Polaris922

Unless the Pens bought out Fleury...

He used to loaf at a bar I stopped in once or twice. The Michael he refers to was a guy who was there all the time and a friend of the family so to speak.

There's a difference there though. When I point at Malkin it's because he's been lazy. I don't attack my players for not producing so much as long as the effort is there. Lazy defensive play or lazy offensive play are a different story.

Okay? Lol

@radoran If you watched all of the games, you know Crosby was pressing every shift. He had a bad game I think in game 5, but otherwise the guy pressed all the time. I still think its more the coaching than the skill set or player attitude. Systems matter in hockey. And they can win and lose entire series. Blaming Crosby, or any one individual really, is playing a blame game rather than analyzing the actual events. @ruxpin If there was a true dispute there, I'd lean more towards frustration with the system or lack if adapting the system.

I don't know how anyone can question his attitude this past playoff series. The guy busted his hump, just didn't produce. He wasn't a brat, wasn't complaining or a distraction... It just didnt work this year. 29 teams get to say the same thing. Ours is one of them.

It got him into the Hall of Fame so it works! I love the guy. Some of them "Michael Michael motorcycle" is a statement when someone does something amazing. Coincidentally it's a reference to a mutual friend of ours named Michael who loved his Harley Davidson motorcycles and died very young from cancer. He used to get very excited watching hockey. I doubt they all have meanings, but I like the expressions as they're more about his emotions than trying to make sense.

I don't think they'd trade him. I certainly don't think he'd get the deserved return so soon after his stroke. I agree he's a very valuable commodity, and as I've said before, prior to this season they lose more games when he's hurt than any other single player in their lineup. Perhaps that's an indication of how important a puck carrying defenseman can be.

No worries though just didn't want you to think I'm crazier than I already am. I think... Sorta...

@flyerrod @nossagog @B21 I agree with B... Letang's health is more the issue than his salary. I can think of a few teams easily that would be interested. (Toronto, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Dallas, etc etc...) The stroke will diminish the return but he's still a marketable commodity. Without the health concern there would be a line to talk about him.

@mojo1917 You read it wrong bud... I said the Bruins outperformed the Pens, not the other way around.

Crosby played more regular season games by 4. They played the same Olympic and preseason games. And Sid only had one more playoff game till today. Now they're even. I just don't know that after three years of shorter seasons for Sid that would be a factor? Can you train for season length??

But that's really no different then. If you have a GM and keep him as a cap specialist, you still have two people. If you make him the GM and have a talent specialist you still have two people. LOL

@ruxpin I don't know. I mean, I really focused on the man at the games I went to to see what was happening away from the puck. And let me tell you, there was no lack of effort there. He looked off in some ways... as I said before, he seemed to have the puck wander off his stick more than I remember, and seemed to be missing the net a lot those rare times when he would actually shoot. Now I've never played a schedule like the pro players do, and certainly never at a competition level even close to what they do on a day in day out basis.... but I have wondered about fatigue. Crosby just had his first FULL healthy season in a few years. He played 80 regular season games, plus 6 Olympic games, plus 6 pre-season games, and then 6 playoff games against the Jackets... 98 games under his belt before the series against the Rangers started. The guy was always in amazing condition. But I wonder if somewhere along the line it just took its toll on him. More games than Toews, Kane, and many similar players who are still skating... I don't know. And thanks for the remark about the post. I was dead tired but tried to get my thoughts together. LOL

I'll be watching closely... as you will too I'm sure. @nossagog!!

@B21 What if they have a numbers guy running the show with a major talent evaluator handling scouting and talent assessment?

As has been shown in @B21 's previous thread there's room to breathe. We'll see what happens.

I'll just address all of you in one post here so as not to confuse myself to the point of alcoholism. I agree the 26 year old Crosby could use a mentor. Iginla wasn't it. He came here and failed to produce whether with Sid or anyone else. Sid didn't refuse to play with Iginla. Bylsma refused to play Iginla with Sid because he wasn't fast enough to be part of the play. I'd call for it time and time again, but admittedly when it happened, Iginla was far behind the action on a lot of occasions and just didn't have the wheels to stay up. For whatever reason Iginla didn't produce here, and for the money Boston paid him, he wouldn't work here. Sid has a very mixed resume right now. He came into the league on fire, and really took the reigns of the wagon here. He competed for a Cup, then won a Cup, and all the while absorbing non-stop abuse league wide for his youthful antics running his mouth. I was happily willing to forgive him the youthful mistakes as he matured into a captain that led his team to a championship. His skill level was head and shoulders above all comers, and his leadership was beyond reproach... for awhile... I've sat here thinking about a lot of the comments made recently. I haven't commented much about it because I wanted to read up a little on the history of things and put it all together in my little pea brain. A review of the playoff series events after the Cup win, Crosby's concussion issues and soft tissue damage to his neck, and overall team success/failures helps but isn't decisive. The Penguins lost in the conference semifinals to the Canadiens the following year after a see-saw 7 game series. Fleury wasn't very good (.892 save %) losing two one goal games leading up to the game 7, which the Habs won handily 5-2. In researching this series and trying to see what had changed from the season before, I came across this quote from an article prior to game 7... "The key to the Penguins winning is altering their game plan to counteract the style that Montreal is playing. Penguins assistant coach Tony Granato was quoted (paraphrased here) during Game Six on the CBC Hockey Night in Canada broadcast as saying that the Penguins do not need to worry about how the Canadiens are playing and must stick to their own game plan. I am not an NHL coach or former player by any means, and with all due respect to Tony Granato, if the Penguins do not make adjustments based on the Canadiens game plan they can say hello to the golf course earlier this season." Guess what? The Penguins lost. They never adjusted their game plan to the Habs and they lost. That was the start of the road we're discussing here... what's wrong. In fairness, the Habs had limited Crosby, Malkin, and Staal to three goals in six games total. Is that one player? Or a system refusing to adapt? Was it leadership? Bill Guerin was there and Crosby thought the world of him. Was it maturity? I don't think so, because Guerin was a good enough leadership influence on Crosby to win it all the year before, and that didn't change. My opinion? The refusal to change the game plan. No effort to adjust. Coaching was the problem. Here is where Crosby gets his concussion, and then misdiagnosed concussion that was realy soft tissue damage in his neck. Was this a turning point in Crosby's approach?? Let's see... So let's go through all of the following season's issues. The Pens played the LIghtning the next season in the first round. They were up 3 games to 1 and eventually lost in 7. Why? Crosby and Malkin were out due to injury. Fleury was eaten alive games 5 and 6. Then lost a 1-0 bid in game 7. The Pens couldn't score. By all accounts, Fleury stood on his head, Roloson just stood better. The Pens dominated the game in every way but the scoreboard, and Roloson walked out with 36 saves. The story? Not enough offense without Sid and Geno in the lineup. The Lightning had their stars and the Pens did not. Was the problem coaching? I don't think so. I think it was sheer talent differential. Injury was the problem. So move on to the next season... Your Flyers came to town. Crosby scored goals in three games, and points in five. Despite the antics, despite "the shift" as you like to call it, despite Malklin all but being asleep as usual for his first round. Unlike Malkin his points weren't all in the 10-3 route in game 4, though one of his goals was. Crosby had a very good series against your Flyers despite what winning the series might have convinced you. He had 8 points spread out in the series. His -3 stat is more a reflection of Fleury letting in shots from center ice than anything he did. Was he angry? Yes.. but I remember quite a few seasons of an "angry" Crosby scoring point after point against the Flyers. Did he fail his team? Or was that season more on Fleury? If memory serves, despite Bryzgalov's rough series, the general consensus was Fleury blew it badly. Game in and game out. Fleury giving up 4 or more goals (4/8/8/5) in the four games Philly won are pretty telling. And these weren't hard work, defensive breakdown kinds of goals all along. A lot of this was pure garbage goaltending. Goaltending was the problem. Crosby was not his usual focused playoff self, but he was not the problem. Was Crosby different here than he'd been previously? He never acted up in losing to the Wings in 2008, but that series was close enough game in game out that he had to be focused because they could still win... was his temper and emotion a bad thing? Was he really OFF his game with 3 goals and 5 assists in 6 games vs. Giroux? No. Not at all. Now we move on to the ECF last season with Boston. The Penguins came out and Boston outperformed them in every single category known to man. Bylsma repeatedly said throughout the series that the Pens didn't need to adjust to the Bruins, they just needed to play their system and it would take care of itself. Boston showed a suffocating defensive system. They stormed us in game 2 with 6 goals, many on an overwhelming forecheck. Malkin actually FOUGHT Bergeron when the game was still 1-0 Bruins. To me, that tells me a few things. Frustration was already set in. For the entire team. Was it Crosby? Or was it Bylsma? Was it the entire squad? Letang had the worst playoff series of his life. Who is to blame when an entire team collapses? The captain? the coach? the system? each and every one of them? Iginla? Morrow? Vokoun?? Game 1 was totally out of control. The officiating was horrendous, and you hadn't seen obstruction, after whistle scrums, and general nastiness like that since the Flyers won a Cup (like what I did there? ). Game 2 the Pens imploded. They let the lack of officiating and the Bruins clutch-grab system get them off the game of hockey, and that was a lost cause. They stunk. Games 3 and 4 were 1 goal losses. The Bruins outworked the Pens, winning in double overtime and then a 1-0 game 4. The Penguins coaches FINALLY admitted that they adjusted their approach to address the Bruins' ways... but by then it was too late. So who is to blame for losing to the Bruins? Crosby? Byslma? Both? All of them... flat out all of them. In the day of million dollar ballerinas on skates they're ALL responsible. This year they had the Rangers 3-1.. and we all saw the debacle that turned into. I call it a sense of entitlement. It's definitely a maturity issue. Without a doubt in my mind. Who is responsible for that? Crosby? Malkin? Bylsma? Lemieux? I sum it all up with a simple statement. Sidney Crosby is paid a LOT of money to perform. Evgeni Malkin is paid a LOT of money to perform. The entire roster, from top to bottom, is paid a LOT of money to perform. Dan Bylsma is paid a LOT of money to harness these men and drive them towards the goal of winning hockey games. He is paid to adjust the system to the adversity they're facing and find a way to overcome the obstacle. Crosby is 26. Malkin is 27. They've known nothing BUT hockey their entire lives. They shouldn't need their hands held. Bylsma shouldn't need told the system is failing and you need to adjust. Yet against the Rangers, nothing was adjusted. And then Lundqvist stole game 7. So what is the solution? Is Sidney Crosby really to blame for 8 lost games of playoff hockey? Single handedly? I thought this was a team sport? No man wins the Cup alone. Is Bylsma the one responsible? Could he have done things differently? Can he get on the ice and force players to try harder? Can he hold men who make $9 million more accountable and get their attention? How do you fix this? WHat is the answer? The owners have taken a military/police method of solving the problem. Ultimately the GM is responsible for those beneath him. Ray Shero paid the price for the team's failure. Will Bylsma pay as well? Will Crosby or Malkin be traded? (hell no!) Do individuals pay the price or is it an enviroment change that's needed? For me, it's about the atmosphere. There are no surefire answers. Maybe this is the exact thing a relatively young team with two young stars needs to have happen to teach them the value of the Cup. Maybe the first one came early and seemingly easy to them, and they need a wake up call. Maybe they could write off the loss to Boston and something else, and they needed this dose of reality to bring them the maturity they need. They had to lose a Cup to Detroit before learning how to win one. Maybe... just maybe.. they change nothing else and go on to win 3 or 4 Cups over the next 5 to 10 years? We all sit here and critique. But the simple fact is the only ones that know what efforts were put forward, are the men wearing the sweaters. The only ones that know what the coach did or did not do, are those same men and the coaches. So without panicking and jumping to point the finger like a school kid, I'll wait and see what they do, and what they make of it. I have no answers, only hope.

Not gonna work

The forwards made sure of it! Ouch!

Neal should've received a longer suspension for his last incident, but it looks like he's been told to grow up. Cooke did well cleaning up his act until this playoffs. Sooner or later the league has to address him. As for prison, I reserve that for Bertuzzi/McSorley types.

I just don't think Price can do it alone!

I never look at them differently. I called for Cooke to change and Neal as well. It's that side of Neal that has me torn on trading him. If it weren't for that I'd never consider it!

Who got testy? You're think skinned if that seemed testy to you. Just saying they are right there with those teams as far as success. It's been 5 seasons now since it succeeded, sure, but it works. It had been 17 seasons the other way. As for homerish pens drivel, I'll just ignore that as unnecessary nonsense added thinking I was being abusive towards you. If you know me you know better.