radoran Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Just now, King Knut said: Like MacDonald, there's no real use in buying him out right now unless you have a FA wing that they want to bring in. I could see maybe wanting to sign someone to replace Weise, especially if you really don't think Lindblom will be ready next year. But then you'd have to buy out Lehtera and bury Weise (or at least help him resign himself to being the extra man) AND not promote anyone from the AHL (increasingly unlikely and unpopular). They have no allegiance to Lehtera. No team does. I say if he can't cut the mustard, waive him and see if he clears. If he doesn't. No biggie. Godspeed Jori and whoever signs his overpaid rear end. But if he clears, you bring him up the same way you did Read when you need him. The long story short is that he's a center. They don't need any centers. If they needed a center suddenly, I don't know that he'd be the first callup even. I don't see any downside to waiving him. I just don't. No one will claim him at his current salary (they didn't claim Gagner two years ago and he actually looked okay). No need to put a few extra million on your books for any additional time because like Mac, I'm not sure what having him around on the books for another year after this is really going to hurt them. Mac on the other hand, I would waive whenever the spirit finally moves Hexy and then I actually WOULD buy his rump out after next season and be done with him. But not until then. I hear what you're saying about waiving him and obviously, yes, fine. But for me there are better uses for that $3+M. That said, for me it's not so much about cap space, it's about the roster space. There are going to be better options than Lehtera that could be filling that role - whether here or in the AHL. I'm disappointed because I was hoping he would come in and show something. Well, he did, but it wasn't a good something... Heck, trade him for futures and eat a couple million and you kill two birds with one stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 1 hour ago, radoran said: In what rational salary structure is Jori Lehtera a $4.7M player? Absolutely none. Doug Armstrong lost his mind on that one. 1 hour ago, radoran said: I have to imagine the Flyers will buy him out at the end of the season - barring some sort of montage training sequence that turns Lehtera into a completely different player. That's a $1.36M cap hit next season and a $1.66M in 19-20. I don't know. He and MacDonald are (or should be) candidates for buyouts/waivers and I think I'd prefer to see MacDonald bought out if it means Sanheim, Morin and possibly Myers are full time NHLers next year. Since Lehtera only has one year left, I'd be inclined to just let him ride it out in the press box or waive him. Then again, having one year left makes it less painful to buy him out from a cap perspective. Though, I don't know if they really need the cap room next year or the following. Seems the year after that is the year when things could get interesting. I wonder if he would voluntarily terminate his contract before next year and return to Finland? That's a lot of $$ to leave on the table, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 37 minutes ago, radoran said: I hear what you're saying about waiving him and obviously, yes, fine. But for me there are better uses for that $3+M. Like what? And I don't mean that rhetorically. I'm just really thinking of anyone that I'd want. The best I can think of is if the team is looking half decent to good come deadline time and someone else is looking to unload a better goalie that makes a lot, but isn't on a long term deal. I suppose there's the option of a similarly short contracted scoring winger come the trade deadline, but otherwise, I'm pretty happy with all but three roster spots, and each of those seem to have an heir apparent (or four) waiting in the wings for their moment to step in. You wouldn't want to sign a scoring LW or a Talented D man to a big contract now if you think Lindblom, Morin, Myers, Friedman, etc might be ready to make the jump soon (and obviously they do think that). We'll need to address the contracts of and/or replace SImmonds, Weal and Raffl, but by the time that cap space will be needed, Lehtera will be off the books completely, so if that's the major motivation, getting him off a year early does nothing and only hurts you by making that million and a half or whatever it'll be of buyout cash untouchable. I think this is exactly why Hextall agreed to this trade. He knows that worst case scenario, he has to bury Lehtera in the AHL and eat the contract... he can totally do that for the next two years without breaking a sweat. 37 minutes ago, radoran said: That said, for me it's not so much about cap space, it's about the roster space. There are going to be better options than Lehtera that could be filling that role - I agree. I just happen to think they're already in the organization. Like I said, the most I could offer is that if you can get a better goalie going into the playoffs, I think you do it. Otherwise, I'm not really sure what we'd be looking at. 37 minutes ago, radoran said: Heck, trade him for futures and eat a couple million and you kill two birds with one stone. Of course this is the ideal situation. There are a couple of guys on the team that this would be ideal for. Long story short is I think Hextall knew Lehtera was a bit of a dead albatross and that's why St. Louis made us take him. Hextall also knew that the team could endure this particular dead albatross for two years and be just fine. Especially in a post Nolan Patrick world. If he surprises us, great. If not, it's not going to hurt Hextall's plans because signing a big Free agent isn't part of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 5 hours ago, AJgoal said: Applying the system? Yes a bad attempt and a not so good time. Yes he was. But it me done right. Notanytime you feel like it and he should not attempt that ill advised move it starts with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 5 hours ago, elmatus said: I understand the system needs to be applied equally to all for it to really function, but we have to understand as fans that not all dmen are going to be equally capable of executing this type of play. Yeah but you also don't skate the damn puck down into the slot with two Pred players right there. Dumb move. It is also about when and where and that wasn't a good time to try an pull something like that down there.....it is what got Ghost bench know WHEN to do it. That was not the time. EPIC FAIL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 25 minutes ago, darthbal said: From what I have seen, it appears that he has a hard time producing on smaller ice surfaces; but when he plays on the big surfaces, he seems to have no production issues... Aside from his first NHL season, he has not produced much; could it be that other players realised the if you hit hard enough, he disappears???? There is also the issues he had last season with "Upper Body Injuries"; not sure if it was concussions related or something else, who knows; maybe he is still not 100%. Just my Canadian nickel... He's your typical mid-level European forward. He's Michael Raffl. He's certainly not two Michael Raffl's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Sorry i don't mean any harm to the Flyers #2 defenseman.... ...carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 What a great break up by Hagg here... ...and then he plays goalie... ...dude has been impressive....got to love the effort! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 27 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: That was not the time. EPIC FAIL! Did you watch the entire play or just see Nashville score and decide that it must be MacDonald's fault since he was on the ice? The reason why MacDonald cycled low is because Simmonds rotated up high to the point with possession of the puck. MacDonald rotated into an open area in the circle to give Simmonds an opportunity to make a pass. Not an epic fail by MacDonald in that regard. The epic fail was on Simmonds afterward for moving forward and lunging for a puck when he should have been covering high or stopping and turning back toward his own goal. I could see a little blame on MacDonald for stickhandling into a crowd of players. But the primary blame is on Simmonds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 9 minutes ago, vis said: Did you watch the entire play or just see Nashville score and decide that it must be MacDonald's fault since he was on the ice? I watched the entire play. 9 minutes ago, vis said: The reason why MacDonald cycled low is because Simmonds rotated up high to the point with possession of the puck. Sure he rotates back. Doesn't excuse what he does with the puck he should of when to the left where there was open ice you don't skate down into the slot where there is two Pred players (with a two more Preds collapsing as well) and a Flyer player already in the area. Not a good read of the play and how to protect the puck. EPIC FAIL!!! Now look if you guys want to continue to defend him by all means do. But don't try and sell me the horsesh!t he was doing what the system dictates. You are still required to read and react properly and he didn't and then cough the puck up. Sure blame Simmer. Go ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 23 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Sure blame Simmer. Go ahead. That's laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Just now, vis said: Did you watch the entire play or just see Nashville score and decide that it must be MacDonald's fault since he was on the ice? The reason why MacDonald cycled low is because Simmonds rotated up high to the point with possession of the puck. MacDonald rotated into an open area in the circle to give Simmonds an opportunity to make a pass. Not an epic fail by MacDonald in that regard. The epic fail was on Simmonds afterward for moving forward and lunging for a puck when he should have been covering high or stopping and turning back toward his own goal. I could see a little blame on MacDonald for stickhandling into a crowd of players. But the primary blame is on Simmonds. Filpulla stopped skating back after he hit the blue line. Was with Sissons the whole way up to that point. Lehtera is the one that knocked MacDonald off the puck. There's enough blame to go around on that play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 2 hours ago, vis said: Absolutely none. Doug Armstrong lost his mind on that one. I don't know. He and MacDonald are (or should be) candidates for buyouts/waivers and I think I'd prefer to see MacDonald bought out if it means Sanheim, Morin and possibly Myers are full time NHLers next year. Since Lehtera only has one year left, I'd be inclined to just let him ride it out in the press box or waive him. Then again, having one year left makes it less painful to buy him out from a cap perspective. Though, I don't know if they really need the cap room next year or the following. Seems the year after that is the year when things could get interesting. I wonder if he would voluntarily terminate his contract before next year and return to Finland? That's a lot of $$ to leave on the table, though. The only real reason to buy either one out now is just to be nice to them and let GM them find another team to play with. I wouldn't think you'd see them buy out Mac, as much as I may like because the team gave him that contract and that won't look good the UFA's in the future. However, they may do it as a "solid" to Mac buy him out as a way to let him find a home in the NHL rather than being stuck in ththe AHL. Right now though, if I'm another NHL team, I'm talking to Hextall about Mac and about the Flyers retaining some salary. He's playing well. At half or even two thirds of his salary, he could make sense. This amounts to a buyout for hextall math wise but doesn't last as long. Lehtera though-different story. I'd have to be really home sick to give up $10 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: I watched the entire play. Sure he rotates back. Doesn't excuse what he does with the puck he should of when to the left where there was open ice you don't skate down into the slot where there is two Pred players (with a two more Preds collapsing as well) and a Flyer player already in the area. Not a good read of the play and how to protect the puck. EPIC FAIL!!! Now look if you guys want to continue to defend him by all means do. But don't try and sell me the horsesh!t he was doing what the system dictates. You are still required to read and react properly and he didn't and then cough the puck up. Sure blame Simmer. Go ahead. That was my point but expressed better. Sure it's the system to go down low... but not to eff up when you get there. Now, knowing Hak, he'll shift the system rather than just playing the better player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 2 hours ago, radoran said: He's your typical mid-level European forward. He's Michael Raffl. He's certainly not two Michael Raffl's. Raffl can skate come circles around him right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 53 minutes ago, King Knut said: That was my point but expressed better. Sure it's the system to go down low... but not to eff up when you get there. Now, knowing Hak, he'll shift the system rather than just playing the better player. If that was Ghost he would have been pissed at him because even he DOES have the skills to pull off a move like that he too still should not bring the puck down low in the slot like that with 4 Preds right there who and did collapse down and jump on it after he lost it. Just wasn't a smart move. Mcdud should of skated it out to open ice to his left then it would' ve opened up options for him to pass or shoot with that move. He chose poorly and should be held accountable. His brain fart started it all with a very low percentage play that went the other way. No other way to put it. But since he is the chosen one Vandeveld replacement he continues to play.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 2 hours ago, AJgoal said: Filpulla stopped skating back after he hit the blue line. Was with Sissons the whole way up to that point. Lehtera is the one that knocked MacDonald off the puck. There's enough blame to go around on that play. Pointed out previously that MacDonald skated the puck into a group of players and Filppula looked every day of his age on that backcheck. They aren't without some fault. However, Simmonds made the most egregious error. If Simmonds hangs back like he should and that never becomes a 2 on 1 and Filppula's "backcheck" isn't an issue. Hakstol mentioned the puck getting behind Simmonds in his post-game scrum. Didn't mention anyone else. But I get that people hate MacDonald and will blame him for everything, despite that other guys on the ice made worse plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 2 hours ago, King Knut said: I wouldn't think you'd see them buy out Mac, as much as I may like because the team gave him that contract and that won't look good the UFA's in the future. However, they may do it as a "solid" to Mac buy him out as a way to let him find a home in the NHL rather than being stuck in ththe AHL. As you and rad were discussing, the main reason to do so would be to clear up a roster space and secondarily clear a little cap room sooner rather than later. And, yeah, give the guy a chance to catch-on elsewhere. We already know they cannot find room on this roster for both Sanheim and Morin with MacDonald on it. Will be an issue again next year (when both should be slam dunks to be regulars) and then you've got Myers knocking on the door after that. Logjam city on defense. Something has to give. Quote Lehtera though-different story. I'd have to be really home sick to give up $10 million. He's got one year left, right? So "only" $4.7m to give up. Still a lot of $$ to leave on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 11 hours ago, vis said: He's got one year left, right? So "only" $4.7m to give up. Still a lot of $$ to leave on the table. His "actual salary" is $5M next season. Buyout 2/3 of that. No player is walking away from this contract. That's just nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 13 hours ago, vis said: Pointed out previously that MacDonald skated the puck into a group of players and Filppula looked every day of his age on that backcheck. They aren't without some fault. However, Simmonds made the most egregious error. If Simmonds hangs back like he should and that never becomes a 2 on 1 and Filppula's "backcheck" isn't an issue. Hakstol mentioned the puck getting behind Simmonds in his post-game scrum. Didn't mention anyone else. But I get that people hate MacDonald and will blame him for everything, despite that other guys on the ice made worse plays. Sorry, I was more agreeing with you than anything. People like to pin a goal on one player, when most of the time it boils down to everyone on the ice making some sort of mistake in the sequence. Provorov was really the only skater who didn't contribute to the goal in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskaFlyerFan Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 There's a clogged toilet in the Men's room on the upper level. It's AMac's fault! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 10 hours ago, AJgoal said: Sorry, I was more agreeing with you than anything. People like to pin a goal on one player, when most of the time it boils down to everyone on the ice making some sort of mistake in the sequence. Provorov was really the only skater who didn't contribute to the goal in some way. Gotcha. Totally agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 21 hours ago, radoran said: His "actual salary" is $5M next season. Buyout 2/3 of that. No player is walking away from this contract. That's just nuts. Can't you let me dream, rad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 19 hours ago, AJgoal said: Sorry, I was more agreeing with you than anything. People like to pin a goal on one player, when most of the time it boils down to everyone on the ice making some sort of mistake in the sequence. Provorov was really the only skater who didn't contribute to the goal in some way. By the way, I wasn't attributing the last paragraph of my initial post to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 6 hours ago, vis said: By the way, I wasn't attributing the last paragraph of my initial post to you. It's cool. I don't hate MacDonald, but I hate what he represents. If you swapped him with Gudas and gave him 3rd pairing minutes every game (He actually did play the fewest minutes amongst the D against the Preds, and was middle of the pack against Florida), I'd be fine with him. I just don't want to see him logging the 2nd most minutes night after night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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