Pierre-Luc Dubois has asked for a trade , do we want him?

[Zzeke]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I agree but however say they pick a few offensive guys and a one way guy or two it could be very well they need just some depth and a physical presence and then Hagg may be more attractive to them.

 

I am sure whatever Seattle will have a strategy and for most team will know what they will have to select from way before hand.

 

True. Good point.

 

It's impossible to project the 31 team's Lists, and Seattle's strategy, at this point in time here in January. As we get close to July, this will be a hot subject with a lot of speculation - - 

 

- - although we Flyers fans will be occupied with the SC playoffs right up to July 15!   

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Any deal for Dubois begins with Frost and probably Zamula or Sanheim. Any talk of Ghost or Voracek or JVR is out the window. If Ghost is hurt again (just speculating here,  but I'm wondering if it's a degenerative knee condition), there's no value there.  JVR and Voracek simply have too much money on their respective deals. 

 

Anyways,  I think a deal ends up something like this:

 

To Columbus: Frost, Zamula, Laughton, Philadelphia 1st

 

To Philadelphia: Dubois, Jenner, Columbus 3rd

 

[Zzeke]

20 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Any deal for Dubois begins with Frost and probably Zamula or Sanheim. Any talk of Ghost or Voracek or JVR is out the window. If Ghost is hurt again (just speculating here,  but I'm wondering if it's a degenerative knee condition), there's no value there.  JVR and Voracek simply have too much money on their respective deals. 

 

Anyways,  I think a deal ends up something like this:

 

To Columbus: Frost, Zamula, Laughton, Philadelphia 1st

 

To Philadelphia: Dubois, Jenner, Columbus 3rd

 

 

Good thinking BCF16. Some of your elements seem good.

 

Couple of thoughts:

 

1) Columbus just added 2 centers because of need there: Domi and the 37year old Koivu. If they are forced to trade Center PLD, they most likely would not also include their #2 Center Jenner even though they are getting Center Frost back.

 

2) I agree with you that the plums for Columbus are Frost and Zamula. If I were Fletcher, I'd try not to include Zamula. He is a big part of the Flyers future 'top-NHL' 6-man defense: Provorov, Gustafsson (re-signed), Sanheim, Myers, Zamula, York.

 

3) However, getting a proven quality defenceman may be key for GM Kekalainen. The Flyers don't have that to give up IMO. If Kekalainen was willing to take Frost and one of Ghost/Hagg/Friedman, that would be good for our Flyers IMO.

 

It's harder, and more important to NHL GMs, to build a quality 6-man defence. For our Flyers, Zamula is 'next up' in the high value prospect stream.

 

It seems Kekalainen wants a proven defenceman and a scoring winger:

 

 "When the Columbus Blue Jackets exited the 2020 postseason, the roster had an abundance of NHL-caliber defensemen but lacked proven centers. By the time the 2020-21 regular season begins, the team will have a decidedly different look. With the trades of long-time Blue Jacket Ryan Murray and his occasional D partner Markus Nutivaara, the blue line got thinner. Signing centers Max Domi and Mikko Koivu substantially improved the roster down the middle. The Blue Jackets could use a scoring winger…but who? "

 

4) And, how would our Flyers accomodate PLD? Would he be happy at Wing? Moving Centers Courturier, Hayes, or Patrick (keep him away from the wall as much as practical) to wing seems a big NO. PLD has played wing, but I remember reading that he wants to be a top center. An issue?

 

Now, I'm not sure what package from our Flyers would work for both teams, although landing the 22 year old PLD to play wing would be awesome. (Yes, if Patrick's health does not hold-up, PLD could slide to Center.)

 

[elmatus]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

NAK

 

I can't imagine NAK being protected over Jake. I like NAK and all, but he has one season under his belt and a whopping 15 pts to show for it. Jake may not be the second coming of Clarke, but he's still a 60 pt per year guy. NAK is more likely to play a supporting bottom six role for whatever amount of years he plays in the league.

 

Projections are fine to an extent, but Fletch isn't going to project NAK morphs to becomes a 60pt per year scorer on the basis of a single 15pt NHL season. Again, I do like NAK, but that's one hell of an oversell at this point. 

 

On that topic, if Jake is exposed to Seattle, he will almost certainly be their pick. They may not like what they get at times, but he'd be a pretty obvious choice from our team. 

 

Let's not forget:

2020 he was our third highest scorer (TK, Couts)

2019 he was our third highest scorer (Giroux, Couts)

2018 he was our second highest scorer (Giroux)

2017 he was our top scorer

2016 he was fourth (Giroux, Simmonds, Schenn)

2015 he was our top scorer

2014 he was second (Giroux)

 

If he's available, he'll almost definitely be their pick.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

18 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

I can't imagine NAK being protected over Jake. I like NAK and all, but he has one season under his belt and a whopping 15 pts to show for it. Jake may not be the second coming of Clarke, but he's still a 60 pt per year guy. NAK is more likely to play a supporting bottom six role for whatever amount of years he plays in the league.

 

Projections are fine to an extent, but Fletch isn't going to project NAK morphs to becomes a 60pt per year scorer on the basis of a single 15pt NHL season. Again, I do like NAK, but that's one hell of an oversell at this point. 

 

On that topic, if Jake is exposed to Seattle, he will almost certainly be their pick. They may not like what they get at times, but he'd be a pretty obvious choice from our team. 

 

Let's not forget:

2020 he was our third highest scorer (TK, Couts)

2019 he was our third highest scorer (Giroux, Couts)

2018 he was our second highest scorer (Giroux)

2017 he was our top scorer

2016 he was fourth (Giroux, Simmonds, Schenn)

2015 he was our top scorer

2014 he was second (Giroux)

 

If he's available, he'll almost definitely be their pick.

 

I can't see the Kraken taking Voracek if he's available. For these start up franchises, especially once the damage from the pandemic is taken into consideration and just how much the cap will do, that will just cause all sorts of cap issues for them.  

 

With that being said, I'm feeling very certain that Voracek will be protected in that he's good friends with the captain, is well liked by his teammates, and is not a locker room distraction or problem. Those three factors are incredibly important. Losing a player like Voracek could have a devastating effect on the locker room and I think Fletcher knows that. 

[Zzeke]

6 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

I can't imagine NAK being protected over Jake. I like NAK and all, but he has one season under his belt and a whopping 15 pts to show for it. Jake may not be the second coming of Clarke, but he's still a 60 pt per year guy. NAK is more likely to play a supporting bottom six role for whatever amount of years he plays in the league.

 

Projections are fine to an extent, but Fletch isn't going to project NAK morphs to becomes a 60pt per year scorer on the basis of a single 15pt NHL season. Again, I do like NAK, but that's one hell of an oversell at this point. 

 

On that topic, if Jake is exposed to Seattle, he will almost certainly be their pick. They may not like what they get at times, but he'd be a pretty obvious choice from our team. 

 

Let's not forget:

2020 he was our third highest scorer (TK, Couts)

2019 he was our third highest scorer (Giroux, Couts)

2018 he was our second highest scorer (Giroux)

2017 he was our top scorer

2016 he was fourth (Giroux, Simmonds, Schenn)

2015 he was our top scorer

2014 he was second (Giroux)

 

If he's available, he'll almost definitely be their pick.

 

We don't look back. We look forward.

 

The past vs the future.

 

It's a risk for Fletcher that is a win-win. There is a high probability that Seattle will not take Voracek at age 32, Cap Hit 8.25M with 3 years left on his contract. That is a win for the near term.

 

Cap Management is a major factor in shaping/managing an NHL team. Teams must balance veterans with youth in order to win because too many high Cap Hit players can inhibit signing/keeping high quality 2nd or 3rd contract players. Example: Hart/Sanheim/Patrick are RFAs after this season. They all are due 'big raises' and their agents will push hard with League comparisons. Fletcher needs Cap Space to sign them.

 

In the unlikely event that Seattle selects Voracek, Fletcher gets a much needed 8.25 M Cap Space. A win. And, it opens a RW spot for younger quality prospects Sandin, Allison, NAK.

 

The RW depth becomes:

Konecny

Farabee

NAK

Sandin

Allison

 

Excellent.

 

If Voracek is protected and NAK exposed, there is some chance that 24 year old NAK could be selected. If so, the organizational depth takes a hit by losing a young NHL proven RW who is highly thought of and far from his peak. And has a low Cap Hit.

 

Ooooops. The Flyers game (scrimmage) on TV is almost starting - - gotta go.

 

 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

I can't imagine NAK being protected over Jake. I like NAK and all, but he has one season under his belt and a whopping 15 pts to show for it. Jake may not be the second coming of Clarke, but he's still a 60 pt per year guy.

 

It isn't about production they might not take NAK but he gets pick over the selections that have been offered so i was cool losing Bellemare but not NAK who i think is just scratching the surface of what he can do.

 

And if they take Jake it's a salary dump i'm good with it.

[OccamsRazor]

52 minutes ago, Zzeke said:

 

We don't look back. We look forward.

 

The past vs the future.

 

It's a risk for Fletcher that is a win-win. There is a high probability that Seattle will not take Voracek at age 32, Cap Hit 8.25M with 3 years left on his contract. That is a win for the near term.

 

Cap Management is a major factor in shaping/managing an NHL team. Teams must balance veterans with youth in order to win because too many high Cap Hit players can inhibit signing/keeping high quality 2nd or 3rd contract players. Example: Hart/Sanheim/Patrick are RFAs after this season. They all are due 'big raises' and their agents will push hard with League comparisons. Fletcher needs Cap Space to sign them.

 

In the unlikely event that Seattle selects Voracek, Fletcher gets a much needed 8.25 M Cap Space. A win. And, it opens a RW spot for younger quality prospects Sandin, Allison, NAK.

 

The RW depth becomes:

Konecny

Farabee

NAK

Sandin

Allison

 

Excellent.

 

If Voracek is protected and NAK exposed, there is some chance that 24 year old NAK could be selected. If so, the organizational depth takes a hit by losing a young NHL proven RW who is highly thought of and far from his peak. And has a low Cap Hit.

 

Ooooops. The Flyers game (scrimmage) on TV is almost starting - - gotta go.

 

 

 

 

 

Damn i wish i would have kept reading before posting and i would have said yeah what you just said.

 

Good post.

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, elmatus said:

Projections are fine to an extent, but Fletch isn't going to project NAK morphs to becomes a 60pt per year scorer on the basis of a single 15pt NHL season. Again, I do like NAK, but that's one hell of an oversell at this point. 

 

 

I rest my case your honor.

 

 

[elmatus]

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

but not NAK who i think is just scratching the surface of what he can do

 

I mean, It's possible sure. He should certainly improve from a 15pt season. What's his ceiling? 30pts? 40pts? 40pts in the NHL is nothing to laugh at. Does he hit 50 as his best season? That would be a great year for him.

 

Prospects are prospects until proven otherwise. There's nothing to suggest NAK is a 60pt guy (which Voracek is). He seems far more likely to be a bottom six guy who might be able to punch above his weight on occasion if needed.

 

3 hours ago, Zzeke said:

We don't look back. We look forward.

 

Look, I get it. I want NAK to be a great player too. But I'm going to need more than 15pts in a season before I jump on the NAK is a 60pt/year player bandwagon. 

 

If I'm looking to hire someone to build a house, I'm far more likely to look to the guy who has built a bunch of nice houses. If I take a flier on a kid out of trade school who did alright with a shed, that's definitely some amount of risk I'm taking. He might turn out to be alright at it, but I have no great reason to assume that of him. It would be me working on a hunch. GMs who make their decisions based on hunches tend to not fare super well in this league (See: Chiarelli, Peter).

 

As a side note, I feel like we've gotten pretty far away from the thread topic. I would still love to have Dubois in the O&B! 

 

As for what it would take to get Dubois (or Laine for that matter). We'd have to give up something shiny obviously. He's a third overall pick with significant upside who played very well in his rookie season. Guys like that are virtually never traded away. And when they are, it's for a mighty haul. 

 

I would be curious to see what that price tag might be though. I highly doubt Jake and Ghost would get it done. Maybe Patrick and Ghost, if CLS has really soured on him.

Edited January 11, 2021 by elmatus

[Zzeke]

17 minutes ago, elmatus said:

I mean, It's possible sure. He should certainly improve from a 15pt season. What's his ceiling? 30pts? 40pts? 40pts in the NHL is nothing to laugh at. Does he hit 50 as his best season? That would be a great year for him.

 

Prospects are prospects until proven otherwise. There's nothing to suggest NAK is a 60pt guy (which Voracek is). He seems far more likely to be a bottom six guy who might be able to punch above his weight on occasion if needed.

 

 

Your opinion is noted and respected. But not in agreement.

 

Points? Points? Points from past performance?

 

There is a bigger picture to a well rounded team and a winning team.

 

Is the 24 year old NAK valuable? Valuable enough to protect in the Expansion Draft over Voracek?

 

We like Voracek. But, he will be 32 this year, carries a very burdensome Cap Hit of 8.25 M for 3 more seasons, and his play is on the downslope.

 

We like the 24 year old NAK. He is the fastest skater on the team, a very hard worker, has some multi-facited skill, ascending skill, and is far from his upside peak.

 

Quote:

Back in January, we saw Travis Konecny fly around the ice. Even though he placed 7th in the NHL competition, his 14.1 second time is no joke. There’s a couple of guys who fly around the ice in an orange and black sweater. Joel Farabee and TK would all be invited to this competition, but wouldn’t end up winning. The fastest guy on the Flyers would be Nic Aube-Kubel. NAK has had a stellar bounce back season for Philly. He’s come in and provided a spark for the Flyers while they were red hot. NAK not only plays each shift like his last, but he has the ability to drop the gloves, and even produce some offense from time to time. However, the most underrated aspect of his game is his speed.

 

 

In that video, you can see how quick he is. His acceleration, his ability to change direction so easily, and overall his grit and fore checking is incredibly for a player of his stature. 

 

Coach AV is very smart.

 

Many teams, and certainly our Flyers, form the 4th line to fit a specific role - - all out super-energy for about a 45 second shift. It serves to give the top-9 a breather, and has a very important job as defined by AV's 4th line profile.

 

Average game ice time in the NHL:

1st Line    19:20
2nd Line    16:22
3rd Line    13:28
4th Line    12:35

 

AV's 4th line profile/requirement is hard skating, hard forechecking, pin the other team in their own end, fast/strong backchecking, defensive work, PK duty.

 

Raffl/Bunnaman-Laughton-NAK

 

When tactfully inserted, this wears down the top lines of the opposition. Valuable.

 

Having these highly skilled 'specific role players' is very, very, valuable in today's NHL. Having these specialists on the 4th line gives needed rest to the top-9 forwards.

 

And, in our Flyers case, this 4th line has a very clear offensive element with Laughton, Raffl, and the young ascending talented NAK. They have the skill and can be dangerous scorers off their high-energy forechecking role. Some goals.

 

The all important well-rounded team.

 

Hmm. Expansion Draft. Protect the declining Voracek or the ascending NAK? IMO, it's not even close. We look ahead, not back. (Oh, and the matter of Cap Management.)

 

There is excellent on-going team depth at RW if Voracek would be selected by Seattle in the Expansion Draft:

Konecny

Farabee

NAK

Sandin

Allison

 

Points lost, if Voracek is gone, will be gained back on a team basis. Fletcher, and many of us, should be very happy if Seattle selects Voracek and not the ascending NAK.

 

All IMO.
 

[OccamsRazor]

12 hours ago, Zzeke said:

Hmm. Expansion Draft. Protect the declining Voracek or the ascending NAK? IMO, it's not even close.

 

Exactly.

 

There is some untapped talent there to be had. Sur ehe only put up 15 points but he played in the bottom 6 and if i remember was all over the place between the 3rd and 4th lines and never really got a chance to place with two other really good forwards.

 

He only played in 36 games and put up 7 goals Jake had twice as many games and only put 12 goals.

 

So to me NAK is trending upwards and Jake is descending (the reason he has been challenged by AV).

 

NAK is the second best forward on the team 5 on 5 and will only get more playing time the more he proves he can handle it. AV loves 200 foot physical forwards and NAK checks all the boxes and with his speed and nasty shot no way i am leaving him exposed....we will have a better picture on the situation after this up coming season and playoff run hopefully.

 

Jake's cap hit can be divided amongst Hart, Patrick, Sanheim, Laughton and Raffl if they choose to resign all them because they will need new deals. Plus they will need a backup goalie too.

 

And your depth still remaining is nice:

 

RW

Konecny

Farabee

NAK

Sandin

Allison

 

Sure Jake is a former 60 point guy but i would rather move on from him now and if you could trade him i sure they would but with limited cap space these upcoming season hard to move his last 3 years at 8.25 mill. So cross your fingers and hope Seattle takes him.

 

I'm not worried about the Captain being upset his boy is gone this is business like it was with Simmer.

 

Besides after this upcoming year Giroux will only have one year left on his current contract and he needs to play better too or he could be next on the way out he will be turning 34 in 2021-22.

 

The changing of the guard is near...

 

 

[Zzeke]

 

10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Exactly.

 

There is some untapped talent there to be had. Sur ehe only put up 15 points but he played in the bottom 6 and if i remember was all over the place between the 3rd and 4th lines and never really got a chance to place with two other really good forwards.

 

He only played in 36 games and put up 7 goals Jake had twice as many games and only put 12 goals.

 

So to me NAK is trending upwards and Jake is descending (the reason he has been challenged by AV).

 

NAK is the second best forward on the team 5 on 5 and will only get more playing time the more he proves he can handle it. AV loves 200 foot physical forwards and NAK checks all the boxes and with his speed and nasty shot no way i am leaving him exposed....we will have a better picture on the situation after this up coming season and playoff run hopefully.

 

Jake's cap hit can be divided amongst Hart, Patrick, Sanheim, Laughton and Raffl if they choose to resign all them because they will need new deals. Plus they will need a backup goalie too.

 

And your depth still remaining is nice:

 

RW

Konecny

Farabee

NAK

Sandin

Allison

 

Sure Jake is a former 60 point guy but i would rather move on from him now and if you could trade him i sure they would but with limited cap space these upcoming season hard to move his last 3 years at 8.25 mill. So cross your fingers and hope Seattle takes him.

 

I'm not worried about the Captain being upset his boy is gone this is business like it was with Simmer.

 

Besides after this upcoming year Giroux will only have one year left on his current contract and he needs to play better too or he could be next on the way out he will be turning 34 in 2021-22.

 

The changing of the guard is near...

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Zzeke

[Zzeke]

12 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

cancel

Edited January 11, 2021 by Zzeke

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

Somehow, the initials were changed from PLD to NAK!?!  How does that happen? 

[OccamsRazor]

20 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

Somehow, the initials were changed from PLD to NAK!?!  How does that happen? 

 

Find your readers....the rumor was...

 

PLD straight up for NAK. Don't tell anyone else....

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

On 1/10/2021 at 9:52 PM, elmatus said:

 

As a side note, I feel like we've gotten pretty far away from the thread topic. I would still love to have Dubois in the O&B! 

 

 

This was my point.

 

23 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Find your readers....the rumor was...

 

PLD straight up for NAK. Don't tell anyone else....

 

Don’t need readers.  The whole discussion about NAK revolves around the expansion draft...not trading him for PLD.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

not trading him for PLD.

 

Trying to keep the thread from dying.

 

PLD to Philly is a fantasy.

 

Flyers will stay the course with what they have.

 

It will take a desperate club IF they want to move him.

 

NJ or NYR might be in on him.

[LegionOfDoom]

PSSST........Pierre-Luc Dubois has asked for a trade.......pssst

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

9 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Trying to keep the thread from dying.

 

PLD to Philly is a fantasy.

 

Flyers will stay the course with what they have.

 

It will take a desperate club IF they want to move him.

 

NJ or NYR might be in on him.

 

Pierre LeBrun said that Columbus was getting serious offers for PLD and that if things don't go smooth in the first month,  expect the trade chatter to heat up.

 

I think the Flyers will investigate as they should, but I really believe the Flyers will try to acquire a right handed top pairing defenseman before they even consider a move for PLD. 

Edited January 13, 2021 by BobbyClarkeFan16

[LegionOfDoom]

This is how N.AK and PLD "Fit" in this thread.

 

If we protect Jake in expansion = we will most likely "loose" N.AK

If we trade for PLD this year, he will be protected in expansion = we will most likely "loose" N.AK.

N.AK will not be our sacrificial lamb fam(b).....KEEP your PLD ....PLa-eeesD

Edited January 13, 2021 by LegionOfDoom

[LegionOfDoom]

 

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

So Ghost is NOT injured.  He is in COVID protocol.  
 

Trade him now, his value will ... well, the rest would be a lie.

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

So Ghost is NOT injured.  He is in COVID protocol.  
 

Trade him now, his value will ... well, the rest would be a lie.

 

I would really like to see him get a long look with Ivan and see how that goes.

 

He was with Ivan when he has his best season maybe now he is healthy he can find that game again.

 

He certainly won't find it playing with Hagg or Braun.

[Zzeke]

13 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I would really like to see him [Ghost] get a long look with Ivan and see how that goes.

 

He was with Ivan when he has his best season maybe now he is healthy he can find that game again.

 

He certainly won't find it playing with Hagg or Braun.

 

Eventually - - Gus, IMO.