Regarding the Vegas Knights and Former Flyers

[murraycraven]

19 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

No he was not. before this year the last two years of the AHL he only missed two games and he was suspended for those.

 

Kid has be pretty healthy for as physical as he plays.

 

 

The only time he missed in junior was a broken jaw can't fault him for that.

 

I thought he had an injury prior to the jaw.  My mistake.

 

so a kid that is still an unknown is going to come in after a year he played 15 (?) games, and now has a long road to recovery before the start of next camp,  will be the savior  of shutdown defense?   Sorry, but he is now below Myers.  And Myers is actually quite deft on the defensive side of the puck.  

 

 He could very well be the 7th dman next year.  Would you rather him in the rafters or playing hockey in the AHL?  The Flyers are at a crossroads.   Either put him in the lineup, put him as the 7th or stash him in the AHL.   I am not saying the kid is going to be a bad player but I think folks are a little overboard thinking he is going to easily be on the roster next year.   He has to get healthy and stay healthy and then win a spot over Myers in my mind.  Myers has been a minute eating defensive stud for the Phantoms.  In my mind he and Sanheim are well ahead of Sam on the depth chart at this point.

[ruxpin]

4 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

 

I am just giving you my gut feeling.   I think he has fallen a bit out of favor with the brass.   Not saying he is not going to be a good player, I have my doubts, but I feel like he is the one that is going to get traded.  He was always a "project" in terms of his skill-set and I would love to see him in the lineup but he is still very much an unknown. 

 

I could be way off base but he is now behind Myers when it comes to the defensive prospect ladder.   I welcome the opportunity to be wrong but it is just the way I feel.

 

Oh yeah, we're both just talking opinions/predicting.

 

I don't think I see anything to base "fallen out of favor with the brass" on, but certainly could be wrong.  I also don't think he's behind Myers.  I do think Myers will be on the Flyers first, but I think that's largely due to the fact that Morin looks to be on the shelf until November.  The other thing in Myers' favor is that he plays right defense, where the logjam isn't as clogged as on the left side.

 

But they play two entirely different games.  Myers is very likely an improvement upon what they already have, whereas Morin is something they actually don't have:  a tough crease clearer who is positionally sound and can potentially alter another teams' approach.

 

They just have to get  him healthy and keep him healthy.  That wasn't a problem until this season.

[ruxpin]

5 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

Would you rather him in the rafters or playing hockey in the AHL? 

 

They don't have the option of AHL.  He's no longer waiver-exempt.  He will be on the Flyers or another NHL roster, but I think the latter is a grotesque mistake.

 

And yes, I do think think he'll be a very good defensive shutdown guy.  He looked very good last year in camp and preseason and it's only because of our idiot coach that he didn't get the start.

[murraycraven]

12 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Oh yeah, we're both just talking opinions/predicting.

 

I don't think I see anything to base "fallen out of favor with the brass" on, but certainly could be wrong.  I also don't think he's behind Myers.  I do think Myers will be on the Flyers first, but I think that's largely due to the fact that Morin looks to be on the shelf until November.  The other thing in Myers' favor is that he plays right defense, where the logjam isn't as clogged as on the left side.

 

But they play two entirely different games.  Myers is very likely an improvement upon what they already have, whereas Morin is something they actually don't have:  a tough crease clearer who is positionally sound and can potentially alter another teams' approach.

 

They just have to get  him healthy and keep him healthy.  That wasn't a problem until this season.

 

 

also, I was just looking at his minor league stats.  The Q plays a 68 game schedule back to 2011-12.  He played 62 games in 11-12, 46 games in 12-13, 54 in 13-14 and then 38 in 14-15.   He has had his share of injuries...   he would average around 50 games per season out of a 68 games.  I haven't looked as to why he was out so there might be other reasons.  

[murraycraven]

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

 

They don't have the option of AHL.  He's no longer waiver-exempt.  He will be on the Flyers or another NHL roster, but I think the latter is a grotesque mistake.

 

The could stash him in the AHL for the entire year though correct?  I understand he is not longer waiver exempt so if they brought him up to the NHL he would need to stay.   

[FD19372]

So maybe NOW finally after 40 years, we start building our team from the goaltending out, and also have a lot of speed?

[ruxpin]

15 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

 

also, I was just looking at his minor league stats.  The Q plays a 68 game schedule back to 2011-12.  He played 62 games in 11-12, 46 games in 12-13, 54 in 13-14 and then 38 in 14-15.   He has had his share of injuries...   

 

Yeah, the 38 was the broken jaw.

I don't know about the 62 games in 11-12, but it was his first year so perhaps he was simply a scratch?    The type of game he plays, he's going to miss some here or there, though.  [EDIT:  I looked at this year before the below, so now I'm thinking 62 is actually high for this team]

Not sure about the 46 games but that season only 2 defensemen on that team played more than 60 games.   He was among 4 defensemen that played between 42 and 48 games.

The 54 games in 13-14:  Again, only 2 defensemen played over 60 games.  He's among three that played 54-55 games.

 

I don't know what would cause that as I don't get to watch a lot of juniors.   I don't know if that's common or something odd with this team, but it seems systemic rather than necessarily an injury thing.

[ruxpin]

11 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

The could stash him in the AHL for the entire year though correct?  I understand he is not longer waiver exempt so if they brought him up to the NHL he would need to stay.   

 

I'm not clear on this, but it's my understanding from others on here that the problem is sending him down initially.   There are no re-entry waivers, so I don't think there's a problem bringing him up.  But, like I say, I'm not entirely clear on it, just that I was thoroughly convinced by others that this isn't an option (who knows?  Maybe I'm misinterpreting what they said!).

[murraycraven]

20 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I'm not clear on this, but it's my understanding from others on here that the problem is sending him down initially.   There are no re-entry waivers, so I don't think there's a problem bringing him up.  But, like I say, I'm not entirely clear on it, just that I was thoroughly convinced by others that this isn't an option (who knows?  Maybe I'm misinterpreting what they said!).

 

I thought he could remain in the AHL the entire year.  They are not forced to bring him up.  He is not waiver exempt so if they brought him up the NHL he would have to stick.  Otherwise, he would be claimed off of waivers if they sent him down.   

[AJgoal]

9 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

I thought he could remain in the AHL the entire year.  They are not forced to bring him up.  He is not waiver exempt so if they brought him up the NHL he would have to stick.  Otherwise, he would be claimed off of waivers if they sent him down.   

 

Waivers start prior to the playing year. All players with NHL contracts start on the NHL roster. They must then clear waivers (if they aren't exempt) to be assigned to the AHL. There's no "free" timeframe in which a player need not be waived once their exemption expires. 

 

I do think that if Morin is unable to go in camp, and his rehab stretches into the regular season, he absolutely will get jumped by Myers on the depth chart, and Sanheim will solidify himself as an every day defenseman. That will leave him to battle with Hagg for that last left defenseman spot. Heck, I could see a scenario where the left side is Provorov - Ghostisbehere - Sanheim by the time he's ready to return. I don't think it's very likely, but I do think it plays better to the strengths of the players by having someone who can carry the puck well on each pairing. 

[elmatus]

16 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Not to change the subject but i thought this was interesting....

 

 

Seems to work. Kind of the opposite of Hak it seems.

 

Team MVP.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

 

Team MVP.

 

He would seriously be my vote if the coach were eligible.  Otherwise, it's Fleury in a walk.

[King Knut]

19 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well find it....sounds easy. I haven't seen it by anyone confirming it on twitter anywhere, even the guys who cover the Phantoms or Flyers.

 

Yeah, me either.  

[King Knut]

23 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Not worried about Morin at all. He's probably going to come back even better after the surgery. On top of it, he's going to get an opportunity to add some much needed weight to his frame. 6'7, 229 pounds is simply too light. If he were in the 235 to 240 range, that's ideal for Sam and his frame.

 

He'll go on LTIR to start the season, he'll get his clearance to play, he'll do a 2 week rehab assignment in Lehigh Valley, he'll get called up and be the 7th defenseman for about a month or two so he can get his game back and when he does, he starts out on the bottom pairing and works his way back into a role. 

 

ACL surgeries simply aren't the same that they used to be. Initially, it was a rather bad surgery that involved a near foot long scar (six inches above and below the knee), but arthroscopic surgery has changed all of that. It's four tiny drill holes in the side of the knee, they re-attach or completely replace the ACL (either using surgical rubber or an ACL from a cadaver) and it's just the healing time that needs to be waited on. What used to be a 9 month to a year long recovery time is now four to six months, depending on a variety of factors. So while Morin might be given a 6 month wait time, he could be back in as little as four now. Don't forget that a lot of athletes are using the blood platelet injections to help speed up recovery times as well, which also speeds up healing. 

 

Do we even know it's an ACL?

Are rehab stints exempt from waivers?

 

If so, after that he should clearly be the 7th man and can do spot fill in duty here and there until he's more up to game speed.

 

It's my firm belief that he SHOULD have made the team over Hagg out of camp.  No offense to Hagg, but there's simply more up side to Morin.  I think they all expected he'd be with the club by mid season and Gudas' suspension was the perfect opportunity, but he was hiding an injury... an injury that became apparent the minute they tried to call him up.

 

Because of this, it's my belief that had he been the one already on the team instead of Hagg, the Flyers trainers would have spotted this injury earlier and he would have been sat sooner instead of trying to play through it so he'd get his shot at the big club.

 

It's not Hextall's fault Morin was hurt and pretended he wasn't so he'd continue getting looks.  I don't blame him for that, it's just a coincidence.  BUT, I do blame Hextall and Hakstol for choosing the player who maybe had the slightest of edges out of camp, but who long term simply doesn't have the same up side.  Hagg could lead the league in hits every year, but ten of his hits won't have the game changing impact that one Morin hit could have.  

 

Morin's skill set and physical abilities fill this team's defensive holes so perfectly, NOT prioritizing his ascension to the professional team above all others was a serious mistake.  

 

Sanheim and Myers may well prove to be better assets in the long term, but what they bring are bonus things that the team isn't specifically lacking right now (or last october).  What Morin brings was exactly what the D was missing all year.  

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

He would seriously be my vote if the coach were eligible.  Otherwise, it's Fleury in a walk.

 

He's got the Jack Adams locked up.

 

This is literally the antithesis of Hakstol is it not?  

 

Gallant:  "If you avoid making mistakes, you're not going to play a good game."

Hakstol:  "Avoid making mistakes at all costs.  If you don't, I will out you in the press box until Hextall sends you to the minors for fear of you getting fat on pop corn and pepsi."

 

Aside from Fleury (who to be fair, is playing absolutely out of his mind... better than he EVER did in Pittsburgh) and maaaybe Engelland, There isn't a single player on the top two thirds lines of this vegas team that I would take over his equivalent on the Flyers. 

 

Hakstol is NOT a good NHL coach.  I'm sorry.  

 

 

 

 

 

[ruxpin]

4 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

He's got the Jack Adams locked up.

 

This is literally the antithesis of Hakstol is it not?  

 

Gallant:  "If you avoid making mistakes, you're not going to play a good game."

Hakstol:  "Avoid making mistakes at all costs.  If you don't, I will out you in the press box until Hextall sends you to the minors for fear of you getting fat on pop corn and pepsi."

 

Aside from Fleury (who to be fair, is playing absolutely out of his mind... better than he EVER did in Pittsburgh) and maaaybe Engelland, There isn't a single player on the top two thirds lines of this vegas team that I would take over his equivalent on the Flyers. 

 

Hakstol is NOT a good NHL coach.  I'm sorry.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't help but agree with that.   "NOT a good NHL coach" might be strong (might), but he certainly looks bad next to Gallant.  I thought he looked bad next to Sullivan and bunch of other coaches, too.  He's done some good things in terms of some player development, but overall I'm not exactly impressed.

[King Knut]

5 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I can't help but agree with that.   "NOT a good NHL coach" might be strong (might), but he certainly looks bad next to Gallant.  I thought he looked bad next to Sullivan and bunch of other coaches, too.  He's done some good things in terms of some player development, but overall I'm not exactly impressed.

 

I still stand by what I've said all along and I haven't seen anything remotely telling me to change that opinion:

 

I like him as an X's and O's guy.  But in game, behind the bench?  He's lost.  

After this season I'll add in that whatever he's telling the D men about coverage on odd man rushes and in sustained coverage their own end is back asswards. 

 

 

[ruxpin]

22 minutes ago, King Knut said:

I like him as an X's and O's guy.  But in game, behind the bench?  He's lost.  

After this season I'll add in that whatever he's telling the D men about coverage on odd man rushes and in sustained coverage their own end is back asswards. 

 

Yeah, I'm with you on this.