Who should replace Hakstol?

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

That's a coaching problem.  

 

 

Maybe if anything it's time to show Lappy the door....

 

 

 

If not now then when?

[King Knut]

6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Maybe if anything it's time to show Lappy the door....

 

If not now then when?

 

If they have a replacement in mind, it's a start.  Lappy may be an excellent example of the Peter Principle in this instance.  Fantastic penalty killer... maybe not the best manager of penalty kills.  

 

It would be a start.  It's not as if we don't like the guy.  Strength and Conditioning was his last job right?

 

Still... if they can bring in a strong PK specialist and if Knoblach can be the bench buy and can tell Hak when to call a damn timeout and can yap at them to bolster them when they're on their heels then I'm fine with keeping Hak.

Takes a village to make the playoffs?

[otto12]

Hire Toe Blake. He won a 1000 cups. Oh wait, the Habs had more talent than the rest of the NHL.combined.

 

The talent level of our young forwards is seriously overrated.

[brelic]

6 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

I don't think either of us means we'd be a better coach.  But I think it would occur to most of us to say something like... "Hey guys.   Try harder."   or to calla timeout and say, "Hey guys... we're kinda losing control of things here.  let's regain some composure and get back to our game plan."  

 

These are things Hakstol doesn't seem to even notice COULD happen.  The guy barely seems to acknowledge that his team just went from being up two goals to being tied.  

 

Maybe we wouldn't be good at the between periods Herb Brooks "go get 'em kids!" speech... but I think most of us would at least realize that something like that is called for.  

 

Just a thought, but when you (and I think others have as well) say that Hakstol can’t or doesn’t make adjustments during the game, and the 3rd period especially, is it possible that it’s less about him than it is about the young inexperienced team just being unable to overcome a push at the NHL level? They’ve done it many times this season in the early going, protecting leads. But now that experienced teams have settled and found their rhythm, it’s that much harder. 

 

The truth is is the vast majority of this roster has no playoff experience, and that counts for something. 

 

Im not absolving Hakstol in any way, because I think it is clear that he’s having to learn on the job too. And he has struggled.  I mean, if it takes rookie players 2-4 years to really figure out the NHL, what works , what doesn’t, isn’t it possible that it takes a similar amount of time for a coach who jumps from NCAA straight to the NHL?

 

 

[brelic]

In case you haven’t read it, Meltzer’s blog was excellent today. Very fair and thorough analysis on a number of things. 

 

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-Meltzer/Meltzers-Musings-Weal-Elliott-Even-Strength-Points-Frost-and-Much-More/45/89291

 

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, brelic said:

 

Just a thought, but when you (and I think others have as well) say that Hakstol can’t or doesn’t make adjustments during the game, and the 3rd period especially, is it possible that it’s less about him than it is about the young inexperienced team just being unable to overcome a push at the NHL level? They’ve done it many times this season in the early going, protecting leads. But now that experienced teams have settled and found their rhythm, it’s that much harder. 

 

The truth is is the vast majority of this roster has no playoff experience, and that counts for something. 

 

Im not absolving Hakstol in any way, because I think it is clear that he’s having to learn on the job too. And he has struggled.  I mean, if it takes rookie players 2-4 years to really figure out the NHL, what works , what doesn’t, isn’t it possible that it takes a similar amount of time for a coach who jumps from NCAA straight to the NHL?

 

I've been seeing and complaining about the same thing for three years.  They haven't been green that whole time.  Their coach has.  

 

Do do they not have time outs in NCAA hockey?  

 

 

 

 

[King Knut]

5 hours ago, otto12 said:

Hire Toe Blake. He won a 1000 cups. Oh wait, the Habs had more talent than the rest of the NHL.combined.

 

The talent level of our young forwards is seriously overrated.

 

Is the talent level of the Oilers forwards overrated?  The Flyers are doing better.  

 

 

[otto12]

OK.  Replace McCellan.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

I still question whether Hakstol should take the fall for how bad the Flyers have been playing because, honestly, he doesn't have a ton to work with.....however, if it really IS determined that the head coach simply isn't getting the proper development out of his young players and the proper motivation from his vets and he must be shown the door, why not go with a guy with extensive coaching experience, albeit majority of it minor league, and a guy who knows the young up n coming Flyers both in Lehigh and playing currently for the Flyers:

Scott Gordon, current coach of the Phantoms.

 

Other teams have had success promoting a minor league guy who knows the personnel and understands them well.

Sure, Hakstol worked with young players too, but it was a completely different program in North Dakota and those were college players.

 

Scott Gordon has been around lots of young talent for a long time, has coached quite a bit all over the minors, had a brief stint as an NHL head coach a while back, and has overseen the development of some of the young guys Philadelphia has on their roster now.

 

I apologize if his name already came up in this thread...I really didn't read through all 9 pages to know for sure, but I say, the season is basically lost, use the rest of it for the front office to continue to evaluate player performances, let Hakstol ride out the rest of the season, leave Scott Gordon doing his thing in Lehigh (he has the team playing well down there), and at season's end THEN make the change, promote Gordon and thank Hakstol for his time and wish him luck in his future endeavors.

 

Just a thought.

[elmatus]

57 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

I still question whether Hakstol should take the fall for how bad the Flyers have been playing because, honestly, he doesn't have a ton to work with

 

I have to wonder what exactly you mean by this. The Flyers have plenty of talent. In fact, this is exactly what has many of us so frustrated. If the team had a huge lack of good players, it would be easier to handle the losing. For this current roster, skill isn't the issue. Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Couturier, Ghost, Provorov -- of these guys are above-average to elite players. That's more than many other teams who are doing better (The Devils came up as a point of discussion the other day).

 

So if skill isn't the problem, what is?

 

A good chunk of their roster is inexperienced (TK, Sanheim, Patrick, Ghost, Provo, Weal, Laughton). That's very likely one part. Their current goalie tandem is comprised of a pair of back ups. That's very likely another. There are a handful of boat anchors who continue to see far too much ice time (Weise, Lehtera). There's a third.

 

Beyond all that though, after losing ten straight and frankly not seeming to be any better than last season, I think it's very fair to wonder if the coaching is also part of the problem. Is Hakstol completely to blame? No. He's not the one on the ice. But it is completely fair to wonder if he's in over his head.

 

The Flyers have a team that should at the very least be flirting with a playoff birth, yet they're very far from it at this point. The numbers don't line up.

[brelic]

21 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

I have to wonder what exactly you mean by this. The Flyers have plenty of talent. In fact, this is exactly what has many of us so frustrated. If the team had a huge lack of good players, it would be easier to handle the losing. For this current roster, skill isn't the issue. Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Couturier, Ghost, Provorov -- of these guys are above-average to elite players. That's more than many other teams who are doing better (The Devils came up as a point of discussion the other day).

 

So if skill isn't the problem, what is?

 

A good chunk of their roster is inexperienced (TK, Sanheim, Patrick, Ghost, Provo, Weal, Laughton). That's very likely one part. Their current goalie tandem is comprised of a pair of back ups. That's very likely another. There are a handful of boat anchors who continue to see far too much ice time (Weise, Lehtera). There's a third.

 

Beyond all that though, after losing ten straight and frankly not seeming to be any better than last season, I think it's very fair to wonder if the coaching is also part of the problem. Is Hakstol completely to blame? No. He's not the one on the ice. But it is completely fair to wonder if he's in over his head.

 

The Flyers have a team that should at the very least be flirting with a playoff birth, yet they're very far from it at this point. The numbers don't line up.

 

Meltzer brought up a great point the other day. 

 

For calendar year 2016, the Flyers had the 4th best record in the NHL. For 2017, they stand 25th (if my memory isn't failing me). 

 

So if he gets blamed for the bad, shouldn't he get credit for the good?

 

And if so, then we need to examine why the disparity. 

 

The first thing that comes to mind? A much younger, more inexperienced team than last year. 

 

That's not the whole story, of course, because they played poorly at the end of last season too with a more experienced roster. 

 

Let's face it - there are only a handful of systems in use in the NHL, and at the end of the day, the coach isn't the one playing the games. 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

honestly, he doesn't have a ton to work with.

 

 

He has got some good young talent to work with. They are like i said young.

 

Provorov-20

Ghost-24

Sanheim-

Hagg-22

 

Konecny-20

Patrick-19

Weal-25

Leier-23

Laughton-23

Coots-25

Martel-23

 

That is 11 guys on your roster that are 25 or younger. So just not a lot of experience to draw back on.

 

Trial by fire and they have got screwed by a lot of bad calls and bad bounces. Hopefully it evens out.

 

This team reminds me a lot of the Eagles from last year in that they would find ways to fall apart and lose games instead of playing well for 60 minutes and finding ways to grind out wins. And a year later look at the Eagles. Hands down best team in the NFL.

 

Time and maturity goes a long ways. This may slide like a turd the rest of the year.

 

Then maybe they grow and are a better team next year.

 

Or then could get better this year. A this point i can't call it.

 

[brelic]

Hextall's on the trip with the team per Carchidi.

 

Could be nothing, could be something. 

[OccamsRazor]

40 minutes ago, elmatus said:

So if skill isn't the problem, what is?

 

Confidence and grinding out wins and finding way to win and finish on top at the end of the game.

 

They (see my last post) are like the Eagles of last year.

 

They fell apart and find ways to lose.

 

Fast forward a year later and they are confident and relentless and find ways to win and keep their foot on their opponents throats....don't let them up off the floor to get their whooped.

 

Maturity/experience goes a long ways.

 

Finish the game play for 60 minutes!

 

The Flyers need their best players to play like their best players.

 

They are not.

 

For one guy in particular (and you are goddamn right i'm singling him out) Jake has played like shi it for over a year and a half....taking bad penalties and making brain dead plays just to kill this team. He is making to much f**king money to be playing like this.

 

And if he don't like i don't give a shi it time to put on his damn big boy pants and go help his damn team win instead of hurting them.

 

Now he isn't the only one but a lot of vets on this team are just not playing like it.

 

And the biggest culprit is their goalie who has played the most games.

 

Elliot has been very weak at the worst damn times. There is no damn way in hell those players feel confident he will bailed them out if they f**K up.

 

Nope in the net every damn time!

 

So yeah this team lacks confidence....and it starts from the net out!

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, brelic said:

Hextall's on the trip with the team per Carchidi.

 

Could be nothing, could be something. 

 

 

maybe some heads are gonna roll......

[ruxpin]

14 minutes ago, brelic said:

Hextall's on the trip with the team per Carchidi.

 

Could be nothing, could be something. 

Could be. 

Maybe he's putting some eyes on RNH (I'm lukewarm to that idea at best, so just throwing possibilities out there). 

[elmatus]

24 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

For one guy in particular (and you are goddamn right i'm singling him out) Jake has played like shi it for over a year and a half....taking bad penalties and making brain dead plays just to kill this team. He is making to much f**king money to be playing like this.

 

I honestly can't believe I'm the one defending Voracek lately. I've always found him to be remarkably overrated.

 

That said, the GVC trio is currently one of the very best lines in the league, and they have been all season. Again, I 100% agree with anyone on here stating that Voracek should be traded, yaddi yadda, but Voracek is not the reason the team is in this situation. He's producing, as are his linemates. In fact, they're the only ones who are.

 

I'm with you about him -- i am! He takes bad penalties. He coughs up the puck regularly. For every shot he makes he misses the net five times. His passes and pass reception make my four year old son look like the second coming of Datsyuk. Despite all that, he is at the very least pulling his weight this season as far as scoring goes.

 

52 minutes ago, brelic said:

For calendar year 2016, the Flyers had the 4th best record in the NHL. For 2017, they stand 25th (if my memory isn't failing me). 

 

So if he gets blamed for the bad, shouldn't he get credit for the good?

 

That to me suggests he is in fact losing the bench, not the other way around. Much is said about the inexperienced blueline, but Provo is still playing very well despite it all, and Ghost has been doing what he does best most of the time (better than he was doing last season). And -- for the second time I can't believe I'm saying this -- but MacDud has actually been rather solid for the first time since he's been in the O&B. I have no idea how that happens. Maybe the added leadership role has given him wings or something, I dunno. All I know is, to my eyes, he's never been solid, and he is this season.

 

That leaves Hagg and Sanheim on the back end. Are they playing badly? I think they have had some pretty bad stretches, yes. Who did they replace though?

 

Streit? Schultz?

 

Yeah sure, both of those guys are more experienced. They also probably shouldn't have been in the NHL last season. In comparison, though Hagg has slipped up enough this season -- as he is entitled to -- he's still playing better than those two. He's an improvement over them imo without doubt. Sanheim has slipped up a bit more. Really, I would argue he could have spent some AHL time this season. But he played very well in preseason, and they dont' really have anyone who can take his place on the club, so here he is.

 

That said, Sanheim plays on the third pairing and gets limited ice time at best. Would Streit and/or Schultz be better than him with all their experience? Maybe a bit, but not so much really. Do they make a big enough difference that the team as a whole is playing much better -- I don't think so...

 

Who else? MDZ? Yeah, I will say he would have been nice to still have around. Schenn? Well the secondary scoring was useful for sure. Cousins? Meh. CVV? Double meh. Bellemare? I think Laughton's been better.

 

Elliott? Maybe if he was replacing a better goalie. He's not. Mason and Elliott are about on par imo.

 

In all, I really don't know that the roster changes can be blamed for too much, especially when you consider the essential rebirth of Giroux and the remarkable emergence of Couturier...

 

Again, I just feel something isn't adding up. I for one do question if coaching is part of the issue. In fact, I think that's a pretty logical thing to do given the circumstances.

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, elmatus said:

That said, the GVC trio is currently one of the very best lines in the league

 

Yes. Despite Jake. Amazing. Bravo. If Jake could get his head out his ass he could probably see.

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, elmatus said:

but Voracek is not the reason the team is in this situation.

 

 

Sure he is not the sole reason. But he is a big one.

 

 

The above play is a perfect example of his head up his ass costing them a 2nd point in OT. This is one of may he has caused them and i'm not going to comb and find every goddamn i don't have the time orven care too.

 

I know what i have seen over the last year and a half and it has to stop.

 

And trust me he is benefiting a lot from playing with Coots and Giroux than they are from playing with him.

 

He is a key vet on this team and needs to play like it for a full game.

[elmatus]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Sure he is not the sole reason. But he is a big one.

 

 

Voracek isn't playing any worse than he has in the past. He's always been the guy you mention. The difference is he was barely scoring prior to this season, and now he's leading the team in points. Again, I'm by no means a Voracek fan, but simple math suggests that if a player is producing at easily double what he was the season prior, and beyond that is playing at pretty much the same level, he's probably not the reason for losing... if anything, that's a net positive.

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, elmatus said:

he's probably not the issue...

 

Semantics. He is a part of it.

 

[OccamsRazor]

19 minutes ago, elmatus said:

Again, I just feel something isn't adding up. I for one do question if coaching is part of the issue. In fact, I think that's a pretty logical thing to do given the circumstances.

 

 

This year the powerplay: 21st at 17.4%

 

http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?report=powerplay&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20172018&seasonTo=20172018&gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=ppPctg

 

Last year powerplay: 14th at 19.5%

 

http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?report=powerplay&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20162017&seasonTo=20162017&gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=ppPctg

 

HHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmm so is it better with Knoblach?

 

PK last year as 21st this year it's 28th.

 

So easily they fix their 5 on 5 play and their special teams go in the shitter!

 

 

 

[ruxpin]

11 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Semantics. He is a part of it.

 

He's wearing orange and black, so he's part of it. 

 

I'd trade him for a Klondike Bar, but @elmatus is right. If he's still as stupid as he's always been (dumb as dog ****) but is producing much more than previously, then he's not the difference between when they were supposedly good in 2016 and suck now.

 

I don't have the memory to come up with anecdotal examples of his blowing games (you and I have previously kvetched about the play you posted. It was one of consecutive games he made a game blowing play), and maybe his horrible plays formerly were earlier in games or something so harder to point directly at him other than, "he needs to start scoring."  But I don't think he's the negative difference between 2016 and now. 

 

Something else has changed that the team isn't able to compensate for his boneheadedness despite his increased production. 

 

The biggest things are youth and an incompetent coaching staff. 

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

25 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

He's wearing orange and black, so he's part of it.

 

Exactly. I am in no way saying that if your remove him the Cup is theirs.

 

I'm just saying remove his head from his own arse! And then go from there. Baby steps.

 

No this teams problem can't be pinpointed to just one thing. It's the culmination of many different ones coming together through out the game to finally giving them their death knell by the time the 3rd ends or OT starts.

 

And one of them is their goaltender. He just doesn't inspire confidence.

 

And it shows in the way they collapse every time they make a mistake.

 

Then to throw gas on the fire the head coach and they way he will bench a kid for a mistake yet the vets seem to have an endless amount of mistakes and are never held accountable.

 

It's like he is is ass backwards.

 

The rookies have to me sound in every aspect of the game and even when they get to play they can not/better not make a damn mistake or it's the bench you get.

 

And the vets the guys the kids lean on/learn from can f**K up over and over and again and are never singled out or held accountable.

 

It to me is just a flawed way to teach a young team half full of kids.

 

And yet now we see what it gets you. A team with almost as many shutouts and they have wins. Very very sad times.

 

Go Eagles!!!!!!!!

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

@ruxpin

 

Well Mike Keenan has been relieved of his head coach job in Russia so he is available!!!