Neuvy's Whereabouts

[Howie58]

This was posted in the Courier-Post.  Maybe the absence of his equipment says the lower body injury is never-ending. 

 

https://www.courierpostonline.com/story/sports/nhl/flyers/2018/11/12/whats-plan-when-james-van-riemsdyk-returns-flyers/1978945002/

 

If he isn't skating, even on his own, what does that say?  

[OccamsRazor]

56 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

This was posted in the Courier-Post.  Maybe the absence of his equipment says the lower body injury is never-ending. 

 

https://www.courierpostonline.com/story/sports/nhl/flyers/2018/11/12/whats-plan-when-james-van-riemsdyk-returns-flyers/1978945002/

 

If he isn't skating, even on his own, what does that say?  

 

No disrespect to Howie but i am done worrying about Neuvy i won't even consider him part of this team till he has actually started and finished a game.

 

Which i can't see.

[ruxpin]

[OccamsRazor]

8 hours ago, Howie58 said:

If he isn't skating, even on his own, what does that say?  

 

 

He was last seen with in the Flyers medical staff's hands...

 

 

...more news at 11.

[brelic]

9 hours ago, Howie58 said:

This was posted in the Courier-Post.  Maybe the absence of his equipment says the lower body injury is never-ending. 

 

https://www.courierpostonline.com/story/sports/nhl/flyers/2018/11/12/whats-plan-when-james-van-riemsdyk-returns-flyers/1978945002/

 

If he isn't skating, even on his own, what does that say?  

 

What an awful website that is. 

 

I still don’t understand why Hextall appears so reluctant to part ways with Neuvirth. I get that he’s the most talented goalie we have. But he is never healthy. 

 

Wasn’t it the last goalie carousel that got Lavi fired?

 

Hmmm.

[Howie58]

41 minutes ago, brelic said:

Wasn’t it the last goalie carousel that got Lavi fired?

Gosh, whatever goalie problems we have, I'd say Herr Hakstol shares minimal responsibility.  Yes, he may have overplayed the hot hand, but he hasn't had too many hands to play.  That has been the GM's responsibility. Keeping Neuvy around has stunted the youngins. I'd hope the system recognizes that. 

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, Howie58 said:

but he hasn't had too many hands to play.

 

Amen can i get a witness!!!

[King Knut]

11 hours ago, Howie58 said:

This was posted in the Courier-Post.  Maybe the absence of his equipment says the lower body injury is never-ending. 

 

https://www.courierpostonline.com/story/sports/nhl/flyers/2018/11/12/whats-plan-when-james-van-riemsdyk-returns-flyers/1978945002/

 

If he isn't skating, even on his own, what does that say?  

 

That Hextall has finally come to the conclusion we all did a year and a half ago... the Neuvy can't be trusted to remain healthy.  It's a shame.  I feel bad for him.  But you can't even trade the guy at this point.  The best thing for him IMHO would be to take the full season off as LTIR and try to get himself right and find a new team next year to take a chance on him as a backup and claim he just needed a longer recovery to get fully healthy for good.  

 

 

[King Knut]

31 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Gosh, whatever goalie problems we have, I'd say Herr Hakstol shares minimal responsibility.  Yes, he may have overplayed the hot hand, but he hasn't had too many hands to play.  That has been the GM's responsibility. Keeping Neuvy around has stunted the youngins. I'd hope the system recognizes that. 

 

 

Agreed and what' more, it's not like Hextall sets the starting lineup.  Much and more is made over Hextall's handling of the goalies or not bringing in new or better one, but everyone who likes to complain about that doesn't ever acknowledge the circumstances at play and that NO " GOOD " goalies that made any sense for the flyers have been available.

 

Two years ago was the key.  They had Mason and Neuvy and frankly, Stolarz was looking VERY good.  Maybe not as your workload 60 game starter to take you to three cups, but certainly as a super strong backup and possible as an above average to decent starter.  We forget that.  It's easy to forget because it was a small sample size, but it's true.

 

Then the vegas draft comes along.  Both Neuvy and Mason's contracts are up, but Hextall is REQUIRED to expose a goalie with certainl requirements and the ONLY goalie he had under contract come June was Stolarz.  So he had a choice.  Expose the only goalie he had under contract (who looked very promising at the time) to the expansion draft or sign one of Mason or Neuvy OR the third and least likely possibility:  trade an asset to get a goalie simply to expose him in the draft. 

 

Hextall was never trading an asset for a guy he didn't ever want to play. 

Mason made big demands on a new contract and he and the staff never seemed to get along, meanwhile Neuvy made some demands, but far far reasonable ones, so Hextall extended him.  

 

People were agog at the deadline because Hextall extended PEB and Neuvy, both of whom no one wanted on this team.  The fact of the matter was the Hextall made these extensions very simply so he COULD expose these players in the draft.  He signed them becasue he didn't want them or at least didn't care if he lost them.  I think He wanted to keep PEB because everyone liked him and he knew he wasn't getting the best chances, but at the end of the day, losing him was better than losing Laughton or someone.

 

Fast forward to the end of the year when all of the "Good" goalies (Bishop, etc) got traded before Free agency began and we've already established that Hextall wasn't trading a propspect or a pick for a stop gap goalie during a rebuild.  Fact is, he didn't have the cap room to match the deals those guys got anyway.

 

So he ends up with Brian Elliott... which was the most stable, safest option available at the time (did any of us really want Bernier?  Didn't last season confirm that lack of desire?)  Keep in mind that throughout this whole process Hextall knows he has a kid in Juniors setting all kinds of records and looking like a blue chip.

 

Keeping Neuvy around may have stunted the progress of Lyon, but Stolarz's knee and Sandstrom's Mono have stunted their progress.  I don't think anyone thinks Hart should be in the NHL yet.  If Stolarz was healthy last year and able to play like he did two seasons ago, he might very well have stolen the starting job.  

 

Which is all to say, the goalie situation ain't good, but I don't exactly blame Hextall because the only way he could have fixed it would have been to trade a pick or a prospect for an aging goalie like Bishop to a long term deal and then we'd just be complaining about that and it would be killing our cap space and ability to sign someone like Bob or Rinne this off season (if it's deemed necessary).  And no, I'm not saying I want either one because of their lack of success in the Playoffs, but I'm just saying this deadline and then summer are the next best  chances he'll have to actually have to improve the goaltending situation.

 

I'm mad at Hextall of Lappy and Hakstol.  Not the goalies.  

 

 

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

I still don’t understand why Hextall appears so reluctant to part ways with Neuvirth. I get that he’s the most talented goalie we have. But he is never healthy. 

 

Wasn’t it the last goalie carousel that got Lavi fired?

 

Hmmm.

 

2 things:

 

-How does he part ways with a goalie under contract exactly?  He can waive him, but he's still paying him either way.  He may indeed waive him when he can't shuffle him with the IR and rehab stints anymore.  But what does that accomplish?  I don't think anyone really thinks of Neuvy as part of this team anymore, but by keeping him around, you're taking care of the player and believe me, that goes a LONG way with other players.  Both the ones on your team already and the ones you might want to sign someday.  When players say things like, "The Flyers are a class act" that's the kind of thing they mean.  The Flyers are VERY good to their players and their former players in a great many ways. It may frustrate us because it means we get guys like Lappy as a crappy PK coach, but it can be a big help in building a reputation in the league off the ice (if not on the ice).  I just don't see how keeping Neuvy around hurts anything.  He's not getting minutes, he's played less than a game for both teams... so what does it matter? 

 

-I never got the impression that it was the goalie carousel that got Lavi fired.  I don't remember that coming into play at all.  He got fired after 3 games.  That's not enough time to even have a "Carousel".  Lavvy did screw up with the goalies, 2 playoffs before he got fired and played Bob when it didn't matter... but Lavi isn't the one who brought in Bryz or traded Bob (although his actions made keeping Bob harder for CBA reasons, but Homer really should have sorted that crap out). 

 

 

 

[Howie58]

King Knut:

 

Your post is excellent. My one observation/comment regards this year.  Was it worthwhile really wondering if a third trainer would make a difference?  I agree that putting him on LTIR this has good optics.  On the other hand, if I understand the cap math, we could have bought him out for $750,000.  That might have bridged the "class act" model with the pragmatic approach. He could have tried to rehab or whatever on his own time, not ours.  His situation reminds me a little of Forsberg's end here, which had similar feel.  

 

All in, I forgot the chaos regarding our expansion, and I guess we will relive it with the upcoming Seattle gig.  

 

 

[vis]

I'll say it again, I'm not convinced Neuvirth's issues are physical - regardless of what the team posts.  I think his absences are far too frequent and the circumstances too strange for that to be the case.

 

Can't recall which game it was, but I was listening recently on the radio and Saunders and Coates were joking about Hackett's vertigo.  In short, they were insinuating that the diagnosis was a "cover" for him to retire because he simply couldn't play any longer.

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, vis said:

I'll say it again, I'm not convinced Neuvirth's issues are physical - regardless of what the team posts.  I think his absences are far too frequent and the circumstances too strange for that to be the case.

 

Can't recall which game it was, but I was listening recently on the radio and Saunders and Coates were joking about Hackett's vertigo.  In short, they were insinuating that the diagnosis was a "cover" for him to retire because he simply couldn't play any longer.

 

I'm guessing if that's the case with Neuvy that it might be masking a different medical diagnosis that isn't necessarily a hockey related injury rather than Neuvy just needing to retire.   M.S., Parkinson's, ALS, something like that maybe?  

 

My personal theory is that he's just never had it diagnosed properly or given it the proper amount of time to recover and rehab.  Giroux's core injury from a couple of years ago... if he never gets it fixed right, he's not this good ever again.  At the same time, he got it fixed and it still took over a year before he was actually close to himself again. 

 

Or even Ryan Howard and his achilles.  It healed, but it never got better enough for him to be competitive the way he was with any consistency.  

 

My guess is that there's some structural thing that has been weakened to such a degree that he's never going to be that good again.

 

Chase Utley's knees on the other hand... the dude took a BOAT LOAD OF TIME and was very cautious and took himself out right away when it didn't feel right.  Took his time.  Had a second career in another town.  

 

Hockey is WAY harder on a goalie's legs and knees.  Neuvy has something like that and goes back to playing early... he's gonna hurt it again every time.  

 

 

 

 

[brelic]

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

2 things:

 

-How does he part ways with a goalie under contract exactly?  He can waive him, but he's still paying him either way.  He may indeed waive him when he can't shuffle him with the IR and rehab stints anymore.  But what does that accomplish?  I don't think anyone really thinks of Neuvy as part of this team anymore, but by keeping him around, you're taking care of the player and believe me, that goes a LONG way with other players.  Both the ones on your team already and the ones you might want to sign someday.  When players say things like, "The Flyers are a class act" that's the kind of thing they mean.  The Flyers are VERY good to their players and their former players in a great many ways. It may frustrate us because it means we get guys like Lappy as a crappy PK coach, but it can be a big help in building a reputation in the league off the ice (if not on the ice).  I just don't see how keeping Neuvy around hurts anything.  He's not getting minutes, he's played less than a game for both teams... so what does it matter? 

 

There are a number of ways he can part with Neuvy. 

 

1. He can waive him. I’d be willing to bet at least one team will take a chance on a “free” goalie. Hextall would surely talk to Neuvy beforehand and tell him they’re going in another direction, and his hope is that someone claims him so he has a chance elsewhere. If Hextall waits until there are a few injuries around the league, it increases those chances. Which leads to the next point...

 

2. He could trade him at some point when there is a need around the league. The deal could have conditions based on playing time / health that might make a 5th round pick a 3rd rounder. Point is he can be creative and someone might take a chance. 

 

3. If there is a more significant procedure or surgery Neuvy can have that would help long term, it would be worth exploring. Shut him down for the season to recover. 

 

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

-I never got the impression that it was the goalie carousel that got Lavi fired.  I don't remember that coming into play at all.  He got fired after 3 games.  That's not enough time to even have a "Carousel".  Lavvy did screw up with the goalies, 2 playoffs before he got fired and played Bob when it didn't matter... but Lavi isn't the one who brought in Bryz or traded Bob (although his actions made keeping Bob harder for CBA reasons, but Homer really should have sorted that crap out). 

 

 

 

 

I agree it wasn’t the goalie carousel per se that got him fired. My bad, i thought it happened in the playoffs immediately preceding his firing 3 games into the following season. 

 

All I meant by it was that it was an indication that he was running out of options and maybe losing favour with the team by making knee jerk moves. But if it was a full season removed, there’s probably nothing to it. 

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, Howie58 said:

King Knut:

 

Your post is excellent. My one observation/comment regards this year.  Was it worthwhile really wondering if a third trainer would make a difference?  I agree that putting him on LTIR this has good optics.  On the other hand, if I understand the cap math, we could have bought him out for $750,000.  That might have bridged the "class act" model with the pragmatic approach. He could have tried to rehab or whatever on his own time, not ours.  His situation reminds me a little of Forsberg's end here, which had similar feel.  

 

All in, I forgot the chaos regarding our expansion, and I guess we will relive it with the upcoming Seattle gig.  

 

 

 

 

I don't think you can buy out an injured player, can you?

They missed the window over the summer and he was still recovering from surgery at that point.  

 

 

 

 

 

[vis]

33 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I'm guessing if that's the case with Neuvy that it might be masking a different medical diagnosis that isn't necessarily a hockey related injury rather than Neuvy just needing to retire.   M.S., Parkinson's, ALS, something like that maybe?  

I don't know if it's anything that serious.  Hell, the guy just may have no confidence in himself or his nerves may be shot.

 

33 minutes ago, King Knut said:

My personal theory is that he's just never had it diagnosed properly or given it the proper amount of time to recover and rehab. 

I don't know.  His injury history is pretty diverse.  Maybe that's the case this time, but there have been different things over time that make me think it's not a matter of a particular body part not healing correctly.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, Howie58 said:

On the other hand, if I understand the cap math, we could have bought him out for $750,000. 

 

That is what should have happened.

 

 

[King Knut]

7 minutes ago, brelic said:

All I meant by it was that it was an indication that he was running out of options and maybe losing favour with the team by making knee jerk moves. But if it was a full season removed, there’s probably nothing to it. 

 

Yeah, I think it was 3 years since the Goalie Carousel the year they lost to Boston and barely beat the Sabres.  Then came the year of Bryz when he played every game and they crushed the Penguins and then bizarrely just completely fell off the face of the earth against the Devils.   They didn't quality in the shortened season just before the firing and that may have had more to do with it, but really I think Homer was just grabbing at straws because he was beginning to realize how badly he'd screwed up the team and how horribly the Weber Stunt damaged his ability to make deals.  

 

Kinda like what's happening now with Chicago and LA, when you look at your team and you see that it's older than the hills and just can't compete anymore and you're going to be paying those old farts all your cap space for the next 5-6 years, I'll never understand why a GM would fire his coach in that instance.

 

LA is now paying TWO COACHES not to coach their over the hill team.  Stevens somehow got them to the playoffs last year despite the fact that a team loaded up for cup runs just passed by it's prime.  That's all there is to it.  But there goes Lombardi (and now Blake) doubling down on players edging out of or way past their prime instead of beginning the rebuild.  It's pathetic.  

 

Similarly with Chicago.  If that organization thinks it's 3 time cup winning coach is the problem and not the fact that Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook just can't keep up anymore, I just don't know what to tell them... the writing it on the wall.  Why on earth would you Throw money out the window by firing your coach, when it's apparent to everyone who follows the game that the game is just passing that roster by?

 

This is, by the way, a problem I would love to see the Flyers have.  Have the Flyers ever been bad just because a good team got old?  They were still making finals appearances in Clarke and Barber's twilight years.  Maybe the early 90's teams... but while Poulin, Kerr and Howe were certainly aging out of the sweet spot, they had a bunch of young guys who were quite good.  I guess just not a core really.