Potential moves for Flyers

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Maybe.

 

He is on the books for 6 more years at 6 mill per.

 

That certainly isn't the worst deal.

 

So what would the plan be to play him on the 3rd line LW spot and trade Lindblom?

 

From reports he can play the right side too.

 

So is someone else being package out?

 

As of right now the top 6 could look like this...

 

Giroux Coots Konecny

JVR Hayes Voracek

 

So I'm not sure you want a 3rd line LW at that price.

 

I'd have to hear the rest of the plan before I can say.

I was putting him on the right side, which he can play, but left is his natural side. 

 

Your point is why I'm not really interested. Maybe the thought is to move Giroux to the right? 

 

With Giroux on the left you have Claude, JVR, Lindblom now and Farabee and Radcliffe imminent.  I don't think I want to add $6m x 6 there. 

 

So, maybe the thought is 3RW.  I guess this is fine, but I'm not thrilled about $6m/yr for a 3rd liner playing on his off-wing.  

 

And none of this takes into account that we both called him soft in the shoutbox.  I don't think that label is unfair. 

 

There has to be better options, right? 

[brelic]

It could very well be a swap of #2 picks. 

 

Laine for Patrick.

 

Sign Hayes, sign Duchene. 

 

Trade for Subban.

 

Damn.

 

G/Duchene/Laine

JVR/Coots/Voracek

Lindblom/Hayes/TK

Raffl/Laughton/Hartman

 

Provo/Subban

Sanheim/Gudas

Ghost/Myers

Hagg

 

Hart

Talbot

 

SIGN. ME. UP.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

36 minutes ago, brelic said:

It could very well be a swap of #2 picks. 

 

Laine for Patrick.

 

Sign Hayes, sign Duchene. 

 

Trade for Subban.

 

Damn.

 

G/Duchene/Laine

JVR/Coots/Voracek

Lindblom/Hayes/TK

Raffl/Laughton/Hartman

 

Provo/Subban

Sanheim/Gudas

Ghost/Myers

Hagg

 

Hart

Talbot

 

SIGN. ME. UP.

 

 

 

HAHA.

 

Keep dreaming.

 

I would do Laine for Patrick.

 

However I don't think you will get Hayes to play 3rd line center.

 

Besides the fact that no way all that fits under the cap.

 

Especially with TK, Provorov and Sanheim needing new deals too.

[OccamsRazor]

• Jason Myrtetus

   

  @jasonmyrt

   

Source: Kevin Hayes and his agent Bob Murray were in town today and met with the Flyers brass. Discussions have ramped up considerably. Flyers would like to get a deal done well ahead of the draft and things are now getting serious. Stay tuned.

[brelic]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

HAHA.

 

Keep dreaming.

 

I would do Laine for Patrick.

 

However I don't think you will get Hayes to play 3rd line center.

 

Besides the fact that no way all that fits under the cap.

 

Especially with TK, Provorov and Sanheim needing new deals too.

 

Sure, so if not Hayes as 2C, I'm sure we can find a 3C to go with Coots/Duchene as 1/2C. And if not Duchene, then Hayes as 2C and someone else as 3C. 

 

From what I've heard and read, though, Laine is a lazy 100-foot player. Anyone have a different read? 

 

I mean, we know +/- is a flawed stat, but the dude was -24 on a very good Winnipeg team. Only 4 other regulars were minuses (-12, -7, -2, -1). He was by FAR the worst +/- on the team.

[ruxpin]

13 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Sure, so if not Hayes as 2C, I'm sure we can find a 3C to go with Coots/Duchene as 1/2C. And if not Duchene, then Hayes as 2C and someone else as 3C. 

 

From what I've heard and read, though, Laine is a lazy 100-foot player. Anyone have a different read? 

 

I mean, we know +/- is a flawed stat, but the dude was -24 on a very good Winnipeg team. Only 4 other regulars were minuses (-12, -7, -2, -1). He was by FAR the worst +/- on the team.

I honestly have zero interest in Duchene and only slightly more in Subban. 

 

I don't trust Duchene at all. I think he has loser stench. 

 

I like Subban, but I think he's jumped the shark and is heading down the back slope with an unfortunate contract. 

[Podein25]

9 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I honestly have zero interest in Duchene and only slightly more in Subban. 

 

I don't trust Duchene at all. I think he has loser stench. 

 

I like Subban, but I think he's jumped the shark and is heading down the back slope with an unfortunate contract. 

 

Precisely.

[elmatus]

27 minutes ago, brelic said:

From what I've heard and read, though, Laine is a lazy 100-foot player. Anyone have a different read? 

 

It's possible. Snipers like Laine are often lazy on the front end. He wouldn't be the first. The good ones remain extremely valuable despite that though.

 

And of course, Patrick hasn't exactly been lighting the world on fire either. He's been anemic on both sides of the puck. Laine scored more goals in his first two seasons than Patrick had points.

 

The one thing I would say about Laine though is that he seems like a complete douche. 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by elmatus

[ruxpin]

3 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

It's possible. Snipers like Laine are often lazy on the front end. He wouldn't be the first. The good ones remain extremely valuable despite that though.

 

And of course, Patrick hasn't exactly been lighting the world on fire either. He's been anemic on both sides of the puck. Laine scored more goals in his first two seasons than Patrick had points.

 

The one thing I would say about Laine though is that he seems like a complete douche. 

 

 

 

Well, he works in Manitoba, so it's kind of a given.

[Podein25]

 

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

 

Well, he works in Manitoba, so it's kind of a given.

 

Ahem. I'm standing right here you know.

[ruxpin]

Just now, Podein25 said:

 

 

Ahem. I'm standing right here you know.

 

That's what I was basing the statement on.  

[brelic]

17 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I honestly have zero interest in Duchene and only slightly more in Subban. 

 

I don't trust Duchene at all. I think he has loser stench. 

 

I like Subban, but I think he's jumped the shark and is heading down the back slope with an unfortunate contract. 

 

Sheesh, tough crowd lol!

 

In an ideal world, would Subban and Duchene be my top picks? Absolutely not.

 

But given what is realistic this offseason, if Fletch were to pull that off, there's no denying that the product on the ice would be MUCH better. Duchene would bring top end talent (which we lack) and Subban brings top end talent, snarl, and personality. Maybe too much for some, but you can't deny he's an Alpha. 

 

Add Laine for Patrick to that, and we're really cooking. 

[ruxpin]

10 minutes ago, brelic said:

Subban brings top end talent, snarl, and personality. Maybe too much for some, but you can't deny he's an Alpha. 

 

I agree.  But he's breaking down and I think this will only get worse.  I really don't want to commit to that.

 

On the other hand, in the very short term and if he stays healthy, he really could be a very good veteran voice and bring some snarl to a defense that could use it.   My objection to Subban isn't about him personally; it's just that I don't have any confidence we'd be getting what we've seen.  

 

10 minutes ago, brelic said:

But given what is realistic this offseason, if Fletch were to pull that off, there's no denying that the product on the ice would be MUCH better

 

This is where I actually disagree.  Specifically with Duchene, I mean.  The first part smells to me like "get that because it's the best of what's available on the used car lot."  I don't think it's a move we have to make, so I'd find other ways to fill the holes.  I guess the second part may be true enough, but I don't personally think there's any coincidence that the Avalanche got better almost the instant he was gone.  Now, maybe it wasn't about him.  Maybe his absence caused others to move into roles where they thrived.   That's certainly possible.  

 

I just really don't like him.  I actually prefer Hayes especially because of the PK role. I think I want that taken care of in the same stroke as getting the center.   But I really just come back to a real visceral reaction to the thought of Duchene. It's not an "if they sign him I burn my jersey and become a golf fan!" thing.  I can't think of an example at the moment, but there have been players that have inspired that thought.  I just don't think I want him.

Edited June 12, 2019 by ruxpin

[brelic]

20 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I agree.  But he's breaking down and I think this will only get worse.  I really don't want to commit to that.

 

On the other hand, in the very short term and if he stays healthy, he really could be a very good veteran voice and bring some snarl to a defense that could use it.   My objection to Subban isn't about him personally; it's just that I don't have any confidence we'd be getting what we've seen.  

 

It would only be for 3 more years. Over the past 6 seasons, he's played all 82 games three times, and 63+ in the other 3. 

 

The only other (potentially) realistic acquisition that fits the top pairing defenseman that is better than Subban, IMO, is Doughty. His price would be different than Subban because they're a rebuilding club, much like ours, and want to turn it around fast. 

 

Nashville has a playoff window, so they might be looking for more immediate help.

 

 

20 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

This is where I actually disagree.  Specifically with Duchene, I mean.  The first part smells to me like "get that because it's the best of what's available on the used car lot."  I don't think it's a move we have to make, so I'd find other ways to fill the holes.  I guess the second part may be true enough, but I don't personally think there's any coincidence that the Avalanche got better almost the instant he was gone.  Now, maybe it wasn't about him.  Maybe his absence caused others to move into roles where they thrived.   That's certainly possible.  

 

I just really don't like him.  I actually prefer Hayes especially because of the PK role. I think I want that taken care of in the same stroke as getting the center.   But I really just come back to a real visceral reaction to the thought of Duchene. It's not an "if they sign him I burn my jersey and become a golf fan!" thing.  I can't think of an example at the moment, but there have been players that have inspired that thought.  I just don't think I want him.

 

Sure, it's very possible that Duchene is more sizzle than steak. And, say, a 7-year contract at $9-10M per year seems ridiculous. 

 

In the Avs case, it was just a bad situation. He wanted out, and until it got resolved, that was hanging over the team. ROR did the same thing. You know, maybe it's the way Sakic does things or negotiates with players and agents that turned these two guys away from the organization. 

 

I understand the irrational dislike of Duchene. We all have players like that... well, I think we do. I do for sure!

 

In any case, if Fletch made these moves, it would signal three things to me:

 

1. He's serious about making the team better, and he can actually pull it off.

2. He also understands not strapping the team - Subban for 3 years is not a problem, and Duchene for 7 is long, but he's also young enough that he should have several really good seasons.

3. He found a way to do it without giving up key assets (of course it depends how any of his moves actually go down)

 

I want to watch a strong Flyers team next year, and I'll let those who get paid for it worry about asset and cap management, especially when we're talking 5-6-7 years down the road.

[elmatus]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

Duchene would bring top end talent (which we lack)

 

Giroux would like a word with you.

 

I have to agree with @ruxpin about Duchene. I would also add his paycheck to the list of issues. He's going to get paid like a 1C, but frankly we already have a better 1C. So now we're paying a guy 9M per year for six year or something to play as our 2C, and we're stuck with him as he inevitably decides he's not terribly interested for four of those six years. Granted, the easy solution might be just to leave him unprotected and let Seattle take him, but that's too many ifs for me. 

 

Unlike some others here, I actually think Hayes is probably the best option for our needs. I mean, better options might exist if we're dealing Ghost in a trade, but as far as UFAs go, I actually prefer Hayes over Duchene personally. He'll be a good 3M cheaper for maybe 10pts less, and he doesn't forget how to play hockey when he's on defense.

 

The only possible redeeming quality I would give Duchene is the potential for him to play as a winger. I know in international play, he's actually done quite well when he's got a great setup man or two and doesn't have many defensive responsibilities. He's got good speed and a good shot. If someone else can do the work, he can often finish the play. Duchene as a scoring winger with someone like Giroux interests me significantly more than Duchene as a centre.

 

Subban on the other hand, I would actually be fine with, though it would depend on what it takes to get him. I'm not convinced losing Ghost to get Subban is much of an improvement.

Edited June 12, 2019 by elmatus

[ruxpin]

4 minutes ago, brelic said:

I understand the irrational dislike of Duchene. We all have players like that... well, I think we do. I do for sure!

 

Apt description, probably.

 

The other thing I'm concerned about..well, two now that I'm re-reading your numbered list.

1) He's serious about making the team better.

I suppose I still should, but I don't think I question that he's serious and wants to make the team better.    Where my jury is still out is if he can be smart about it.    I'm hung up on that irrational dislike thing. 

2) This is the one I was going with before I decided to add the snark in #1.   So, I think we've talked about this before and don't think it holds as much merit with some here--and I think you, without putting words in your mouth--is I do not want Frost blocked.  I suppose Duchene could come in and really light up the first or second line and we realize Patrick ain't it or move him for winger/dman help and then Frost slots in there.  And I really guess the prudent thing is to worry about that bridge when we come to it.  But that's another reason Hayes--or someone else with this ability--is attractive to me:  the ability to slide to wing if someone proves ready to take the center slot.

3)  (another add on) the not giving up key assets thing.  This is at least true in the near term.  We'll see how 7 years at $9M works out later on with other contracts.

 

Hey, if we sign Duchene, I'm willing to see how it goes. I have a weird feeling that the whole conversation is moot because he wants to go elsewhere.

[Podein25]

3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

And I really guess the prudent thing is to worry about that bridge when we come to it.

 

When I get to the bridge I already know what I'm doing. And that's jumping.

[ruxpin]

17 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

When I get to the bridge I already know what I'm doing. And that's jumping.

Yeah. I'm just hoping I'm not in a car with Ted Kennedy (aside from the fact it would be really weird since he's dead and all. Too soon?).

 

But that's my feeling with Duchene and a contract like that in general. I have a feeling I already know what happens at the bridge. 

[Podein25]

3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

But that's my feeling with Duchene and a contract like that in general. I have a feeling I already know what happens at the bridge. 

 

Yeah. I say avoid the bridge altogether and find another route.

[ruxpin]

6 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Yeah. I say avoid the bridge altogether and find another route.

I want to check out the moon part of Mars. 

[Podein25]

5 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I want to check out the moon part of Mars. 

 

Me too! That's all I've been thinking about for the last week. 

[OccamsRazor]

36 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

When I get to the bridge I already know what I'm doing. And that's jumping.

 

Rick is going to be pissed you're jumping off his roof while he is trying to watch the game....

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Rick is going to be pissed you're jumping off his roof while he is trying to watch the game....

Lol!  I see what you did there. 

[Podein25]

7 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Lol!  I see what you did there. 

 

I wish I did.

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, Podein25 said:

 

I wish I did.

 

Riddle me this (and you should know this one given your love of goats):

 

What lives under a bridge that would cause it to be called a roof?