Battle For Alberta: Relevant....But How Soon?

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

 

It's no secret that both the Oilers and Flames have MUCH work to do to reach contender status once again in the NHL.

And even harder than each individual team being a contender is BOTH becoming contenders at the same time, thus re-igniting not only rivalries with other teams in their division, but their own long running rivalry: The Battle for Alberta.

 

Even living way down south in Florida of the USA for so many years, I knew about that rivalry. It is one based on pride, bragging rights, and sometimes, for position to go on to the Stanley Cup playoffs.

And the two teams couldn't be more different in terms of looks and philosophy.

Red-Orange vs Blue-Orange......stout defense vs. high powered offense......workmanlike players vs. star players....north vs. south (in Alberta anyways).....not to mention each rooting for any other teams that might be playing against the other when they aren't beating each other up.

 

Oh, I know it still exists, even with both teams having recent down seasons....after all, pride never really goes away, at least, you HOPE that isn't the case.

But I think everyone will agree, that the rivalry is best when both teams are playing well and contending for a spot in Lord Stanley's tournament and it just isn't quite the same while both are still struggling.

 

Well, with the recent draft, some acquisitions over the last couple seasons, and the maturation of some of the younger players on both sides....is it time to start paying closer attention to Edmonton vs. Calgary?

Not saying either one of these will suddenly be contenders in 201-15 (though surprises DO happen!)....far from it. 

Especially given the insane competition they face not only in the Western Conference overall, but right in their own division!

 

Still though, both teams seem to finally be doing things that would make many believe they are on the right tracks to moving towards the top of the food chain. 

Very good exciting young players on both sides, both are actively trying to address the needs in goal, and both are paying more attention to defense and board play....something Calgary has always done pretty well, yet has eluded Edmonton for many years......AND getting the personnel to play such styles.

 

So...when can fans of the NHL, and those in Alberta REALLY start getting excited about the Battle for Alberta once again?

 

Sean Monahan, Sam Bennett, David Jones, Johnny Gaudreau, Jordan Eberle, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Taylor Hall, Justin Schultz.....these are just some of the names we could be hearing alot about as early as this season, and in a GOOD way.....and names, along with some others, that can be associated with two teams fighting tooth n nail reviving an old rivalry as they try to make their way to the respectable ranks of the NHL and the playoffs, once again.

 

Let's hear about all and anything Calgary Flames and Edmonton Oilers and what you all think will happen between these two and within the NHL in general for these teams.

[OccamsRazor]

It's no secret that both the Oilers and Flames have MUCH work to do to reach contender status once again in the NHL.

 

I agree but i have to give the edge to the Flames i like what they have done this offseason and they added some decent talent to the roster. The Oilers i just don't know....i don't think they added enough.....it looks like they are still Penguining it and are trying to stay in the Mcdavid sweeps.

 

Oilers to me just didn't seem to go for it went the cheap route on their so called upgrades.

 

Guess time will tell.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

I want to agree with you, @OccamsRazor , but I think both still need to not just add more, but have what they currently have develop into legit NHL mainstays.

 

And Edmonton, to go with their young talent, did add some pretty interesting pieces as well.

Keith Aulie, Mark Fayne, and Nikita Nikitin on defense is not a bad way to start the resurgence. And those guys are in addition to Andrew Ferrence and Justin Schultz already on the team.

 

Not calling that defense 'world beaters' but still, it looks quite improved already from previous years.

And up front adding Benoit Pouliot and Teddy Purcell only bolsters their core of good offensive type guys already.

Then of course you have Viktor Fasthe and Ben Scrivens who are a better duo than Devin Dubnyk and whoever the hell else they had in there before....

 

Defense and goaltending will win championships more often than not over pure offense, but if Edmonton can finally figure out the "goal prevention" part, I believe their natural offense can do the rest.

Then the Flames may find themselves playing catch-up to the Oilers in terms of goal production, despite their possibly better defense.

 

I just hope both these teams get more national air time this coming season so more NHL fans can become aware of the good players both sides seem to be developing.....and the proper direction (finally) it seems both franchises are heading towards.

[OccamsRazor]

I want to agree with you, @OccamsRazor , but I think both still need to not just add more, but have what they currently have develop into legit NHL mainstays.

And Edmonton, to go with their young talent, did add some pretty interesting pieces as well.

Keith Aulie, Mark Fayne, and Nikita Nikitin on defense is not a bad way to start the resurgence. And those guys are in addition to Andrew Ferrence and Justin Schultz already on the team.

Not calling that defense 'world beaters' but still, it looks quite improved already from previous years.

And up front adding Benoit Pouliot and Teddy Purcell only bolsters their core of good offensive type guys already.

Then of course you have Viktor Fasthe and Ben Scrivens who are a better duo than Devin Dubnyk and whoever the hell else they had in there before....

Defense and goaltending will win championships more often than not over pure offense, but if Edmonton can finally figure out the "goal prevention" part, I believe their natural offense can do the rest.

Then the Flames may find themselves playing catch-up to the Oilers in terms of goal production, despite their possibly better defense.

I just hope both these teams get more national air time this coming season so more NHL fans can become aware of the good players both sides seem to be developing.....and the proper direction (finally) it seems both franchises are heading towards.

See I find all those additions only marginal improvements when there was some good talent to be had it seemed like they went the questionable route. But on paper I guess its much better than last years roster if I was a fan I wouldn't be happy with it. But we'll see you can't buy chemistry.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

I'd like to  hear from @JR Ewing and how he thinks his Oilers stack up against the Flames in particular not only this season, but moving beyond that as well.

[yave1964]

I still see the Oilers as a collection of talent that is not meshing, whereas the Flames seem to be building the right way. Personally, I think Hartley did an amazing job of keeping the collection of Rag tag has beens and never weres from finishing dead last. I like the collection of kids they are growing on the farm and in the NHL, tiny Johnny Gaudreau seems a lock for top nine minutes or better as long as he proves he can handle the rigors, the team shed more of the dead weight at the deadline and the offseason, while adding players who are smart additions, Hiler is miles away the best goalie in the organization, Engelland, meh overpaid but fills a need, Raymond is a nice addition, not Camelleri but not overpaid either,Bollig from Chicago will get more ice time in Calgary and can play a little bit. Add a very nice draft and the team took a small but steady step up in the offseason. Not a contender but improved.

As for the Oilers, everyone knows what they have, a ton of first rounders who are a collection of talent that has not meshed. They traded Gagner because they felt he was not working out as a second line center and then didn't add one, instead Poulliot and Purcell a couple of serviceable wingers with nobody to get them the puck. additions on the blue line were Nikitan who is limited and Aulie who simply cannot play. As for Mark Fayne? Don't ask. Draisatl could be a home run but the third pick in the draft is slated for juniors barring an eyepopping preseason.

so in short, I think the oilers are what they are and the flames are doing a better rebuild but both are miles away.

[OccamsRazor]

I'd like to  hear from @JR Ewing and how he thinks his Oilers stack up against the Flames in particular not only this season, but moving beyond that as well.

 

 

I give the Flames the edge i think just for the addition of Hiller in net. The didn't really do much to improve their blueline though i admit.

 

But Monahan, Gaudreau and Bennett are a nice crop of young forwards to build around. Flames like the Oilers still have question marks on the blueline. So that is why i give the edge to the Flames in net.

[OccamsRazor]

I still see the Oilers as a collection of talent that is not meshing, whereas the Flames seem to be building the right way.

 

Yes what you said. You explained it better than i.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

Slight **BUMP** for this thread....

 

I'd like to add some more 'meat' to this thread's bones as the season wears on.

 

I really am interested in which team will make positive advances towards contention first, as I think a healthy Edmonton and Calgary franchise is very good for the NHL as a whole and would add more flavor to a Pacific Division that is currently California flavored! 

 

Throughout the upcoming season (hurry UP NHL season!), whenever these two meet, we can come back to this thread and point out things we saw and heard, whether via boxscore, highlights, news stories, or if some of us actually sat and watched a game between these two (always best...first hand commentary).....and in that way, we can see how the Battle of Alberta really goes.

 

Fans of both the Oilers and Flames would have the best inside knowledge, of course, so I would encourage those to post their assessments, as they would be of the most interest to everyone.

 

Anyways, a true Battle for Alberta would have repercussions beyond just a rivalry game between the Flames and Oilers.

Along with it, the other Pacific teams know they have to continue to play at their high levels, lest these two upstarts steal their thunder......the rest of the West will have to be on their toes as well because a contending Edm or Cgy team means someone else will be losing a potential playoff spot....and finally, the East will need to be wary of this, as those long road trips to Western Canada may no longer be as 'fun' for them, facing down Alberta teams who will no longer be 'pushovers' in the W-L department.

 

Even if both the Oilers and Flames struggle this year (which I suspect they still might), with the talent now available on both sides, and talent still maturing, the games, quite honestly, should be more exciting and interesting than in recent seasons past.

 

So let's all keep this thread going once the season gets underway on the doings of both these clubs.

Whether you want to root for them or against them, I think we can all agree their games will matter more in the big picture sooner than later!

 

These two will meet in the pre-season on Sun, Sept 21, but more importantly, will face off as opponents on Thurs, Oct 9, as REGULAR season opponents....will be the 1st game of the season for the Oil (Edm home opener), and will be Game 2 for the Flames....Calgary will have played Vancouver the night before for their own opening night.

 

That will be our first real opportunity to see how these two clubs stack up to one another when it counts.

[Hatrik98]

 

It's no secret that both the Oilers and Flames have MUCH work to do to reach contender status once again in the NHL.

And even harder than each individual team being a contender is BOTH becoming contenders at the same time, thus re-igniting not only rivalries with other teams in their division, but their own long running rivalry: The Battle for Alberta.

 

Even living way down south in Florida of the USA for so many years, I knew about that rivalry. It is one based on pride, bragging rights, and sometimes, for position to go on to the Stanley Cup playoffs.

And the two teams couldn't be more different in terms of looks and philosophy.

Red-Orange vs Blue-Orange......stout defense vs. high powered offense......workmanlike players vs. star players....north vs. south (in Alberta anyways).....not to mention each rooting for any other teams that might be playing against the other when they aren't beating each other up.

 

Oh, I know it still exists, even with both teams having recent down seasons....after all, pride never really goes away, at least, you HOPE that isn't the case.

But I think everyone will agree, that the rivalry is best when both teams are playing well and contending for a spot in Lord Stanley's tournament and it just isn't quite the same while both are still struggling.

 

Well, with the recent draft, some acquisitions over the last couple seasons, and the maturation of some of the younger players on both sides....is it time to start paying closer attention to Edmonton vs. Calgary?

Not saying either one of these will suddenly be contenders in 201-15 (though surprises DO happen!)....far from it. 

Especially given the insane competition they face not only in the Western Conference overall, but right in their own division!

 

Still though, both teams seem to finally be doing things that would make many believe they are on the right tracks to moving towards the top of the food chain. 

Very good exciting young players on both sides, both are actively trying to address the needs in goal, and both are paying more attention to defense and board play....something Calgary has always done pretty well, yet has eluded Edmonton for many years......AND getting the personnel to play such styles.

 

So...when can fans of the NHL, and those in Alberta REALLY start getting excited about the Battle for Alberta once again?

 

Sean Monahan, Sam Bennett, David Jones, Johnny Gaudreau, Jordan Eberle, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Taylor Hall, Justin Schultz.....these are just some of the names we could be hearing alot about as early as this season, and in a GOOD way.....and names, along with some others, that can be associated with two teams fighting tooth n nail reviving an old rivalry as they try to make their way to the respectable ranks of the NHL and the playoffs, once again.

 

Let's hear about all and anything Calgary Flames and Edmonton Oilers and what you all think will happen between these two and within the NHL in general for these teams.

I think the Oilers are in better shape. If the Injury Bug would just lay off the Oil for a season, I think they could possibly contend for a 8 spot in the playoffs. I think they have some good tools to work with. I think Fasth was a huge pick up for them in the cage.

[ruxpin]

With the current front offices running each franchise, I will confidently continue to ignore both until proven otherwise. I just have no confidence in either team doing anything in the near future.

[jammer2]

@ruxpin  I think both teams will be vastly improved, with Ramo and Fasth leading the way. Nothing like a little stability in the nets to turn a teams fortunes around,. Ramo showed signs of dominating late last year, winning almost all of his close winnable teams, with an AHL defense to boot.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

@ruxpin  I think both teams will be vastly improved, with Ramo and Fasth leading the way. Nothing like a little stability in the nets to turn a teams fortunes around,. Ramo showed signs of dominating late last year, winning almost all of his close winnable teams, with an AHL defense to boot.

 

I agree both clubs should be vastly improved, however, I can't blame @ruxpin for taking the stance he does. Many others have as well.

Let's face it...the Flames and Oilers haven't given anyone much to get excited about or much of a reason to think they will be any different this coming season.

 

I think they will be, expected struggles aside, but as they say, proof is in the playing.  I just think starting with this season, it is worth following both teams' adventures throughout the season.

[jammer2]

@TropicalFruitGirl26  I'm so happy for the loyal Flames fans, they *finally* have the 1-2 punch at center they have been yearning for. The combo of Monahan and Bennett is gonna be so much fun to watch going forward. I can't see how the Flames will be able to keep the ultra competitive Bennett off the roster, he should be the second line center and have a great rookie season. Hopefully, the Flames have enough skill at the wings to give him a shot at some decent stats.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

Yet another **bump** for this thread.

 

Been about 5 months since this was started and almost as long since the last post.....and much has happened with both the Oilers and Flames since.

 

Calgary DID start the season like a house of fire....err, no pun intended. 

In fact, I started to believe they they would actually hang in their division's top three all season!

 

Of course, they fell back to earth some, are near the bottom of their division currently, but point-wise, are still in decent shape.

The Calgary PP, while still ranked pretty well in the league (10th) has struggled with consistency right before the Christmas break and the PK has had its issues lately and is currently ranked near the bottom of the league at around 75% percent.

 

The Oilers?

Oh my the Oilers. Many of us suspected they might still struggle a bit, but did anyone see an 11 game losing streak followed very quickly by another losing streak that currently still stands 8 games??

Kudos to @OccamsRazor and @yave1964 for not buying into the hype that I even bought into with the Oilers during the pre-season. Yes, I know there were many other people not buying the Oilers 'resurgence', but you two guys, based on what has transpired with the team and personnel this season, seemed to have been spot on so far!

 

Not that I expected the Oilers to be suddenly elite, but anyone who has read my earlier posts here would see I thought that they should be better...WAY better than recent past teams and certainly better than the trainwreck they have proven to be so far this season.

Edmonton had a nice stretch earlier in the season where they reeled off 4 straight wins (and in those wins were good offensive teams like Wash, TB, and Mon), but that has been IT!

I thought they turned a corner, but games after that win streak proved otherwise.

 

They fired their coach, their GM is trying to put out fires with the media and the organization is simply scrambling around trying to find answers to their long laundry list of woes.

They have 7 lousy wins on the season (35 games in...ouch!) and only ONE of those wins (2-1 over the Sharks) was against their Conference rivals.

 

Head to head, the Oilers and Flames have only met just one time this season...first game of the year, which Calgary took convincingly 5-2.

The two teams, coming out of the Christmas break, will meet twice in games that will be less than a week a apart.

 

At this point in time, both seem to be struggling once again, again, the Oil with the current 8 game losing streak, and the Flames, though winning the last game before the break, had an 8 game losing streak of their own prior to that!

One team's woes will continue while the other gets a brief reprieve from getting hammered with yet another loss.

 

I will say this for Edmonton (and this may still just be me still believing Edmonton has a little something left in them): they have been in many of the games during their current losing streak...in fact, they have lead in a few of them. But somehow, someway, always seem to find a way to get the 'L' instead of the 'W'.

At this point, aside from the obvious player chemistry, mismanagement of talent, or whatever else we wanna call it...I think its in their heads.

 

The Oil seem to play games NOT to lose them, instead of trying to play to win.

Can the two Alberta rivals find enough during the week after Christmas break to revive themselves enough to make runs at respectability after all?

 

For the Flames, I am sure they would like to get back to playing the kind of hockey that saw them start out fast and furious...for the Oilers, they'd be happy to not just get a win any way they can, but if they do, transfer that to the kind of confidence that will help them win more games after that.

 

Oilers coming out of the break will face @Calgary , vs Los Angeles, and @Calgary...

Meanwhile, the Flames are looking at vs Edmonton, vs Los Angles, and vs Edmonton.

 

Interesting that over the first week out of break, not only do the two Alberta teams face each other twice, but they BOTH face the defending champion Kings in between their own matchups.

 

Plenty of measuring stick games there, I think...facing each other and the Stanley Cup champs apiece.

Should make for some interesting compare and contrast situations when that small stretch of games concludes...

[OccamsRazor]

Yet another **bump** for this thread.

 

Been about 5 months since this was started and almost as long since the last post.....and much has happened with both the Oilers and Flames since.

 

Calgary DID start the season like a house of fire....err, no pun intended. 

In fact, I started to believe they they would actually hang in their division's top three all season!

 

Of course, they fell back to earth some, are near the bottom of their division currently, but point-wise, are still in decent shape.

The Calgary PP, while still ranked pretty well in the league (10th) has struggled with consistency right before the Christmas break and the PK has had its issues lately and is currently ranked near the bottom of the league at around 75% percent.

 

The Oilers?

Oh my the Oilers. Many of us suspected they might still struggle a bit, but did anyone see an 11 game losing streak followed very quickly by another losing streak that currently still stands 8 games??

Kudos to @OccamsRazor and @yave1964 for not buying into the hype that I even bought into with the Oilers during the pre-season. Yes, I know there were many other people not buying the Oilers 'resurgence', but you two guys, based on what has transpired with the team and personnel this season, seemed to have been spot on so far!

 

Not that I expected the Oilers to be suddenly elite, but anyone who has read my earlier posts here would see I thought that they should be better...WAY better than recent past teams and certainly better than the trainwreck they have proven to be so far this season.

Edmonton had a nice stretch earlier in the season where they reeled off 4 straight wins (and in those wins were good offensive teams like Wash, TB, and Mon), but that has been IT!

I thought they turned a corner, but games after that win streak proved otherwise.

 

They fired their coach, their GM is trying to put out fires with the media and the organization is simply scrambling around trying to find answers to their long laundry list of woes.

They have 7 lousy wins on the season (35 games in...ouch!) and only ONE of those wins (2-1 over the Sharks) was against their Conference rivals.

 

Head to head, the Oilers and Flames have only met just one time this season...first game of the year, which Calgary took convincingly 5-2.

The two teams, coming out of the Christmas break, will meet twice in games that will be less than a week a apart.

 

At this point in time, both seem to be struggling once again, again, the Oil with the current 8 game losing streak, and the Flames, though winning the last game before the break, had an 8 game losing streak of their own prior to that!

One team's woes will continue while the other gets a brief reprieve from getting hammered with yet another loss.

 

I will say this for Edmonton (and this may still just be me still believing Edmonton has a little something left in them): they have been in many of the games during their current losing streak...in fact, they have lead in a few of them. But somehow, someway, always seem to find a way to get the 'L' instead of the 'W'.

At this point, aside from the obvious player chemistry, mismanagement of talent, or whatever else we wanna call it...I think its in their heads.

 

The Oil seem to play games NOT to lose them, instead of trying to play to win.

Can the two Alberta rivals find enough during the week after Christmas break to revive themselves enough to make runs at respectability after all?

 

For the Flames, I am sure they would like to get back to playing the kind of hockey that saw them start out fast and furious...for the Oilers, they'd be happy to not just get a win any way they can, but if they do, transfer that to the kind of confidence that will help them win more games after that.

 

Oilers coming out of the break will face @Calgary , vs Los Angeles, and @Calgary...

Meanwhile, the Flames are looking at vs Edmonton, vs Los Angles, and vs Edmonton.

 

Interesting that over the first week out of break, not only do the two Alberta teams face each other twice, but they BOTH face the defending champion Kings in between their own matchups.

 

Plenty of measuring stick games there, I think...facing each other and the Stanley Cup champs apiece.

Should make for some interesting compare and contrast situations when that small stretch of games concludes...

 

 

Yes and sadly i feel they are going to add Connor Mcdavid to their collection of forwards/hoarding.....kind of a travesty for the NHL.