2018-19 Iowa Wild and other Wild Prospects Discussion

[rottenrefs]

22 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

 

The Wild have enough playmakers for two teams. Hopefully he stays away from the pierogi and keeps scoring goals in bunches...

And they keep wanting more. Mind boggling.

[Alexandron]

On 7/25/2018 at 6:18 PM, IllaZilla said:

 

The Wild have enough playmakers for two teams. Hopefully he stays away from the pierogi and keeps scoring goals in bunches...

About playmakers we said enough, but I would like to say a couple words about pierogi. For some people Russian pierogi or even American burgers could be a very addictive stuff. The most difficult part in a human’s life is to fight with their own exclusively personal addictive or even destructive stuff. The winners have a special personality, but the losers do not have it. I am more on a losers side, because very like both - Russian pierogi as well as American burgers.

[Fargocase]

On ‎7‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 7:54 AM, IllaZilla said:

 

 

This is why Thomas Vanek never worked out here. He's 100% cherry picker, or as we used to call them Suck-holes. All about scoring goals, hovering around the other teams blue line, constantly screaming "Pass it to me!" as the other four players on his team are trying to get the puck out of their own end against five opposing players. God we hated kids like that.

 

That's why I'm not holding my breath for Sokolov. Yeah, it'd be great to have someone on the team that finally shoots first and passes second, but if he can't show at least some defensive responsibility, he'll never make it out of Iowa.

 

Hi IllaZilla.  What was your username on the old official Wild message board?  I remember using the term suckhole and had people comment they had never heard that term used before for cherry picker players.

 

I've seen if before in Juniors - some kids have that God given talent and nose for the net.  Let's hope Sokolov turns into a Brett Hull clone.   The younger Hull was criticized for being a fat, lazy player, too.     That's why he was drafted so low, too.  Hopefully Sokolov smartens up and shapes up.

 

I'm very high on Greenway.  IMO the kid proved last year in the Playoffs he's ready for a full time NHL gig.  I love his attitude - he knows he's bigger and stronger than the large majority of players and he's perfectly willing to use that size and strength.  I just wish Coyle would get that concept!

 

Mark me down as a "meh" on Kunin, too.    All the heart and desire you could ask for, but size, strength, and speed are lacking.  I am NOT saying he's a bust, even with the busted knee, but he seems more like a Danny Irmen than a T.J Oshie to me.

[Alexandron]

14 minutes ago, Fargocase said:

 

Hi IllaZilla.  What was your username on the old official Wild message board? 

Fargo, IllaZilla's username was KISS(KissArmyman). 

[Alexandron]

I was thinking a lot where to put this message - at the prospects topic or at the free agent signings topic?

I chose in favor of prospects.

WHY?

I never understood for decades why we need to sign every year lots of free agent signings? I just understand maybe 1. They usually mainly old-ish, not productive , not flexible, not perspective used material stuff to work with. Very rare when we got a treasure (for example, Eric Staal,which is a hard working machine). Why we signed so many of them this year? Why we wasted so much money of our cap to sign them instead of saving for our new promising prospects? In my opinion, we should build attentively our team from the best selection to chose out of our NUMEROUS prospects( I am always believe that we can find/or even to build a treasure out youngsters we have) like from a new flexible scratch instead of choosing every year from the old stuff by creating multiple puzzles of who is who and how to use this who with whom. I think it is going to be a tough one for the Boudreau this year and looks like few free agent signings will sit on a press-box bench, because we do not have much room for them.

[hf101]

12 minutes ago, Alexandron said:

I never understood for decades why we need to sign every year lots of free agent signings? I just understand maybe 1. They usually mainly old-ish, not productive , not flexible, not perspective used material stuff to work with.

 

I've seen this for years with the Flyers also and Ron Hextall has shed some light on the reasonings for this.

 

These type of FA signings provide several things.  One they provide depth in the organization (NHL and AHL).  When teams rely too heavily on their unproven rookies at the NHL level they open themselves up for circumstances where they might need to make lopsided trades cover for the lack of depth in cases of key injuries.

 

The bottom tier signings are often for that 7th d-man and 13th forward who do a lot of bench warming.  But you need these guys to be there as you don't ever want your rookies sitting.  They are better off getting top minutes in the AHL than 6-7 min in the NHL.

 

They also provide competition.  At least for the Flyers if a rookie beats out a veteran for a roster spot in camp and is "ready" for a long season in the NHL the newly acquired FA will find himself waived and on the AHL roster.  IE  the situation with Matt Read last season.  Just because a prospect is termed valued doesn't mean a roster spot is handed to them.  

 

The AHL needs these veterans too to provide leadership for the franchise's prospects.

[IllaZilla]

1 hour ago, Fargocase said:

 

Hi IllaZilla.  What was your username on the old official Wild message board?  I remember using the term suckhole and had people comment they had never heard that term used before for cherry picker players.

 

I've seen if before in Juniors - some kids have that God given talent and nose for the net.  Let's hope Sokolov turns into a Brett Hull clone.   The younger Hull was criticized for being a fat, lazy player, too.     That's why he was drafted so low, too.  Hopefully Sokolov smartens up and shapes up.

 

I'm very high on Greenway.  IMO the kid proved last year in the Playoffs he's ready for a full time NHL gig.  I love his attitude - he knows he's bigger and stronger than the large majority of players and he's perfectly willing to use that size and strength.  I just wish Coyle would get that concept!

 

Mark me down as a "meh" on Kunin, too.    All the heart and desire you could ask for, but size, strength, and speed are lacking.  I am NOT saying he's a bust, even with the busted knee, but he seems more like a Danny Irmen than a T.J Oshie to me.

 

It's me, KA. Took the name of my favorite Vandals song "Illa Zilla (Ladykiller)".

 

When I was a kid we played pick up hockey on the East Side of St Paul and there was always that one kid that never came back and helped out. He always hung around the other end of the rink and kept screaming "Pass it to me! I'm open!" Yeah, no **** you're open, come back on defense and help out!

 

I would love to see the Wild leave their rookies in Iowa getting big minutes and proving they can dominate before they hand them a roster spot rather than giving them a roster spot on the bottom six and teaching them how to make popcorn in the  press box...

[IllaZilla]

1 hour ago, hf101 said:

 

I've seen this for years with the Flyers also and Ron Hextall has shed some light on the reasonings for this.

 

These type of FA signings provide several things.  One they provide depth in the organization (NHL and AHL).  When teams rely too heavily on their unproven rookies at the NHL level they open themselves up for circumstances where they might need to make lopsided trades cover for the lack of depth in cases of key injuries.

 

The bottom tier signings are often for that 7th d-man and 13th forward who do a lot of bench warming.  But you need these guys to be there as you don't ever want your rookies sitting.  They are better off getting top minutes in the AHL than 6-7 min in the NHL.

 

They also provide competition.  At least for the Flyers if a rookie beats out a veteran for a roster spot in camp and is "ready" for a long season in the NHL the newly acquired FA will find himself waived and on the AHL roster.  IE  the situation with Matt Read last season.  Just because a prospect is termed valued doesn't mean a roster spot is handed to them.  

 

The AHL needs these veterans too to provide leadership for the franchise's prospects.

 

Unless you're a Wild prospect...

[hf101]

1 hour ago, IllaZilla said:

 

Unless you're a Wild prospect...

 

With Fenton in charge, I forsee this approach being used for the Wild as well.  Nashville hasn't been a team to rush their prospects into the NHL either.

[IllaZilla]

3 hours ago, hf101 said:

 

With Fenton in charge, I forsee this approach being used for the Wild as well.  Nashville hasn't been a team to rush their prospects into the NHL either.

I’ll believe it when I see it. There are reports already that Jordan Greenway already has a roster spot...

[CreaseAndAssist]

The Athletic rates the Wild prospect pool 18th out of 31

 

If you have a subscription this a great read.  Kind of concerning when your top pick from this year is in the "has a chance" category versus Legit NHL prospect.  

[IllaZilla]

53 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

The Athletic rates the Wild prospect pool 18th out of 31

 

If you have a subscription this a great read.  Kind of concerning when your top pick from this year is in the "has a chance" category versus Legit NHL prospect.  

 

I noticed a lot of online rankings had the Wild around #20, and they all mentioned Kaprizov as the main reason the Wild weren't ranked lower...

[CreaseAndAssist]

1 hour ago, IllaZilla said:

 

I noticed a lot of online rankings had the Wild around #20, and they all mentioned Kaprizov as the main reason the Wild weren't ranked lower...

 

No question.  The fact he looks like a potential star certainly helps prop up a pretty thin group.  But our 1st pick from this year...just 'has a chance' ouch.  

[IllaZilla]

59 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

No question.  The fact he looks like a potential star certainly helps prop up a pretty thin group.  But our 1st pick from this year...just 'has a chance' ouch.  

 

 

[bbgarnett]

Just saw or 31in 31 posted by the NHL and was shocked when they were mentioning how good Chuck Fletcher and his team were at drafting and about how our Cupboard isn't empty by any stretch of the means. While yes the cupboard is isn't empty, how much of that stuff in the cupboard has passed its expiration date and is no longer viable. I mean since 2009 when Fletcher started and until his last draft in 2017 we've drafted I believe 59 players and how many of them have had any major impact on our team. we have had at best 7 players who have made any significant impact for us and that's out of 59 drafted so an 11.86% success rate and even then it's a stretch as some of those guys aren't even on our team anymore such as Haula Kuemper and Tuch even though he barely played in any games for us. Then if you exclude any player(s) drafted in 2016 or 2017 were still only at a 14.2% success rate at best. I posted this same thought in the Youtube comment of the video but quickly found out that those other Wild Fans hang out there as well.

 

 

 

[IllaZilla]

1 hour ago, bbgarnett said:

Just saw or 31in 31 posted by the NHL and was shocked when they were mentioning how good Chuck Fletcher and his team were at drafting and about how our Cupboard isn't empty by any stretch of the means. While yes the cupboard is isn't empty, how much of that stuff in the cupboard has passed its expiration date and is no longer viable. I mean since 2009 when Fletcher started and until his last draft in 2017 we've drafted I believe 59 players and how many of them have had any major impact on our team. we have had at best 7 players who have made any significant impact for us and that's out of 59 drafted so an 11.86% success rate and even then it's a stretch as some of those guys aren't even on our team anymore such as Haula Kuemper and Tuch even though he barely played in any games for us. Then if you exclude any player(s) drafted in 2016 or 2017 were still only at a 14.2% success rate at best. I posted this same thought in the Youtube comment of the video but quickly found out that those other Wild Fans hang out there as well.

 

 

 

 

I think it would be interesting to compare the Wild's drafting and development to the rest of the league, with a similar set of parameters. Wild.com posted an article this summer crowing how they had a 44% success rate with drafting players. But their parameters were that a player was drafted by the Wild and made it to the NHL. That's it. So Kris Foucault is considered a draft success because he was drafted by the Wild in 2009 and played one game in the NHL. Don't set the bar too high.  To me a draft success is a player who was drafted by the team and then played a significant amount of games for that team or in the NHL. But what is significant? 41 games (half a season)? 82 games (one season)? 164 games (two seasons)? And then does it depend on where a player was drafted? Should first rounders be held to a higher standard than seventh rounders? Or should that not matter? 

[bbgarnett]

1 hour ago, IllaZilla said:

 

I think it would be interesting to compare the Wild's drafting and development to the rest of the league, with a similar set of parameters. Wild.com posted an article this summer crowing how they had a 44% success rate with drafting players. But their parameters were that a player was drafted by the Wild and made it to the NHL. That's it. So Kris Foucault is considered a draft success because he was drafted by the Wild in 2009 and played one game in the NHL. Don't set the bar too high.  To me a draft success is a player who was drafted by the team and then played a significant amount of games for that team or in the NHL. But what is significant? 41 games (half a season)? 82 games (one season)? 164 games (two seasons)? And then does it depend on where a player was drafted? Should first rounders be held to a higher standard than seventh rounders? Or should that not matter? 

 

Wonder if they included Nick Leddy as a success as we did technically draft him. But yeah players like Kris Foucault and Tyler Cuma should not be considered a success. I'd even include players such as James Sheppard and Justin Falk as players who weren't a success regardless of how many games they played.

[Fargocase]

1 hour ago, bbgarnett said:

 

 I'd even include players such as James Sheppard and Justin Falk as players who weren't a success regardless of how many games they played.

 

What?!  I suppose now you're going to claim we shouldn't count Colton Gillies as a big NHL draft success!!! 

 

Usually, the number I see is 100 NHL games as the cut off point.  Even at league min pay, 100 games gives you a decent chunk of change.

 

 

[IllaZilla]

3 hours ago, bbgarnett said:

 

Wonder if they included Nick Leddy as a success as we did technically draft him. But yeah players like Kris Foucault and Tyler Cuma should not be considered a success. I'd even include players such as James Sheppard and Justin Falk as players who weren't a success regardless of how many games they played.

Yeah, they did. But I would have too. Just because he never got to play for the Wild, I still would have included Leddy as one of the Wild’s draft successes. But I would also have included Sheppard. He stuck around the NHL for six seasons and averaged about 50 games per season. Is that great for being a top 10 pick? Probably not. But we’re not looking at the value of the pick, just that a player was drafted by the Wild and played a significant amount of games in the NHL. And we would have to decide what “significant” means. 

[rottenrefs]

Yet Fletcher being such a success they fired him.

Dumb fans liked him, smart fans hardly tolerated him.

[bbgarnett]

5 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

Yeah, they did. But I would have too. Just because he never got to play for the Wild, I still would have included Leddy as one of the Wild’s draft successes. But I would also have included Sheppard. He stuck around the NHL for six seasons and averaged about 50 games per season. Is that great for being a top 10 pick? Probably not. But we’re not looking at the value of the pick, just that a player was drafted by the Wild and played a significant amount of games in the NHL. And we would have to decide what “significant” means. 

 

yeah, I guess but too Fletcher was a part of the group that traded Kim Johnsson for Cam Barker and then threw in Leddy to boot so while it was a success in terms of drafting him we quickly turned that into a failure with the trade.

[CreaseAndAssist]

It was Minnesota Hockey magazine or Let's Play Hockey that had the 44% figure, not Wild.com although I'm sure they were glad to reprint such propaganda.  If they Wild really have drafted great, then our team would have lots of great assets that other teams would want.  I think this summer proved; at least partially...that what the Wild have don't REALLY entice other teams all that much.  Yes, I think the offers were pretty bad intentionally but in years past...how many times have we apparently tried to trade Coyle / Brodin etc?  More than a few and every time...the deal never happens.  It kind of reminds me of this scene from Uncle Buck, sure he has items to trade but does anyone REALLY want them?  

 

 

But as you look at that list of prospects.  Player after player is often stated as not being a great skater.  Or lacking speed, quickness.  Have they not paid attention to the league?  Why are you hording players with skating issues?  Zack Phillips had reasonable hands, but his skating was AWFUL, like Brunette 2.0 bad...the kind of red flag that if you have any functioning brain cells you don't draft no matter how great their hands are.  You know the skating will make it next to impossible for them to make it.  But as IllaZilla stated a while back, the team felt it knew something no one else did...and made the poor selection anyways.  Bust.  

 

Luke Kunin, one significant knee injury already...he's damaged goods.  His trade value can't be that great.  Gets credit for his hustle and having a decent shot but just an ok skater for a player who is of average size.  Joel Eriksson Ek, I am hoping he has a breakout season and shows more scoring ability but if he amounts to a 3rd line center?!?!  Greenway looks decent, but is he really proven he should be in the NHL right now?  I don't think so.  But the free pass looks like its already being given to him.  

 

Kaprizov has already been told (albeit by Fletcher, not Fenton as far as we know) that he's going to get a free pass.  He won't be starting out in Iowa, IF he ever comes to North America or the Minnesota Wild in the first place.  Yet if you take Kaprizov off this list, the prospect pool looks pretty underwhelming with lots of questionable projects IMO.  

 

Khovanov, skilled...people mentioned his bout with Hepatitis A, but as the report stated.  That didn't help, but his skating was questionable BEFORE he got Hepatitis A.  The Giroux kid, kind of the same issue.  A smallish player who works hard, but has skating issues.  Why draft a small guy with skating issues?  I don't have a problem with them drafting a smaller player but he better be fast as hell otherwise I don't see how it works out in a league where you can't stick on the 4th line unless you're at least an average to above average skater.  The team has clearly overvalued playmaking and ignored skating.  

 

Pittsburgh, Nashville, Vegas...to a lesser degree Washington.  All clubs that were fast, especially in transition and had good skaters from top to bottom in their lineup.  

[IllaZilla]

5 hours ago, bbgarnett said:

 

yeah, I guess but too Fletcher was a part of the group that traded Kim Johnsson for Cam Barker and then threw in Leddy to boot so while it was a success in terms of drafting him we quickly turned that into a failure with the trade.

 

Trades are another matter. I wouldn’t include them with this discussion. If I have time this weekend I may try to pull something together looking at the Wild vs rest of the league, just to see if we’re being hypercritical of the team or if they really are poor at drafting and development. 

[IllaZilla]

10 hours ago, rottenrefs said:

Yet Fletcher being such a success they fired him.

Dumb fans liked him, smart fans hardly tolerated him.

 

Well, the team definitely improved under his leadership, record-wise. They went from middle of the pack under Risebrough to top ten in the league. So he was definitely doing something right there.

 

He was not afraid to make trades to try and improve the team, or sign free agents. Some of his trades worked (Pominville trade), and some didn't (Hanzal trade). Some of the free agents signings worked (Parise) and some didn't (Vanek).

 

I think Fletcher's downfall was the teams inability to perform in the Playoffs. Whether it was injuries or "the hot goaltender", there was always something that seemed to pop up during the Playoffs that derailed the Wild's post-season efforts. Whether these things were entirely his fault or not, hard to say. But he had already fired his hand-picked coach Mike Yeo, so the next person on the hot seat was himself, since he couldn't fire the team. And unfortunately, the team failed to show up once again in the Playoffs and it cost him his job.

[IllaZilla]

7 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

Pittsburgh, Nashville, Vegas...to a lesser degree Washington.  All clubs that were fast, especially in transition and had good skaters from top to bottom in their lineup.  

 

The day Fletcher was introduced, during his press conference he promised to change the Wild into a fast, aggressive skating team like the Penguins...