radoran Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 6 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said: Funny thing is, the Panthers have 'been there, done that' with Yandle. I mean, where you do you think your boys got him from? Yandle was bought out by Florida...only to have Philadelphia pick him up off the trash heap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegx.ca Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 15 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said: I still say Florida and Calgary have to make some other deal to compliment this big one they did with each other. I want to say Florida got the "best player in the deal moving forward", but Jonathan Huberdeau is no slouch in the production department either for Calgary. Thing is, Tkachuk is such a combination of workmanlike grind and goal scoring, plus being 5 years younger, that I think it puts him over the top as the best player in this deal. But back to more deals.... Florida's Achilles Heel seems to be that defense, though some may want to put Bobrovsky as being a weakness as well, though you wouldn't know it by his regular seasons anyway. As good as Tkachuk is, he doesn't address Florida's weak points. And abuse of the Florida defense is one of the main reasons the Lightning swept away the President's trophy winning Panthers. They should be on the prowl to add a solid defenseman somehow. As for Calgary, if they can manage to keep both Weegar and Huberdeau on past this coming season, then one could say they did very well as has been mentioned by others already. But, they would need a contingency plan if one or both of those players decided they want to go elsewhere after the 22-23 season. So, I'd look for Calgary to try and get some up n coming player to add to their roster, some RFA maybe they can trade the rights for. Or maybe even just pick up some project player they can start working with right now. An Ondrej Kase, Sonny Milano, or Sam Steel whom Anaheim left unsigned. If the Flames can ride things out this season, they will have Milan Lucic and Sean Monahan coming off their books (around 11.5M in cap space), so that will create room for other signings. Treliving will probably extend Monahan for less money now that he can bargain him down...which isn't bad depending on how low he can sign him for...hopefully same for Lucic if Treliving can sign Lucic for cheaper I'll be really happy...Huberdeau and Weegar we probably won't be able to extend but we could trade them for something depending on how the season goes...I think Tkachuk will help Florida alot this year so I don't think Florida made a bad deal but I just keeps making me think what Calgary could have gotten for Gaudreau... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Villella McMeans said: Treliving will probably extend Monahan for less money now that he can bargain him down...which isn't bad depending on how low he can sign him for...hopefully same for Lucic if Treliving can sign Lucic for cheaper I'll be really happy...Huberdeau and Weegar we probably won't be able to extend but we could trade them for something depending on how the season goes...I think Tkachuk will help Florida alot this year so I don't think Florida made a bad deal but I just keeps making me think what Calgary could have gotten for Gaudreau... Lol. Why would he WANT to extend Monahan? The guy has been nothing but downhill for 3 years. He's a 4th liner production who was playing with superstars 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Good news for the Flames: @Villella McMeans Hold on... You want the Flames to extend Lucic after 2023? He had 6 points after the All-Star break, and Sutter was forced cut his minutes back with every month that went by, to the extent that he was under 10 minutes in the playoffs. If I'm Brad Treliving, I'm excitedly marking every day on the calendar in red until I have him off my payroll, especially since the trade to acquire him hurt so badly this past Spring. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 2 hours ago, JR Ewing said: He had 6 points after the All-Star break What would that be if we prorated? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted July 25, 2022 Author Share Posted July 25, 2022 3 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said: Absolutely agree. A completely crazy contract and cap hit for what should be a 4th line center. And I thought Laughton's cap hit was bad... Is Monahan even healthy and ready to come off of IR status? To be fair, Monahan's contract wasn't that crazy when it was signed. 19 yr old, high end, high ceiling first rounder...then he went on to have several 60'ish point seasons, even broke 80 pts on one of them before falling off a competitive cliff that NO ONE really saw coming. Obviously the team took a gamble giving a 19 yr old the kind of money they did (as do many teams in similar circumstances), but Monahan was proving everyone right up until 2 seasons ago. Something changed about him. Mechanics, lost desire to play, personal stuff....who knows. If I am the Flames I wouldn't look to extending him, especially if they have other options, and I'd rather take the freed up cap space (Lucic's too!), but when the Flames signed Monahan at the time they did, it was very much the correct move. Just goes to show...no matter how much promise a guy shows or even is in the process paying dividends, things can happen that turns a standard 'star contract' into a nightmare. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 25 minutes ago, ruxpin said: What would that be if we prorated? Cheese moment in sports: when the Oilers and Flames agreed to the Neal/Lucic trade, they agreed on a condition which stipulated that the Oilers must send a 3rd round pick if James Neal scored 20 goals. He scored 19, but the NHL decided to pro-rate Neal's totals, meaning that the conditions were meant for the 3rd round pick to go to Calgary. You can take the league out of the bush, but you can't take the bush out of the league. It sucks, but doesn't matter in the end. The trade worked out handsomely for Edmonton. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said: Obviously the team took a gamble giving a 19 yr old the kind of money they did (as do many teams in similar circumstances), but Monahan was proving everyone right up until 2 seasons ago. Something changed about him. Mechanics, lost desire to play, personal stuff....who knows. From everything I've seen, it's an accumulation of injuries which have taken their toll on him. Ales Hemsky had developed into a point-per-game by the time he was 25 years old. In 2010, he separated his shoulder and had surgery. The next year, he re-aggravated that injury, and had to under-go another operation. Overnight, his offensive production was cut in half. These things happen. Edited July 25, 2022 by JR Ewing 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted July 25, 2022 Author Share Posted July 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, JR Ewing said: From everything I've seen, it's an accumulation of injuries which have taken their toll on him. And that is a damned shame. He could be out of hockey before he is even 30 at that rate due to that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegx.ca Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 10 hours ago, J0e Th0rnton said: Lol. Why would he WANT to extend Monahan? The guy has been nothing but downhill for 3 years. He's a 4th liner production who was playing with superstars Haha yeah...but he'll probably take less now and at at around 2.5M or 3.5M for him isn't bad plus he might do better after surgery...hoping so at least... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegx.ca Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 3 hours ago, JR Ewing said: Cheese moment in sports: when the Oilers and Flames agreed to the Neal/Lucic trade, they agreed on a condition which stipulated that the Oilers must send a 3rd round pick if James Neal scored 20 goals. He scored 19, but the NHL decided to pro-rate Neal's totals, meaning that the conditions were meant for the 3rd round pick to go to Calgary. You can take the league out of the bush, but you can't take the bush out of the league. It sucks, but doesn't matter in the end. The trade worked out handsomely for Edmonton. Handsomely for Calgary you mean...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegx.ca Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 6 hours ago, JR Ewing said: Good news for the Flames: @Villella McMeans Hold on... You want the Flames to extend Lucic after 2023? He had 6 points after the All-Star break, and Sutter was forced cut his minutes back with every month that went by, to the extent that he was under 10 minutes in the playoffs. If I'm Brad Treliving, I'm excitedly marking every day on the calendar in red until I have him off my payroll, especially since the trade to acquire him hurt so badly this past Spring. Yeah extend him if cheaper of course like around 3M or 3.5M I think Calgary being the toughest team in the league helped them and because Lucic wasn't playing tough with Edmonton because he's friends with all of them they tricked Calgary out of their game of beating everyone up to win like they did to Nashville...it was like they made some secret agreement not to fight in the playoffs...anyways it wasn't just having Lucic he can't do it all himself is having Gudbrandson too and Ritchie for under a million and Zadorov the toughness is spread out everywhere over 2 forward lines and the defence...for Sutter hockey to win they have to play like they did against Nashville and intimidate other teams by fighting not just hard checks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Villella McMeans said: Handsomely for Calgary you mean...? -Due to Lucic's contract status, Calgary was forced to protect him in the Seattle expansion draft, and lost Mark Giordano. This is a player who is universally respected, and who was only two years removed from a Norris Trophy and one year removed from a Mark Messier award. -Edmonton was able to buyout Neal's contract and use that money on Zach Hyman, who scored 6-2-8 in 5 games against the Flames in the playoffs. All of this while Lucic went scoreless, playing the 2nd-fewest minutes on the team. Even Ed Whelan would have called that a loss for the Flames. Edited July 26, 2022 by JR Ewing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegx.ca Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 8 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said: Really? For a 14 min ATOI what should be a 20-30 point 4th line center forced into a 3rd line center because of roster deficiencies? I'm guessing he's the 3rd line center with Rooney as the 4th line center. Can't say I agree he's worth that type of money just because he's being forced into a role he doesn't seem to be capable of earning as of late. Injury or not. Because he's in a position he shouldn't be in doesn't mean he's worth more money. Edmonton was able to get rid of Lucic. Sorry, but I don't think there's any doubt which team made out in that deal, no matter what the return was, or where it currently is. What? Lmao. Ok. You have serious over-evaluations on what you believe some talent is worth in today's NHL. Because there's no way that a 34 year old Lucic is worthy of a 3 or 3.5 mil cap hit contract. That's just Chuck Fletcher crazy right there. As bad as Monahan is, he's worth more than what Lucic is worth. And, imo, Monahan shouldn't be offered anything over a 2 mil per contract. 6 hours ago, JR Ewing said: -Due to Lucic's contract status, Calgary was forced to protect him in the Seattle expansion draft, and lost Mark Giordano. This is a player who is universally respected, and who was only two years removed from a Norris Trophy and one year removed from a Mark Messier award. -Edmonton was able to buyout Neal's contract and use that money on Zach Hyman, who scored 6-2-8 in 5 games against the Flames in the playoffs. All of this while Lucic went scoreless, playing the 2nd-fewest minutes on the team. Even Ed Whelan would have called that a loss for the Flames. Nah...Lucic has been good for Calgary and being the heavyweight champ of the NHL is worth 3.5M at least...Giordano just signed for 1M for another year so it's reasonable that other older guys will take part cuts too...Hyman is a good signing for sure but that's not because for the Neal/Lucic trade that's just Edmonton literally paying more to get rid of Neal to create cap space Calgary had cap space to afford him too but he chose Edmonton so Calgary took Coleman instead...and I don't see the Edmonton playoff series as what last season for Calgary is judged on I still like Calgary line up better than Edmonton...just bad luck that Calgary didn't play tough against Edmonton like they did against Dallas...anyways we'll see what Calgary does but I think they'll re-sign then both and Calgary will do worse than last year because of the changes from last year's roster but should still make the playoffs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Villella McMeans said: Nah...Lucic has been good for Calgary and being the heavyweight champ of the NHL is worth 3.5M at least... Giordano just signed for 1M for another year so it's reasonable that other older guys will take part cuts too... I'm guessing that was directed at @FireDillabaugh, but I'll comment all the same. No way, no how. $3.5M on a 4th liner, in a salary cap league, is preposterous. Never mind his $5.25M AAV this year. That's a spot that should be filled by a bargain contract. 5 hours ago, Villella McMeans said: Hyman is a good signing for sure but that's not because for the Neal/Lucic trade that's just Edmonton literally paying more to get rid of Neal to create cap space Calgary had cap space to afford him too but he chose Edmonton so Calgary took Coleman instead... July 27/21: Edmonton buys out the contract of James Neal, saving $5M AAV per year. July 28/21: Edmonton signs Zach Hyman to a contract with a $5.5M AAV For the Oilers, that signing was made possible because of the Neal/Lucic trade. For the Flames, it meant that they lost out on being able to sign Blake Coleman AND another player in that salary range... 5 hours ago, Villella McMeans said: and I don't see the Edmonton playoff series as what last season for Calgary is judged on I still like Calgary line up better than Edmonton...just bad luck that Calgary didn't play tough against Edmonton like they did against Dallas...anyways we'll see what Calgary does but I think they'll re-sign then both and Calgary will do worse than last year because of the changes from last year's roster but should still make the playoffs... I like Calgary's roster, too, and I'd be surprised if they didn't make the playoffs. Edited July 26, 2022 by JR Ewing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 it's deja vu all over again... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegx.ca Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 6 hours ago, JR Ewing said: I'm guessing that was directed at @FireDillabaugh, but I'll comment all the same. No way, no how. $3.5M on a 4th liner, in a salary cap league, is preposterous. Never mind his $5.25M AAV this year. That's a spot that should be filled by a bargain contract. Well...we'll just have to agree to disagree there...I think Lucic is worth more than other 4th liners...having him and Gudbrandson allowed players like Tkachuk and Mangepanne and Dube etc play with more confidence and toughness and even Gaudreau had more room to play with teammates that can intimate the other team...I don't think it's any coincidence that all those players and the entire team had record seasons with toughness throughout the lineup it's not that Lucic alone makes all the difference it's the sum of the parts being with more and if Calgary just had 1 tough guy...it's like 1 tough guy is good but 2 tough guys is exponentially better for the team and so on...it's about the right combinations and right fit of course but if Calgary let's Lucic test free agency I don't see him getting less than 3-3.5M there will a be team willing to pay that or more for him... 6 hours ago, JR Ewing said: July 27/21: Edmonton buys out the contract of James Neal, saving $5M AAV per year. July 28/21: Edmonton signs Zach Hyman to a contract with a $5.5M AAV I know it happened as you posted but I don't agree the Neal was beneficial for the sake of that..that like saying if I leased Lada for 5M/year a year ago and now I want to lease a Mercedes instead so I payed extra to get out of my previous lease I could lease the Mercedes instead...it would have been better not to have leased the Lada in the first place is my point...anyways we'll just have to agree to disagree that Edmonton won that trade too... 6 hours ago, JR Ewing said: For the Oilers, that signing was made possible because of the Neal/Lucic trade. For the Flames, it meant that they lost out on being able to sign Blake Coleman AND another player in that salary range... I like Calgary's roster, too, and I'd be surprised if they didn't make the playoffs. I don't think Calgary getting both Hyman and Coleman is a realistic scenario...Hyman is better than Coleman and Lucic for sure but they all bring different skills...Hyman is 1st or 2nd line scoring and Coleman and Lucic are 3rd line...I think Sutter and Treliving want to keep Lucic for how he is a good influence on developing younger players too...even if the Lucic trade did not happen Calgary is stuck with Neal and can't get both Hyman and Coleman anyways... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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