Davey J Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 On 7/10/2018 at 9:02 AM, IllaZilla said: And that’s just it. Like everyone says “You can’t fire the team, so you fire the coach.” As unhappy as we are with The Three Stooges, they’re not going anywhere. The only way Koivu moves to 3C is if EEK suddenly discovers a scoring touch and becomes the team lead scorer. And if Koivus FO% continues to plummet. But it’s probably going to take both those occurrences. Parise will always get top six time. Even if there are players out performing him. The Wild will use the excuse that they want to spread the scoring around to different lines. So they’ll move an effective player from line 1 or 2 to insert Parise to keep him happy for the dozen or so games he’s on the ice and not in the trainers room. And Suter is a law unto himself. Where else could a player dictate his ice time, line mates, and PP time? Why bother hiring Boudreau? Suter is just going to do what he wants anyway. Make Suter the player/coach. He seems to fit the Wild mold of being the smartest guy in the room... Maybe not to the degree we are witnessing here, but this definitely happens on every team. It is 2018 after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Davey J said: Maybe not to the degree we are witnessing here, but this definitely happens on every team. It is 2018 after all... No, it doesn't. I see other players being relegated, even on the best of teams. Kessel had his best season of his career and still wasn't happy about being moved off Malkin's line. Yet Mike Sullivan obviously made the move. So, I think this an issue that is somewhat unique to this team where a few players run the show. And for the point about team reputations and locker room environments, I am sure players are aware of that too and it can be just as toxic as a tyrannical coach can be. If you're a new player and know 3 players rule the roost and you better conform, you might think twice about signing here unless you are their best friend or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey J Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 1 hour ago, CreaseAndAssist said: I am with IllaZilla on this one. If Fontaine was the asset Rotten insists he was, why isn't he in the league anymore? He signed somewhere in Europe this summer; so I guess 31 NHL teams are all stupid and just holding him back right? But somehow, we're missing the point...riiight. Rotty...letting us all know we're wrong. Tell us more about these TPS Reports aka the Fleecing of Justin Fontaine... And this is all of us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Nah, I think its more like this, and we're the Bob's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey J Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 9 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said: Nah, I think its more like this, and we're the Bob's.... Or this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Ima leave this here: The Wild had just signed Jared Spurgeon to a $5M contract, leaving them with just over $10M in cap space. They still needed to sign Jason Zucker, Matt Dumba, a back-up goalkeeper, a 1C, and an entire 4th Line. Zucker was extended for $2M Dumba was extended for $2.5M Stalock (back-up GK) was signed for $650K Staal (1C) was signed for $3.5M Schroeder (4C) was signed for $650K Stewart (4RW) was signed for $1.15M Total = $10.45M Justin Fontaine made $1M the last year he was with the Wild (2016). He was going to be a UFA. His production probably warranted a hefty raise, likely $2M+. He was also 29 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, IllaZilla said: Ima leave this here: The Wild had just signed Jared Spurgeon to a $5M contract, leaving them with just over $10M in cap space. They still needed to sign Jason Zucker, Matt Dumba, a back-up goalkeeper, a 1C, and an entire 4th Line. Zucker was extended for $2M Dumba was extended for $2.5M Stalock (back-up GK) was signed for $650K Staal (1C) was signed for $3.5M Schroeder (4C) was signed for $650K Stewart (4RW) was signed for $1.15M Total = $10.45M Justin Fontaine made $1M the last year he was with the Wild (2016). He was going to be a UFA. His production probably warranted a hefty raise, likely $2M+. He was also 29 years old. But...but Fontaine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey J Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I do miss Fontaine's grit though... Man, that kid could battle for the puck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I'd rather have 2 Fontaine's than 1 Koivu. Considering his production was half of Koivu's that one year... Two Fontaine's is $2 million dollars with a guy who shows up to play every second he's on the ice versus Koivu earning $6.5 million while turning his back on his teammates and never putting his shoulder on anyone and never playing with urgency. Joke and mock me all you want; I'm still holding firm that when Fontaine was on Koivu's line and scoring more than him for that brief period he was immediately sent to the fourth line for no reason at all (except his name was being called more than the Clydesdale.) His effort was being called out and noticed while Koivu limped along as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 34 minutes ago, rottenrefs said: I'd rather have 2 Fontaine's than 1 Koivu. Considering his production was half of Koivu's that one year... Two Fontaine's is $2 million dollars with a guy who shows up to play every second he's on the ice versus Koivu earning $6.5 million while turning his back on his teammates and never putting his shoulder on anyone and never playing with urgency. Joke and mock me all you want; I'm still holding firm that when Fontaine was on Koivu's line and scoring more than him for that brief period he was immediately sent to the fourth line for no reason at all (except his name was being called more than the Clydesdale.) His effort was being called out and noticed while Koivu limped along as usual. Brandon Mileski noted it today on Beyond the Pod, that the Wild was placing Koivu's line under the listing as Line #1 even though it really wasn't the top line because the team feared upsetting him. I am not sure why they dance around that so much. But he's probably not going away, not for 2 more seasons at least. Will they relegate him to the 3rd line? It'd be nice but I'll believe it when I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 3 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said: Brandon Mileski noted it today on Beyond the Pod, that the Wild was placing Koivu's line under the listing as Line #1 even though it really wasn't the top line because the team feared upsetting him. I am not sure why they dance around that so much. But he's probably not going away, not for 2 more seasons at least. Will they relegate him to the 3rd line? It'd be nice but I'll believe it when I see it. That's just how screwed up this club is, as I've been quite vocal about for darn near a decade (during Todd Richards first year here in 2009.) Things were off the charts then with stupid line changes... Right about when certain lines would gel we'd see the scrambled eggs routine take place and it continued during all of Yeo's years here as well as Boudreau's - so far. It's killing the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey J Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Its becoming more and more evident that it is Leipold whom Koivu has incriminating photos of and not Fletcher... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 30 minutes ago, rottenrefs said: That's just how screwed up this club is, as I've been quite vocal about for darn near a decade (during Todd Richards first year here in 2009.) Things were off the charts then with stupid line changes... Right about when certain lines would gel we'd see the scrambled eggs routine take place and it continued during all of Yeo's years here as well as Boudreau's - so far. It's killing the team. We said the same when Koivu threw a hissy fit over not having Miettinen on his line. Or when he pouted after he got hurt and couldn't bring himself to attend the games. He was apparently too upset... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomdog Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Well I am just hoping that under a new GM this crap changes. If not maybe I'll sign up for the NHL package and find a new team to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetshot Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 14 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said: So what do you suggest? Just endlessly bag skate the team until they get the message...bench almost the whole team other than 6 players to send a message? If the message needs to be sent, you do what you gotta do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 6 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said: We said the same when Koivu threw a hissy fit over not having Miettinen on his line. Or when he pouted after he got hurt and couldn't bring himself to attend the games. He was apparently too upset... That's right. And the upper brass have done but feed that ugly animal, Koivu's ego, to the point of what it is today times three by including doing the same thing with Parise and Suter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Of all the big egos in sports the ones who need to check them at the door are your team leaders. This is what's wrong with what's in the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 11 hours ago, sweetshot said: If the message needs to be sent, you do what you gotta do. Hilarious, the same guy who asks the question we'd only have 5 players left then says its ok to bench the whole team. The cap doesn't allow you do that. The big money, long-contract players run the show...we've identified them many times in this thread and probably every thread on the boards. They are not going to get benched and they know it as long as Leipold owns this team. But please...stick with your delusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 5 hours ago, rottenrefs said: That's right. And the upper brass have done but feed that ugly animal, Koivu's ego, to the point of what it is today times three by including doing the same thing with Parise and Suter. Well let us know when they actually significantly reduce Suter's ice time, or Parise's power play minutes or Koivu's role. You can talk about changing it, but my guess...if it lasts more than even a full game I'd be surprised. They gave Koivu a no movement not because he demanded it, but because they feared insulting him by not giving him the same 'protection' as the other big (well-paid) egos on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey J Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I believe this crap happens on all teams. The differences are these: 1) We are fans of this team, so we see it all up close. It's the same as identifying holes in players' games - watch a game or two...maybe they go unnoticed. Watch a season or two (or three or twenty) and holes become much more apparent. Identifying personality flaws and ego maniacal behaviors is no different. 2) IF the Wild had made a couple runs into (at least) the 3rd round of the playoffs the past 6 years...we wouldn't care about any of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandron Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Some thoughts about the water and what is in the water. A water filtration and, of course, purification and rejuvenation are helping a lot. Those are the main goals for water to make it drinkable and healthy. Sometimes it takes awhile to make it clean. It depends on how dirty it is. Patience is the huge helper for awhile too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 On 7/12/2018 at 10:10 AM, CreaseAndAssist said: Well let us know when they actually significantly reduce Suter's ice time, or Parise's power play minutes or Koivu's role. You can talk about changing it, but my guess...if it lasts more than even a full game I'd be surprised. They gave Koivu a no movement not because he demanded it, but because they feared insulting him by not giving him the same 'protection' as the other big (well-paid) egos on the team. Typical ignorant yet arrogant response. The point being is we already know this team never does the right thing and while everyone including yourself speculates what needs to be done; are you saying only you can come up with brilliant ideas that the team will never use because that's never happened. Well, short of buying out junk players or sending some kid that never should of been up here back to Iowa. Like those things aren't glaring to even football or tennis coaches. At least some of the things I've recommended the team has actually done. Months or years later but they've done some of them (too little too late.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 57 minutes ago, rottenrefs said: Typical ignorant yet arrogant response. The point being is we already know this team never does the right thing and while everyone including yourself speculates what needs to be done; are you saying only you can come up with brilliant ideas that the team will never use because that's never happened. Well, short of buying out junk players or sending some kid that never should of been up here back to Iowa. Like those things aren't glaring to even football or tennis coaches. At least some of the things I've recommended the team has actually done. Months or years later but they've done some of them (too little too late.) Not at all. I am sure at some point the team has made moves we've all suggested but I think you and I both would admit they did not make those moves because we suggested it. It just happened on its own. I wanted the team to draft Nino Niederreiter in 2010 and we ended up with him anyways. I wanted the team to start spending money on its roster; and eventually they did. Does that validate me? Not really...but even if its delayed, they often will address the issue. Even if its years too late. But in the meantime it gives us plenty to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 On 7/11/2018 at 10:42 PM, sweetshot said: If the message needs to be sent, you do what you gotta do. Coaches that act like tyrants don't last long in the NHL. Look at Mike Keenan. Over his career, the time he spent as coach on various teams lasted less and less as his career progressed. Like it or not, players have far more clout nowadays than the coaches do. A coach that pisses off a star player that the team has invested a lot of money in will more than likely be shown the door before that star player is jettisoned as a "cancer"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetshot Posted July 15, 2018 Author Share Posted July 15, 2018 3 hours ago, IllaZilla said: Coaches that act like tyrants don't last long in the NHL. Look at Mike Keenan. Over his career, the time he spent as coach on various teams lasted less and less as his career progressed. Like it or not, players have far more clout nowadays than the coaches do. A coach that pisses off a star player that the team has invested a lot of money in will more than likely be shown the door before that star player is jettisoned as a "cancer"... I think you would agree, however, that allowing the inmates to run the asylum is not a good idea. Look where it's gotten the Wild. You don't have to be like Mike Keenan to have control of your team and the respect of your players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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