Skinner has signed!!! 8 years, $9 million pr year

[ruxpin]

29 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

No doubt!

 

The Wild have to be one of the most screwed up teams right now!

 

Well, you have enough company in that department that it may hamper honest assessment of the team (from management, I mean).  My problem with the Wild is that they haven't drafted particularly well and have traded picks without much to show for it.  That, and the management of the Vegas expansion draft was horrific.  I think that set you back much further than where you'd be.

 

So, you had Fletcher, whom I don't like.   I'm stuck with him now in Philly, so we'll see.   Fenton seems like a step down rather than an improvement.  Is that accurate?  If so, is it fair to think maybe the problem (like the Flyers) is higher up?

[Buffalo Rick]

31 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

No doubt!

 

The Wild have to be one of the most screwed up teams right now!

They are not bad but certainly need help. Parise against the world.  And Zucker

[ruxpin]

Just now, Hockey Junkie said:

They are not bad but certainly need help. Parise against the world.  And Zucker

 

Zucker strikes me as a player that needs a change.  I almost forget he's 27 years old already.   He look at him and every year you think "THIS is the year."   Because he seems to have the tools.   But it never happens.  This year was particularly bad (maybe just vs. expectation, but I don't think so).  

 

We talked above about 2nd line wingers for the Sabres.  My first priority would be a second line center, just to give Mittelstadt room to breathe and grow.   But that would be my only hesitation about going after Zucker in a trade if I'm Buffalo.  He plays both wings, so he could slide in on the left or right.   If the Sabres decide to move Reinhart back to center, then Zucker could potentially slide onto the right next to Eichel and Skinner.   I'm not sure how I feel about Reinhart at center.  I don't think that helps Mittelstadt.

 

I wouldn't mind Zucker on the Flyers at 3-RW.  The cap hit is heavy for the 3rd line, but he may benefit from playing against presumably lesser competition for at least a little while.  On Philly, he could always slide to the left if needed.

 

I like Zucker, but something is very wrong with him in Minnesota.

[Buffalo Rick]

3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Zucker strikes me as a player that needs a change.  I almost forget he's 27 years old already.   He look at him and every year you think "THIS is the year."   Because he seems to have the tools.   But it never happens.  This year was particularly bad (maybe just vs. expectation, but I don't think so).  

 

We talked above about 2nd line wingers for the Sabres.  My first priority would be a second line center, just to give Mittelstadt room to breathe and grow.   But that would be my only hesitation about going after Zucker in a trade if I'm Buffalo.  He plays both wings, so he could slide in on the left or right.   If the Sabres decide to move Reinhart back to center, then Zucker could potentially slide onto the right next to Eichel and Skinner.   I'm not sure how I feel about Reinhart at center.  I don't think that helps Mittelstadt.

 

I wouldn't mind Zucker on the Flyers at 3-RW.  The cap hit is heavy for the 3rd line, but he may benefit from playing against presumably lesser competition for at least a little while.  On Philly, he could always slide to the left if needed.

 

I like Zucker, but something is very wrong with him in Minnesota.

I did not suggest that Botterill is even interested in him.  I think Reinhart stays with Eichel and Skinner.  Middlestadt could play with Sheary or Okposo? Dont forget we have Montour on D also.  That kid can fly

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

I did not suggest that Botterill is even interested in him.  I think Reinhart stays with Eichel and Skinner.  Middlestadt could play with Sheary or Okposo? Dont forget we have Montour on D also.  That kid can fly

 

I never even implied you did.

 

I was simply expressing that he might actually be a good option for the Sabres (or the Flyers, for that matter) if the price was right.  I don't think either team should give up the farm for him but if a change of scenery were to help him (don't know until he actually moves, right?) he could be really helpful for not only the Sabres or Flyers, but for a bunch of other teams.

 

I would prefer Reinhart with Eichel and Skinner.   I agree with that.

I'm not concerned with who Middelstadt plays with.  I'm more concerned about his role and playing him too high up roster too soon.  I'm comparing him in that sense to Patrick on the Flyers, though I think the Flyers did worse with Patrick than the Sabres have with Middelstadt.  I think Middelstadt will be fine, but I think his progress could be sped up if Buffalo came up with another temporary 2C option--I don't think Reinhart helps in that regard and then only creates a hole at 1 RW.

 

I like Montour.   I loved that move when Buffalo traded for him.   It was a really underrated, smart move.  But I want to shore up that defense. It's not there yet, and I'm not certain the eventual answer is in your system.  I honestly don't know enough about the defensemen in your system, but you do have a lot of older prospects.  And the past couple of years you've drafted Scandinavian-heavy (nothing wrong with that, but it means few are currently signed).  So, maybe you find that via trade over the summer.    If it's me, I'd like to see Dahlin and Risto, the Rasmuses, split up to "spread it through the lineup."   Also, Risto scares me a little on the defensive side, so I'd like to move him away from top competition while still giving him significant minutes plus PP time.   I suppose Montour could move up next to Dahlin, but that leaves a hole next to Risto.   This may be the way to go, because the left defensman might be eaiser (and cheaper) via trade.  

 

It seems to me that the Sabres really are only two-three players away from being a very good team.  A top 4 dman, a top six winger, and a 2C or 3C center.   After that, it's just tweaking.

[Buffalo Rick]

13 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I never even implied you did.

 

I was simply expressing that he might actually be a good option for the Sabres (or the Flyers, for that matter) if the price was right.  I don't think either team should give up the farm for him but if a change of scenery were to help him (don't know until he actually moves, right?) he could be really helpful for not only the Sabres or Flyers, but for a bunch of other teams.

 

I would prefer Reinhart with Eichel and Skinner.   I agree with that.

I'm not concerned with who Middelstadt plays with.  I'm more concerned about his role and playing him too high up roster too soon.  I'm comparing him in that sense to Patrick on the Flyers, though I think the Flyers did worse with Patrick than the Sabres have with Middelstadt.  I think Middelstadt will be fine, but I think his progress could be sped up if Buffalo came up with another temporary 2C option--I don't think Reinhart helps in that regard and then only creates a hole at 1 RW.

 

I like Montour.   I loved that move when Buffalo traded for him.   It was a really underrated, smart move.  But I want to shore up that defense. It's not there yet, and I'm not certain the eventual answer is in your system.  I honestly don't know enough about the defensemen in your system, but you do have a lot of older prospects.  And the past couple of years you've drafted Scandinavian-heavy (nothing wrong with that, but it means few are currently signed).  So, maybe you find that via trade over the summer.    If it's me, I'd like to see Dahlin and Risto, the Rasmuses, split up to "spread it through the lineup."   Also, Risto scares me a little on the defensive side, so I'd like to move him away from top competition while still giving him significant minutes plus PP time.   I suppose Montour could move up next to Dahlin, but that leaves a hole next to Risto.   This may be the way to go, because the left defensman might be eaiser (and cheaper) via trade.  

 

It seems to me that the Sabres really are only two-three players away from being a very good team.  A top 4 dman, a top six winger, and a 2C or 3C center.   After that, it's just tweaking.

Ristolainen to me has better tools than any defenseman we have had in ages. He has the physical power to drill forwards and he is great with the puck and he can score. He has all the tools. And IMO, more than Dahlin.  Back to Zucker, actually he would not be the worst stab for us to take.  But at what cost?  I really do not know what Botterill has up his sleeve.  I know Housley was a mistake from day one. He killed us. We had chemistry and he killed it. And he ran Berglund out of here. I do not care how people paint it. 

[ruxpin]

23 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Zucker, actually he would not be the worst stab for us to take.  But at what cost?

 

Yeah, that's the dealbreaker for me, too.

[ruxpin]

23 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

I know Housley was a mistake from day one. He killed us. We had chemistry and he killed it. And he ran Berglund out of here. I do not care how people paint it. 

 

I don't think he helped (though it's possible that's not even fair).  But I think Berglund's issues ran a little deaper.  Maybe another coach reaches him somehow and gets him over whatever was going on with him.

 

But yeah, I don't know (in retrospect) whether Housley was the right choice.

[IllaZilla]

1 hour ago, Hockey Junkie said:

They are not bad but certainly need help. Parise against the world.  And Zucker

 

That's the problem. They act like Parise's on the same level as Ovechkin. And Koivu is the equivalent John Tavares. And Eric Staal is still 23 years old.

 

They aren't building a team around good, young talent. They've installed Parise, Koivu, Suter, and to a lesser extent Staal as the core of the team and are adding younger players here and there to support those four...

[IllaZilla]

2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

So, you had Fletcher, whom I don't like.   I'm stuck with him now in Philly, so we'll see.   Fenton seems like a step down rather than an improvement.  Is that accurate?  If so, is it fair to think maybe the problem (like the Flyers) is higher up?

 

The thing with Fletcher is that he's not afraid to make a move to improve the team. He did make some good moves that people in Minnesota forget about:

 

Benoit Pouliot for Guillaume Latendresse

Cal Clutterbuck for Nino Niedereitter

Johan Larsson, Matt Hackett and a first round draft pick for Jason Pominville (with a year left on his contract)

3rd round pick for Devan Dubnyk

4th round pick for Ilya Bryzgalov

 

He's also had some less than stellar moves (the Brent Burns trade, the Martin Hanzal trade). But what GM doesn't?

 

But Fenton seems to just do stuff to do stuff. The Niedereitter-for-Rask trade was a total seat-of-the-pants thing. Fenton never even looked at Rask's stats or if checked into if the Canes were going to buy him out this summer. Just one day at a staff meeting he made the decision to trade Niedereitter for Rask. Straight up. Same with the Fiala trade. There was no need to trade Granlund when he did. Granlund had a year left on his contract and was the top scorer on the team. And to just get Kevin Fiala for him? There should have been at least one draft pick from Nashville thrown in there. And then to listen to Fenton, Fiala is the second coming of Connor McDavid. A "player with game breaking talent" to quote Fenton. After a week or so he walked that statement back, claiming that he meant Fiala had the potential to be really good.

 

The problem with the Wild is the owner. He's another Al Davis, Jerry Jones, George Steinbrenner, etc. Has to have his fingers in the pie. There were rumors that when Mike Yeo wanted to curtail Ryan Suter's 30+ minutes a game in order to keep him fresh for the Playoffs, Suter called Leipold and whined about it and Leipold told Yeo to leave Suter alone. There are also rumors that Suter picks his defensive partner, and if he doesn't get the player he wants, he calls Leipold to straighten out the coach. I could go on, but there's a lot of instances where Parise, Suter and Koivu get what they want or they just call Leipold and then get what they want...

Edited June 9, 2019 by IllaZilla

[Buffalo Rick]

Just a reminder, this is Sabres forum, not Wild.  The Sabres are building around youth.  Eichel, Dahlin, Ristolainen, Reinhart and even Skinner.  Signing Skinner was a must do likely for the fan base.  I am on the fence about it myself but I do know Skinner is a very good player.  At least in the offensive zone.  He might need to be reminded about back checking a bit

 

Oh, and lets not forget Montour.  I think this blue line is going to be better than more believe

Edited June 14, 2019 by Hockey Junkie

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

Moving this thread back on topic...………..

Jeff Skinner.
Tell you what... good deal and good signing for Buffalo.

I think everyone knew that whomever signed Skinner was going to have to pay some big bucks, so no one should be surprised at the $9M cap hit.
That said, the guy IS a legit scorer, seemed to work very, very well with Jack Eichel, and probably one of the more important details that many times fans overlook....he actually likes playing where he is with the Sabres.

Make no mistake...the Sabres still need a lot more in terms of scoring depth, better defensive play and more consistent goaltending, but at the very least, with Eichel and Skinner, and whomever they put in as a third member of their line, they at least have a very dangerous go-to line and while I am not a fan of teams just having "one line", if this past season has proven, it is teams CAN make headway with just one line (if they really are good enough) and the rest of the team makes some semblance of competitive play each and every night...… looking at teams like Dallas, Colorado, and Boston.

 

But look, Jeff Skinner, still just 27 signed for 8 years...it is quite possible, as long as he maintains good health (his biggest nemesis actually), that he will be a productive player throughout the life of his contract.
He HAS shown over the last two seasons that his concussion issues are now a thing of the past and if he doesn't get his lights dimmed anymore in that fashion, then the Sabres truly have a top flight winger whom Jack Eichel can call "partner" for the next several years.

I like the signing for the Sabres, I think it is a step in the right direction, bottom line...now....about the rest of the team's needs.....

[CreaseAndAssist]

On 6/8/2019 at 9:04 AM, IllaZilla said:

Those NMC/NTC's are a bitch...

 

Yea, its a no take-backsie's kind of a deal.  And most of the time these are the kind of deals you wish you could take back.  

[CreaseAndAssist]

On 6/14/2019 at 1:11 PM, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Moving this thread back on topic...………..

Jeff Skinner.
Tell you what... good deal and good signing for Buffalo.

I think everyone knew that whomever signed Skinner was going to have to pay some big bucks, so no one should be surprised at the $9M cap hit.
That said, the guy IS a legit scorer, seemed to work very, very well with Jack Eichel, and probably one of the more important details that many times fans overlook....he actually likes playing where he is with the Sabres.

Make no mistake...the Sabres still need a lot more in terms of scoring depth, better defensive play and more consistent goaltending, but at the very least, with Eichel and Skinner, and whomever they put in as a third member of their line, they at least have a very dangerous go-to line and while I am not a fan of teams just having "one line", if this past season has proven, it is teams CAN make headway with just one line (if they really are good enough) and the rest of the team makes some semblance of competitive play each and every night...… looking at teams like Dallas, Colorado, and Boston.

 

But look, Jeff Skinner, still just 27 signed for 8 years...it is quite possible, as long as he maintains good health (his biggest nemesis actually), that he will be a productive player throughout the life of his contract.
He HAS shown over the last two seasons that his concussion issues are now a thing of the past and if he doesn't get his lights dimmed anymore in that fashion, then the Sabres truly have a top flight winger whom Jack Eichel can call "partner" for the next several years.

I like the signing for the Sabres, I think it is a step in the right direction, bottom line...now....about the rest of the team's needs.....

 

This is a good deal?  For who?  Its a horrific deal, not just for the Buffalo Sabres, but the rest of the league because any comparable player is going to want that much $$$ and maybe a NTC/NMC to boot.  Buffalo will regret this deal, and they took a giant crap on the rest of the league in the process in raising the asking price of just about any free agent out there.  Stupid on every level.  

[JR Ewing]

The 10 most similar contracts (among forwards) to Jeff Skinner, considering cap hit%, contract length and age of signing, with links to each player's Hockey Reference page.

 

Patrice Bergeron

Tyler Seguin

Ryan Getzlaf

Corey Perry

Steven Stamkos

Jakub Voracek

Nikita Kucherov

Jamie Benn

Phil Kessel

Logan Couture

 

This is a who's who of award winners and league leaders and also Jacke Voracek. Do yourselves a favour: see who the most similar players are to Skinner, and then compare that to the most similar players to the guys in the above list. It's a group of guys who are almost entirely similar to Hall of Fame players and (again) also Jake Voracek.

 

I don't think it's an awful deal, but Buffalo paid every single penny and then some to sign him.  Sabres management didn't pass what I thought was a key test: making sure not to partially pay Jack Eichel's wingers based on how damned good Jack Eichel is.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

2 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

The 10 most similar contracts (among forwards) to Jeff Skinner, considering cap hit%, contract length and age of signing, with links to each player's Hockey Reference page.

 

Patrice Bergeron

Tyler Seguin

Ryan Getzlaf

Corey Perry

Steven Stamkos

Jakub Voracek

Nikita Kucherov

Jamie Benn

Phil Kessel

Logan Couture

 

This is a who's who of award winners and league leaders and also Jacke Voracek. Do yourselves a favour: see who the most similar players are to Skinner, and then compare that to the most similar players to the guys in the above list. It's a group of guys who are almost entirely similar to Hall of Fame players and (again) also Jake Voracek.

 

I don't think it's an awful deal, but Buffalo paid every single penny and then some to sign him.  Sabres management didn't pass what I thought was a key test: making sure not to partially pay Jack Eichel's wingers based on how damned good Jack Eichel is.

 

I think Buffalo just did what they needed to do at this stage of their competitive cycle:
Sign a young enough guy with a legit skillset to help push this franchise forward as other players develop into full fledged NHL contenders.
That seems to be the plan anyways.

Again, I think wherever Skinner would have gone, he was going to get paid and get paid big....so if you are Buffalo, why not sign him...keep him there with Jack Eichel whom he seemed to work with real well.

Ok, so perhaps Skinner benefitted from Eichel as a linemate, but still, Skinner himself is a bonafide offensive threat. Put up decent numbers with woeful offensive Carolina teams in the past, his possession metrics seem to be pretty good throughout his career, and while he has yet to gain the notoriety of some of the players on your comparable list, I think he can be just as good....maybe he will be noticed more playing in Buffalo as opposed to Carolina, playing on an up n coming team like the Sabres.

Buffalo still needs lots of other things of course, but if they make good signings elsewhere and, more importantly, the guys they have develop correctly, I think this deal will still look good.

Not very many players at all usually live up to whatever the big contract they end up getting is....I know you know this.
But many times teams are willing to take the chance on a guy with a reasonable shot at becoming a regular contributor and a guy you can continue to build around for the majority of the contract given....as I think this is the case with Skinner.

The team has the cap space and will also have some other contracts coming off the books as soon as next year

[CreaseAndAssist]

2 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

I think Buffalo just did what they needed to do at this stage of their competitive cycle:
Sign a young enough guy with a legit skillset to help push this franchise forward as other players develop into full fledged NHL contenders.
That seems to be the plan anyways.

Again, I think wherever Skinner would have gone, he was going to get paid and get paid big....so if you are Buffalo, why not sign him...keep him there with Jack Eichel whom he seemed to work with real well.

Ok, so perhaps Skinner benefitted from Eichel as a linemate, but still, Skinner himself is a bonafide offensive threat. Put up decent numbers with woeful offensive Carolina teams in the past, his possession metrics seem to be pretty good throughout his career, and while he has yet to gain the notoriety of some of the players on your comparable list, I think he can be just as good....maybe he will be noticed more playing in Buffalo as opposed to Carolina, playing on an up n coming team like the Sabres.

Buffalo still needs lots of other things of course, but if they make good signings elsewhere and, more importantly, the guys they have develop correctly, I think this deal will still look good.

Not very many players at all usually live up to whatever the big contract they end up getting is....I know you know this.
But many times teams are willing to take the chance on a guy with a reasonable shot at becoming a regular contributor and a guy you can continue to build around for the majority of the contract given....as I think this is the case with Skinner.

The team has the cap space and will also have some other contracts coming off the books as soon as next year

 

(yawn)  There is no guarantee Skinner will live up to this deal, in fact...stats would indicate he won't over the course of the deal.  They still have players to pay.   You can't afford to give every player almost $10 million just to stick around.  Will ownership finally back off and let this team grow organically instead of thinking its going to happen by changing the guy behind the bench.