jammer2 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 We would be really remiss as a hockey community to NOT have a thread on this story. Finally, after decades iand decades, the Leafs have righted the many, many wrongs and retired some very deserving numbers. Dave Keon, just voted the best leaf ever out of 100 finally came back into the fold, only becasue Shanny did the right thing and took away the honoured number system for straight out retiring them. I never, EVER understood the honour thing....it was a huge slap in the face. . Good for Shanny, to do the right thing. http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/leafs-retire-17-numbers-1.3807250 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 I'd also like to have an active debate on the retired numbers....I agree with most, but Wendell Clarke and Sundin were a bit much for me....yes, very good players on very bad teams, but not great...no championships, barely any playoff games....am I being to stingy with this? I can't a Does this put to an end the curse of Keon? Many Leaf fans thought the team would never win again after Harold Ballard refused to trade Keon in the NHL and forced him into the WHA...an unspeakable act for a multiple Captain of championship teams 2 tme Lady Byng and Conn Smythe winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 1 hour ago, jammer2 said: We would be really remiss as a hockey community to NOT have a thread on this story. Finally, after decades iand decades, the Leafs have righted the many, many wrongs and retired some very deserving numbers. Dave Keon, just voted the best leaf ever out of 100 finally came back into the fold, only becasue Shanny did the right thing and took away the honoured number system for straight out retiring them. I never, EVER understood the honour thing....it was a huge slap in the face. . Good for Shanny, to do the right thing. http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/leafs-retire-17-numbers-1.3807250 I don't worry too much about the retired numbers thing. The Blue Jays do it too. They have a "level of excellence" but only one retired number (Alomar). What happens when the team runs out of numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Just now, WordsOfWisdom said: I don't worry too much about the retired numbers thing. The Blue Jays do it too. They have a "level of excellence" but only one retired number (Alomar). What happens when the team runs out of numbers? Why, its triple digit time of course..... "....and at Center, the 2019 first round draft pick, #108, Bobby Digits!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 1 hour ago, jammer2 said: I'd also like to have an active debate on the retired numbers....I agree with most, but Wendell Clarke and Sundin were a bit much for me.... Sundin is the highest scoring Leaf player ever. That's why he got his number retired. Now Wendel Clark.... that's another story altogether. There's a huge dropoff from Sundin to Clark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 2 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said: Sundin is the highest scoring Leaf player ever. That's why he got his number retired. Now Wendel Clark.... that's another story altogether. There's a huge dropoff from Sundin to Clark. I saw Sundin's whole career, I think it's safe to say he was one of the only viable options on some horrible teams. Many nights, he singlehandedly kept them in games, turned sad sack teams into playoff contenders, that stuff means more to the than the pts, but in the end.....I just don't think he did enough to retire his #13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 39 minutes ago, jammer2 said: I saw Sundin's whole career, I think it's safe to say he was one of the only viable options on some horrible teams. Many nights, he singlehandedly kept them in games, turned sad sack teams into playoff contenders, that stuff means more to the than the pts, Yes indeed. 40 minutes ago, jammer2 said: but in the end.....I just don't think he did enough to retire his #13. He's in the Hall of Fame, and he's the Leafs all-time leading scorer. Now, if your franchise has only been in existence for 10 years, that isn't much of an accomplishment. Just think though: In a century of hockey, nobody has more points than Mats Sundin for the Leafs. Nobody. He played his entire Leafs career through the "dead puck era" too because all of his career highs were set with the Nordiques as a rookie/sophomore. Not to mention three lockouts during that time, one of which cancelled an entire season. If he had played during the 1970's or 1980's like Sittler, and didn't have three seasons cut short by collective bargaining failures, he would probably be sitting at 1500 points as a Maple Leafs player. (I figure he lost 82 points in 2004-05, and another 82 points for the other two lockouts. Plus, if you take his 1 PPG average and put that into a higher scoring era, he would be knocking down 120 points per season in the 1980's give or take.) I can't speak for any of these other legendary players (that played before television was invented), but Mats Sundin (and Doug Gilmour) are without question the two best forwards that the Leafs have iced -- that I've seen. Nobody else has ever really come close. Kessel doesn't compare to Sundin or Gilmour because he doesn't/can't pass. Mogilny is probably the most gifted forward I've seen outside of the big two, but he could never stay healthy in Toronto and he was in his twilight years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 22 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said: Yes indeed. He's in the Hall of Fame, and he's the Leafs all-time leading scorer. Now, if your franchise has only been in existence for 10 years, that isn't much of an accomplishment. Just think though: In a century of hockey, nobody has more points than Mats Sundin for the Leafs. Nobody. He played his entire Leafs career through the "dead puck era" too because all of his career highs were set with the Nordiques as a rookie/sophomore. Not to mention three lockouts during that time, one of which cancelled an entire season. If he had played during the 1970's or 1980's like Sittler, and didn't have three seasons cut short by collective bargaining failures, he would probably be sitting at 1500 points as a Maple Leafs player. (I figure he lost 82 points in 2004-05, and another 82 points for the other two lockouts. Plus, if you take his 1 PPG average and put that into a higher scoring era, he would be knocking down 120 points per season in the 1980's give or take.) I can't speak for any of these other legendary players (that played before television was invented), but Mats Sundin (and Doug Gilmour) are without question the two best forwards that the Leafs have iced -- that I've seen. Nobody else has ever really come close. Kessel doesn't compare to Sundin or Gilmour because he doesn't/can't pass. Mogilny is probably the most gifted forward I've seen outside of the big two, but he could never stay healthy in Toronto and he was in his twilight years. Valid point, Mats did miss a lot of time due to strikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 9 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said: Sundin is the highest scoring Leaf player ever. That's why he got his number retired. Now Wendel Clark.... that's another story altogether. There's a huge dropoff from Sundin to Clark. Ya, but does Mats have this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPuk Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 These kinds of things are always going to spark debates. I am one of the biggest Leafs fans out there, and my number one all-time favorite player is Dave Keon. But, I never thought that retiring his number was necessary. I was good with honoring the player, the person. Having said that, I'm not against it either, I just think it's not necessary to honour the player. As far as who gets their number retired - there are certainly players on the list who you might think shouldn't be there, but then there are always those who think that they should be. As far as Keon goes, I am thrilled that they finally honoured him - in whatever way. That should have happened a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 3 hours ago, BluPuk said: These kinds of things are always going to spark debates. I am one of the biggest Leafs fans out there, and my number one all-time favorite player is Dave Keon. Who? Sorry, I know it's a lame joke but the team created a "media blackout" on him for my entire life. Growing up watching the Leafs, they never said his name on air, never showed highlights of him, never had him show up to watch a game (he refused), etc. I think they probably honored every other Leafs player I can think of 10x over before mending fences with Keon. It's good to see though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPuk Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 36 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said: Sorry, I know it's a lame joke but the team created a "media blackout" on him for my entire life. You have Harold Ballard to thank for that. An unbelievable, world record ASSHAT!! I am sooo glad that Keon is back in the fold - where he belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 5 hours ago, BluPuk said: You have Harold Ballard to thank for that. An unbelievable, world record ASSHAT!! I am sooo glad that Keon is back in the fold - where he belongs. As a Flyer fan, I thought Pal Hal was hilarious. Of course I wouldn't want him within a lifetime of owning my team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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