Why did nothing happen?

[Jam1986]

Sorry for being so late on  this. The hit on Vlasic  by Johansen was a cheap hit. Next time out there Pavelski goes right after Johansen. Why didn't G  go after Komarov his hit was. cheap on Ghost? Really why didn't any Flyer on the ice didn't go after him? So who is the better Captain? I think about the same they are but it irk me nobody went after Kormarov! If I'm wrong right my mistake on this.Once again sorry about the be late on this.

[FD19372]

7 minutes ago, Jam1986 said:

Sorry for being so late on  this. The hit on Vlasic  by Johansen was a cheap hit. Next time out there Pavelski goes right after Johansen. Why didn't G  go after Komarov his hit was. cheap on Ghost? Really why didn't any Flyer on the ice didn't go after him? So who is the better Captain? I think about the same they are but it irk me nobody went after Kormarov! If I'm wrong right my mistake on this.Once again sorry about the be late on this.

I want a 4th line scrub going after Komarov, not Giroux. If G gets suspended for 3 games, and the Flyers miss the playoffs by 4 points, fans like me will be saying what if.

[terp]

1 hour ago, Jam1986 said:

Sorry for being so late on  this. The hit on Vlasic  by Johansen was a cheap hit. Next time out there Pavelski goes right after Johansen. Why didn't G  go after Komarov his hit was. cheap on Ghost? Really why didn't any Flyer on the ice didn't go after him? So who is the better Captain? I think about the same they are but it irk me nobody went after Kormarov! If I'm wrong right my mistake on this.Once again sorry about the be late on this.

 

After seeing that hit and Ghostisbehere not return for the third period, I asked my Leafs fan friend (it’s good to keep a couple around for amusement): how many games?  I was more than a little surprised when no suspension was forthcoming because that hit seemed to warrant a suspension: delivered to the numbers despite plenty of time to let up, face first into the boards, caused an injury.  

 

So while I get why Giroux, all 5’ 11” and 185 lbs of top offensive player of him, would not retaliate, I don’t understand why there was no suspension.  In fact, I can somewhat understand why a team would not retaliate, in the expectation that the league would discipline Kamarov.  However, a non call like that just informs players that they SHOULD, in fact, retaliate; the league may not discipline the perpetrator and therefore the injured player’s teammates need to settle accounts.  When a top player gets injured on a hit like that, there is almost always a reaction, even if it is delayed.

 

In the absence of league discipline for Kamarov, I would kind of expect the Flyers to settle accounts with him next time the teams meet. 

[Jam1986]

Understand on G but where is the old days? What happen in the St Jose Nashville game the Captain answer a cheap he and his no bigger than G I think size wise. When do we play them  again? Yes rather win then fighting but sometimes you have too.

 

[elmatus]

2 hours ago, Jam1986 said:

Sorry for being so late on  this. The hit on Vlasic  by Johansen was a cheap hit. Next time out there Pavelski goes right after Johansen. Why didn't G  go after Komarov his hit was. cheap on Ghost? Really why didn't any Flyer on the ice didn't go after him? So who is the better Captain? I think about the same they are but it irk me nobody went after Kormarov! If I'm wrong right my mistake on this.Once again sorry about the be late on this.

 

I understand what you're saying, but I wouldn't want G to be answering that call anyway. Should someone have gone after Komarov? I dunno, maybe? What would it have changed?

 

Would Komarov -- a guy who routinely gets a truckload of bruising hits each season -- have suddenly learned his lesson and stop walking the line on his physical play? I doubt it...

 

Would engaging Komarov in a fight -- assuming he'd drop the gloves in the first place -- have somehow deterred him or others to hit Gostisbehere in the future? Hell no. Ghost is exactly the kind of guy you tell your team to finish checks on every chance they get. That's not going to change regardless of any fights that may or may not happen.

 

Would cheap shotting Komarov right back have done anything to make the situation better? No. The only thing it would have done is we'd be down yet another player to suspension (which Komarov should have gotten btw).

 

More importantly to your point, should a 5-11 elite playmaker like Giroux be the one to answer that call? Absolutely not. There's no way that turns into a positive result for anyone. 

 

Should someone else do it? I dunno, maybe... personally I just don't see what it serves. I think the better solution is for the coaching staff and brass to make a huge stink about it and try to get the league to pay more attention to cheap shots like this. The hit was definitely dirty. Komarov should have been suspended. Full stop. The fact he wasn't is just the league playing favourites again.

[FD19372]

31 minutes ago, Jam1986 said:

Understand on G but where is the old days? What happen in the St Jose Nashville game the Captain answer a cheap he and his no bigger than G I think size wise. When do we play them  again? Yes rather win then fighting but sometimes you have too.

 

Then, for the Sharks I guess Burns or Vlasic could do something, but then you lose their skill set from your D core. The Flyers as well as the Sharks don't really carry a classic enforcer, so then you sacrifice a skilled player you need in your lineup. I don't know if all out retaliation is even worth it anymore.

[Lunatic]

I have drunk the NHL's Cool Aide, that they are attempting to increase speed and skill and reduce violence. For that to work, the officials and also DPS need to take effective action against unwarranted violence, to reach the NHL's goal. I am not in favor of gratuitous violence, but when the officials and DPS very selectively enforce the "rules", they leave the protection and player safety up to the offended team. It is not G's place to retaliate, however, I am at a point of frustration with the NHL, that I would not mind seeing Gudas, throw one of his jarring checks on Matthews. It would result in a long suspension for Gudas, but it hopefully would send a needed message to the NHL powers-to- be and the rest of the league that , attempt to injure a Flyer at your own risk!

[Jam1986]

On 11/5/2017 at 4:09 PM, Lunatic said:

I have drunk the NHL's Cool Aide, that they are attempting to increase speed and skill and reduce violence. For that to work, the officials and also DPS need to take effective action against unwarranted violence, to reach the NHL's goal. I am not in favor of gratuitous violence, but when the officials and DPS very selectively enforce the "rules", they leave the protection and player safety up to the offended team. It is not G's place to retaliate, however, I am at a point of frustration with the NHL, that I would not mind seeing Gudas, throw one of his jarring checks on Matthews. It would result in a long suspension for Gudas, but it hopefully would send a needed message to the NHL powers-to- be and the rest of the league that , attempt to injure a Flyer at your own risk!

Would be nice to see them have some grit!

[King Knut]

On 11/5/2017 at 1:38 PM, Jam1986 said:

Sorry for being so late on  this. The hit on Vlasic  by Johansen was a cheap hit. Next time out there Pavelski goes right after Johansen. Why didn't G  go after Komarov his hit was. cheap on Ghost? Really why didn't any Flyer on the ice didn't go after him? So who is the better Captain? I think about the same they are but it irk me nobody went after Kormarov! If I'm wrong right my mistake on this.Once again sorry about the be late on this.

 

How does Giroux getting his butt kicked, put in the box and or suspended help the team win games?

 

The problem isn't Giroux as captain, the problem is the league is a paradox.  It wants fewer of these kinds of injuries and hits, but then it refuses to punish them.  

 

It's been a slow shift away from enforcers, but you see if now shifting back and specifically because the league simply isn't getting the job of policing these guys done on it's own.

 

Gudas lost man games due to a dirty hit, Couturier almost did, Ghost lost a few and Patrick is still losing them (albeit to a hit I wouldn't consider dirty). 

 

When's it enough?  

 

What's the appropriate response?  Part of me says that it isn't appropriate to go after Komarov.  What's that accomplish?  You get suspended and at best take on of their less dynamic players off the ice as punishment for taking perhaps your own most dynamic player off the ice?  

 

Even if the league punished Komarov, does that really hurt the Maples Leafs?  It hurts him.  Does it hurt the team?  Does it Hurt Babcock enough for him to say to his locker room, "Listen up Jerks, this sketchy hitting is costing us wins?"  

 

Doubtful, but it's worth a shot.  

 

I think you have to threaten to take an eye for an eye.  You have to put Matthews at risk.  

Now this sounds horrible and unsporting and I don't like it... and none of it would be necessary if the league would just do it's damn job.

 

The problem is it's not worth it to risk losing Giroux, who probably wouldn't even be good at it... It's not worth losing virtually anyone else on this Flyers team.  Weise maybe... but then the problem you have is that Weise develops "A Reputation" and as we've seen, will then get suspended for routine and totally clean hits.  

 

You could bring a guy up from the Phantoms for just a game in order to scare the poop out of or in fact attempt to injure McDavid, but in this day and age of hockey where lines play more even distribution of minutes and every player is expected to contribute, what does that do to your chances of winning if you skate one schlub who has no business in the league simply to try to get payback?

 

Also, say you're successful and you take Matthews out of the game or injure him enough to take him out for a few weeks or even longer.. then you've just made life easier for everyone else the Maple Leafs play and it only really benefits your own team a few games out of the year and in the off chance you might play them in the playoffs.

 

I think ultimately, Hextall just has to jabber the damn league's ear off.  Or have the team make a stink.  Threaten to with hold profit sharing if the league doesn't start policing more fairly.  The Flyers are one of the teams that help the NHL succeed despite so many other teams being less profitable.  You'd think the league would want to take care of their players at least as much as other teams.  

 

Lastly, I put some onus on the NHLPA for this crap.  They need to include this in the complaining they do during CBA negotiations and when a player like Ghost gets hurt on a dangerous hit but no action is taken, they need to go crazy in the press and threaten legal repercussions on behalf of the collective of players they purport to represent.

 

It's enough already.  If this league is going to crack down on dangerous hitting, they need to actually crack the eff down on dangerous hitting.  

 

I'm stick and tired of watching players I like take suspensions for hits that aren't illegal and shouldn't be that dangerous while simultaneously seeing other players I like lose lots of games and have their careers shortened due to dangerous and blatantly illegal hits.  

 

It's a dangerous game and as the hit on Patrick reveals, some damaging hits are clean and can't be policed.  I don't think anyone did anything wrong on that play other than that Patrick really could have anticipated the hit a bit if he'd been more aware of his surroundings.  I can't complain about that hit.  But the Komarov hit and the ones on Gudas and Couturier need to be punished.  They're not okay.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[King Knut]

On 11/5/2017 at 4:09 PM, Lunatic said:

I have drunk the NHL's Cool Aide, that they are attempting to increase speed and skill and reduce violence. For that to work, the officials and also DPS need to take effective action against unwarranted violence, to reach the NHL's goal. I am not in favor of gratuitous violence, but when the officials and DPS very selectively enforce the "rules", they leave the protection and player safety up to the offended team. It is not G's place to retaliate, however, I am at a point of frustration with the NHL, that I would not mind seeing Gudas, throw one of his jarring checks on Matthews. It would result in a long suspension for Gudas, but it hopefully would send a needed message to the NHL powers-to- be and the rest of the league that , attempt to injure a Flyer at your own risk!

 

Yeah, I tend to agree... I just wish I didn't.  The long story short though, is that it can't be Gudas until at least Morin is healthy again.  We can't afford to be dressing O'Neill any more than we have to.  

[Jam1986]

I'm a old school guy! Sorry! Remember when Wendell Clark ran Howe Tocchet went after him and pummeled him. One of best fights ever. That is the fight we want not stage ones and no more brawls either.. Also you right too. Check it out on YouTube

 

 

[FD19372]

No bad deeds unpunished...suit him up.

 

GM/Goalie. Why the hell not?

[OccamsRazor]

18 hours ago, King Knut said:

Gudas lost man games due to a dirty hit

 

Gudas hit nor Patrick hit was dirty.

 

The Ghost one was certainly a dirty one that was a travesty that the NHL even though it went uncalled in the game had chance to fix afterwards and chise to do nada.

 

Yes that one would be yes a reason for other teams to have a call to arms for the return of the goons.

 

However i would not want my Flyers to follow suit like that and return to the goon days.

 

But i would be ok with callup and suiting up Goulbourne to play in a game for the the enforcer role.

 

He can skate and play too not just an old school enforcer type.

 

You must fight fire with fire and if the NHL don't want to protect ALL players then teams will need to do what they need to do to protect their own.

 

I hate that it would come to this.

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Gudas hit nor Patrick hit was dirty.

 

 

While it wasn't a head hunting check or board like the Couturier or Ghost hits, Saad elbowed Gudas in the face rather violently.  I'm sure he argued that it was inadvertent, but I call BS.  Watching the replay, he clearly tried to take a preemptive jab at Radko before getting hit himself.  While I'm sure Saad knew Radko was coming, I'm also relatively sure that he didn't know he'd be hitting him in the face, but that doesn't make it okay or clean.  

 

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

The Ghost one was certainly a dirty one that was a travesty that the NHL even though it went uncalled in the game had chance to fix afterwards and chise to do nada.

 

 

The lack of League action on the Ghost hit is one of the most egregious smudges against this league, it's biases and it's faulty disciplinary and player safety practices that I've seen so far.  And that's saying something.  

 

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

But i would be ok with callup and suiting up Goulbourne to play in a game for the the enforcer role.

 

He can skate and play too not just an old school enforcer type.

 

 

I think that's sort of what I had in mind.  I guess I was just jumping to Hakstol not wanting to actually play him play him for more than 7 minutes a night and then also I was jumping to the subsequent suspension Goulbourne would probably face. 

 

There's also an ethical problem I have with asking a player to do that in this day and age.  We know what concussions do.  We know what a great many concussions do to a player over his career (See Boogard).  I can't see asking a player finally getting his shot in the pros to go out and intentionally do that to a guy.

 

By the same token however, I can't understand how a guy like Shenn or Komarov feels just fine taking a guy's well being into his hands like that.  

 

I know flyers have been guilty of similar things (lately it's GUdas) but honestly, from my eyes, Gudas really seems to have taken his suspensions to heart and spend a long time trying to hit more cleanly and ensure that they were legal.  After this still resulted in several reviewed (and dismissed) hits and a suspension (on what I consider a relatively clean hit) Gudas upon advice from his coach and GM I assume just doesn't hit like that much at all anymore.  The league literally policed even the legal and clean hitting out of his game.

 

Setting aside how right or wrong that is for a moment, why the hell won't they do the same thing to other offenders?  And why the hell won't the team, Hextall or Comcast go ballistic over it?  

 

Hell, make Homer do it.  Everyone around the league already hates his ass.  Have him raise bloody murder and get fined or whatever.  What else is he doing?

 

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

You must fight fire with fire and if the NHL don't want to protect ALL players then teams will need to do what they need to do to protect their own.

 

I hate that it would come to this.

 

I hate agreeing with this, because I don't think it's a good answer, but when the league won't do it's job to protect it's players, I believe it is incumbent upon the teams to protect their own players.  And yes... I think going after Komarov isn't appropriate.  Go after JVR, go after Matthews, Go after Kadri or Marleau.  Go after the players equivalent to Ghost.  Skilled players who don't hit hard or dirty themselves.  And when Babcock and Shanahan (we may start to understand why there was no suspension here) and Lamoriello all go ballistic over it, the appropriate public response is that "Our players were just following the precedent established by the league the last time our teams played each other.  If you have a problem with that, take it up with the office of player safety.  If the office of player safety has a problem with it, they can discuss it with our attorneys."  And if you use Goulbourne, you can send him back down and if you use Gudas and they try to suspend him, you friggin' dress Gudas and tell the league to damn well prove their case in a public forum if they want to treat teams with double standards like this.  

 

In essence, stop d**king around and playing by their crooked rules.  I'm sick of my favorite players getting hurt.  Really damn sick of it.  

 

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

I hate that it would come to this.

 

You and me both Occ... you and me both.  I just can't figure out what's going to happen to get Hextall and Hackstol on board too.  

 

[King Knut]

11 hours ago, FD19372 said:

No bad deeds unpunished...suit him up.

 

GM/Goalie. Why the hell not?

 

I've talked about this before... now that Hextall is in a position to make some hay about tall this kind of thing... where the hell is he?  He's mr. mild mannered chill out guy?  WTF?

[King Knut]

16 hours ago, Jam1986 said:

I'm a old school guy! Sorry! Remember when Wendell Clark ran Howe Tocchet went after him and pummeled him. One of best fights ever. That is the fight we want not stage ones and no more brawls either.. Also you right too. Check it out on YouTube

 

 

 

Not only that, when you watch it on youtube another flyer (can't tell who, Carson maybe?) takes a head shot at Clark before he's even on his feet again.  

[OccamsRazor]

55 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Saad elbowed Gudas in the face rather violently.  I'm sure he argued that it was inadvertent, but I call BS.

 

He had his back turned and Gudas ran into his elbow no way i can blame it on Saad that was on Gudas i would have been pissed if roles would have been reversed and they called that on Gudas.

 

That was on Radko he was going to give a check and didn't see the elbow.

[King Knut]

46 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

He had his back turned and Gudas ran into his elbow no way i can blame it on Saad that was on Gudas i would have been pissed if roles would have been reversed and they called that on Gudas.

 

That was on Radko he was going to give a check and didn't see the elbow.

 

Okay, this is gonna have to be one of those where we just accept different perspectives.  

Like I said, I could see where Saad might not have realized he was going to elbow him directly in the noggin, but the elbow was an intentional defense of a hit he knew was coming.  

 

The argument could be made that Saad, being aware of the kind of hit that knocked Ghost out of the lineup was acting preemptively in his defense against a similar boarding.  But at the end of the day, it was an unnecessary and intentional elbow (if not intended to be to his face).  That gets called.  If it had been his stick, it would have been called.  

 

Frankly if Radko or any other Flyer elbowed a guy in the face, intentionally or not, I'd totally understand if he was put in the box.  

 

I might not like it, but I'd understand.  

[Jam1986]

Ron Sutter miss those teams.Heart and stuck up for their team.