10 with the Tampa Bay Lightning. In his career, Downie has over 900 penalty minutes, and hes not even 30 years-old yet. Downie has 183 points. Picked in the 3rd round of the same draft was Kris Letang, who has amassed 265 points. The reason this is important is because Downie appeared to have more potential than Letang. I'm not saying this is untrue, but Letang has met his potential and possibly even surpassed it. On the other hand, Downie has not met his potential.And the fact that he's played on 4 NHL teams in his career so far tells me that there are doubts about his potential or even just his role on a hockey team.Palffi? He was not a nothing. He was a top line mfh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Palffi? He was not a nothing. He was a top line mfh Yeah, you beat me to it with Palffy. I'll give iHabs the benefit of the doubt and assume he just accidentally the Palffy in there by mistake, but if not, he couldn't be more wrong. Palffy was a PPG+ player during the Dead Puck Era, top 10 in goals three times (top 5 twice), top ten in points four times. Ziggy Palffy was a hell of a hockey player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 You both beat me to it. Palffy wasn't my favorite kind of player, but he was over a ppg in almost 700 NHL games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihabs1993 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I'm not saying that Downie was expected to be a star. Maybe he hasn't met his potential, maybe he has. That's not the point. The point is he has/had potential. Rinaldo really has none. Downie has very good hands and vision, he's a good playmaker. He has actual hockey skills. Rinaldo doesn't. You say Downie has only topped 40 points in one season, Rinaldo has 20 points IN HIS CAREER (201 games). Just because they both pick up lots of PIM doesn't put them in the same class.I'm not going to argue that Rinaldo has no potential. I agree with you on that. I'm just saying that Downie has a very abstract role on every team he plays on. Is he a scorer? A fighter? A checker? Yeah, you beat me to it with Palffy. I'll give iHabs the benefit of the doubt and assume he just accidentally the Palffy in there by mistake, but if not, he couldn't be more wrong. Palffy was a PPG+ player during the Dead Puck Era, top 10 in goals three times (top 5 twice), top ten in points four times.Ziggy Palffy was a hell of a hockey player. Palffi? He was not a nothing. He was a top line mfhYeah mixed up on Palffy there. Was looking at Pat Falloon, believe it or not. Same draft year. Not sure why I messed that one up haha. Palffy was a very good player. It's a shame he didn't stay in the NHL too long. Looking at that draft, Ray Whitney went two spots ahead of him. Palffy still could have been playing in the NHL up until a few years ago. Honest mistake. Ziggy, if you're reading this (which would be quite surprising) I apologize lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Ziggy, if you're reading this (which would be quite surprising) I apologize lolI can just picture Palffy, sitting in the dark in his most comfy outfit, wanting to know what fans are saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I can just picture Palffy, sitting in the dark in his most comfy outfit, wanting to know what fans are saying... Is that from the Flame warriors? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Is that from the Flame warriors? lol Yeah, it's Lurker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihabs1993 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I can just picture Palffy, sitting in the dark in his most comfy outfit, wanting to know what fans are saying... I wouldn't be surprised. There are people like me who get him confused with Pat Falloon. Rookie mistake. Ziggy needs to keep me in check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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