Gotta love Kronwall!

[yave1964]

I can see the Flyers fans crying like babies already, but while that is the most viscious hit of the year it was clean. Voracek was moving up ice lolligagging with his head down admiring how pretty the puck looked on his stick. Kronwall lead with his body, solid but brutal hockey the way Vlady used to play.

[Digityman]

I can see the Flyers fans crying like babies already, but while that is the most viscious hit of the year it was clean. Voracek was moving up ice lolligagging with his head down admiring how pretty the puck looked on his stick. Kronwall lead with his body, solid but brutal hockey the way Vlady used to play.

Haha. Christ

I agree that the hit was within the rules but it could end a player's career.

It looked high but I need to see slow-mo

[hf101]

[yave1964]

Thanks for putting that up so quick. Voracek is responsible for the hit, he just got lazy.

[flyerrod]

No crying when he gets his yave....he should have not been able to get on the ice after that without having to drop the gloves....oh that's right....he is a bigger P U S S Y than Kasparitus ever was. Kronwall hits with his *** low like he normally does and that is a great hit. Instead, he stands up and insures he gets the head.....F U C K Kronwall...

[JackStraw]

I can see the Flyers fans crying like babies already, but while that is the most viscious hit of the year it was clean. Voracek was moving up ice lolligagging with his head down admiring how pretty the puck looked on his stick. Kronwall lead with his body, solid but brutal hockey the way Vlady used to play.

I would take Kronwall on my team any day. ANY day.

[yave1964]

I would take Kronwall on my team any day. ANY day.

You cant have him, he is ours, lol

[SpikeDDS]

I have a hard time saying that Kronwall should be suspended for this hit, but I predict that he WILL receive a suspension. I don't think it will be a long one, but it is coming, but I can't say that I can blame him for the hit. The rule states that if the primary point of contact is the head-even if it is unintentional--it is an illegal hit.

But I say this with some objection! Voracek HAS to take some of the responsibility for putting himself in that position, and the league needs to address this issue. It's not like Kronner hit him from his blind side. If it wasn't for the guy's head being down, the primary point of contact would have been the logo on the front of the sweater! It was a head-on collision. Kronner didn't charge him, and he didn't purposefully raise the shoulder to hit the guy's head. It was already down there. It's hard for me to say to the players that they can't hit a guy from the front who has the puck with his head down! Otherwise, you could just leave your head down all the time, and then no one will be able to hit you from the front, and I'm sorry, but that's not hockey!

I actually like the no-call on the ice by the officials, honoring the fact that other than the hit to the head--which is really more Voracek's fault for having his head down than Kronwall's--this was a great hit that any team would want their players to inflict. But Toronto is gonna sit him out for sure, because the rule says they gotta do that. Even though it's not Kronner's fault, it is his responsibility according to the rules.

When, if ever, is a player responsible for having his head down?

[SpikeDDS]

No crying when he gets his yave....he should have not been able to get on the ice after that without having to drop the gloves....oh that's right....he is a bigger P U S S Y than Kasparitus ever was. Kronwall hits with his *** low like he normally does and that is a great hit. Instead, he stands up and insures he gets the head.....F U C K Kronwall...

Not so fast! Most of the times when there's a bad hit, it's often because the hitting player alters their body so as to ensure contact is made, such as when a player being hit tries to evade the hit and the hitter alters their position in order to get solid contact or else they raise their shoulder up to ensure contact with the head. This did NOT happen here. You're saying that it's BAD that someone hits someone else while basically standing upright even without lunging with the shoulder or purposefully sticking your butt out to clip a player. If you can't hit another player while standing upright, how exactly CAN you hit someone? You're implying that standing upright is altering body position, and that's hogwash!

You'll note in my earlier post that I acknowledge that Kronwall is likely going to be suspended for the hit. Technically, it is against the rules as they are written. But this isn't a dirty hit like so many others have been. It was hard. He did hit him primarily in the head, but it was more coincidental than malicious. HIS HEAD WAS DOWN, and hitting him from the front, the only way you could hit him was to hit the head first. I'm not buying that leading with the butt would have missed the head. Besides, if he did as you suggested, and Voracek tried to evade right before the hit, you'd be complaining that he was sticking hit butt out to contact the legs, which is just as dangerous, and I'd have to agree with you. THAT would LOOK more intentional than this hit looks.

You're really gonna say this hit was malicious? Hard, yep. Illegal? I guess so. Malicious? No.

[terp]

You have to be dumber than Mickey Redmond if, after all the press about concussions in the NHL this season, you still don't understand the headshot rules. This goes for fans and players. The rules changed so that the fans would actually get to see the best players more often instead of call ups from the AHL (because a bunch of front line players are on IR worrying about their careers being over).

Kronwall was stupid to do it and celebrating that hit is even dumber. He's going to be out of the line up when the Wings can least afford it and he's going to have a "history" to lengthen the suspension for his next infraction. Really smart. He delivered an illegal hit, demonstrated a complete lack of respect for another player and afterwards, wouldn't drop the gloves. All in all, a really proud moment for the Organization.

[flyerrod]

Not so fast! Most of the times when there's a bad hit, it's often because the hitting player alters their body so as to ensure contact is made, such as when a player being hit tries to evade the hit and the hitter alters their position in order to get solid contact or else they raise their shoulder up to ensure contact with the head. This did NOT happen here. You're saying that it's BAD that someone hits someone else while basically standing upright even without lunging with the shoulder or purposefully sticking your butt out to clip a player. If you can't hit another player while standing upright, how exactly CAN you hit someone? You're implying that standing upright is altering body position, and that's hogwash!

You'll note in my earlier post that I acknowledge that Kronwall is likely going to be suspended for the hit. Technically, it is against the rules as they are written. But this isn't a dirty hit like so many others have been. It was hard. He did hit him primarily in the head, but it was more coincidental than malicious. HIS HEAD WAS DOWN, and hitting him from the front, the only way you could hit him was to hit the head first. I'm not buying that leading with the butt would have missed the head. Besides, if he did as you suggested, and Voracek tried to evade right before the hit, you'd be complaining that he was sticking hit butt out to contact the legs, which is just as dangerous, and I'd have to agree with you. THAT would LOOK more intentional than this hit looks.

You're really gonna say this hit was malicious? Hard, yep. Illegal? I guess so. Malicious? No.

As I said, Kronwall's normal MO is hit with his A $ $ first making contact to hips/lower torso. He INTENTIONALLY stayed upright and TARGETED Jake's head with his shoulder. INTENTIONAL. How can you argue that when you look at his last 1000 hits? Don't worry, your Red Wing buddy in charge will let him slide. He will get at worst a warning, which after watching some of the stuff that Flyers have been suspended for is laughable....

[hf101]

@flyerrod

He INTENTIONALLY stayed upright and TARGETED Jake's head with his shoulder. INTENTIONAL.

Agree. If you slow the video down, you can see Jake playing the puck all the way, not really noticing Kronwall. At the same time Kronwall makes no attempt to get the puck, instead waits for Vorchek and then slides into him with a deliberate high shoulder, targeting the head. Kronwall should get suspended.

[xganarchy]

Not so fast! Most of the times when there's a bad hit, it's often because the hitting player alters their body so as to ensure contact is made, such as when a player being hit tries to evade the hit and the hitter alters their position in order to get solid contact or else they raise their shoulder up to ensure contact with the head. This did NOT happen here. You're saying that it's BAD that someone hits someone else while basically standing upright even without lunging with the shoulder or purposefully sticking your butt out to clip a player. If you can't hit another player while standing upright, how exactly CAN you hit someone? You're implying that standing upright is altering body position, and that's hogwash!

You'll note in my earlier post that I acknowledge that Kronwall is likely going to be suspended for the hit. Technically, it is against the rules as they are written. But this isn't a dirty hit like so many others have been. It was hard. He did hit him primarily in the head, but it was more coincidental than malicious. HIS HEAD WAS DOWN, and hitting him from the front, the only way you could hit him was to hit the head first. I'm not buying that leading with the butt would have missed the head. Besides, if he did as you suggested, and Voracek tried to evade right before the hit, you'd be complaining that he was sticking hit butt out to contact the legs, which is just as dangerous, and I'd have to agree with you. THAT would LOOK more intentional than this hit looks.

You're really gonna say this hit was malicious? Hard, yep. Illegal? I guess so. Malicious? No.

First off, let me commend you for being gracious about the incident unlike that "yave" character, celebrating the injury.

Secondly, I (and most Flyers fans) agree that in the "old" NHL, that was a perfectly legal hit. Players SHOULD be aware of their surroundings and Voracek did skate with his head down. BUT....the main problem I have is the NEW rules, as you stated, deem that an illegal hit in the fact that Kronwall hit a "vulnerable" player in the head. I would expect a penalty, HOPEFULLY a suspension (as was the case in many similar hits) but I doubt we'll see either.

Forgive my frustration, but Flyers fans had to live through losing their franchise player due to repeated concussions (Lindros, of course) and back then everyone just laughed and told Lindros he was silly for skating with his head down. Now, years later, the NHL decides they better start protecting the Crosby's of the league and change the rules to make the hard hitters of the league almost obsolete. Now the Flyers have to deal with multiple concussions and no repurcussions to the opposing teams.

[SpikeDDS]

I just read that the league has decided that they are NOT going to review this hit. I am actually disappointed in the league's decision. That's not to say that I think Kronwall should be suspended. What I AM saying is that this hit was as borderline regarding the nature of the hit versus the responsibility of players to not leave themselves vulnerable to hits. As I said previously, if the league had chosen to review this hit and suspended Kronwall for a game (maybe 2) for it, I wouldn't like it, I wouldn't agree with it, but I could understand it and accept it.

In my opinion, this is EXACTLY the kind of hit that the league NEEDS to rule on to clarify HOW their rules are to be enforced. By the letter of the law, this hit MIGHT meet the requirements for "targeting the head." But on the other side of that, if they do suspend for it, that means that if a player's head is down with the puck, you can't hit them except from the side on the body or from behind (so long as they are not near and facing the boards), so everybody should just skate with their heads down to prevent anyone from being able to legally hit them. That is NOT good for the game.

If you play any contact sport carelessly, you're gonna get hurt. Play baseball without a helmet. Football without pads or a helmet. See what happens. Playing hockey with your head down is stupid! Voracek was careless! To put all the blame on Kronwall for that hit is ridiculous, especially as compared with just about any hit on the NHL's video review library.

The NHL owes it to the fans, the players and the coaches to review this hit, make a ruling on the legality of it, and then EXPLAIN the reasons that led them to make the ruling the way they did. The coaches and players have the right to know when they are accountable for what. I was under the impression that Shanahan (Dept of Player Safety) was going to evaluate and rule on both illegal AND legal controversial hits in order to be accountable to the fans for their decision-making. I applauded the league for taking that step, because it is good for the game. To NOT rule on this hit is escapist, and it is not in the best interests of the hockey.

I will give Flyers fans credit for this: This DOES smell of favoritism toward the Red Wings in this case. I think they have a legitimate beef in that respect.

[xganarchy]

If you play any contact sport carelessly, you're gonna get hurt. Play baseball without a helmet. Football without pads or a helmet. See what happens. Playing hockey with your head down is stupid! Voracek was careless! To put all the blame on Kronwall for that hit is ridiculous, especially as compared with just about any hit on the NHL's video review library.

I'm glad that you admit you would like for it to have been reviewed/explained, but I think your comparisons are way off. It's not like Voracek decided to not wear a helmet. He looked up, Kronwall backed off like he was going to skate backwards/follow the play, then when Voracek looked back down Kronwall took the opportunity to throw the hit. A "good" play on his part but I think it's more comparable to the NFL trying to protect a vulnerable QB or WR.

Would fans look down on a WR who decided to bail out of a catch b/c a defender was coming? No, they expect his primary focus to be on the ball and to sacrifice his body for the catch. I know it's a bit different, but the NHL has come out to say they're going to crack down on headshots. This instance proved they are not, in the case you wear a Red Wings uniform. They've set the precedent that they're going to put the responsibilty on the "checker" to know when to "hold up" and not lay out an opposing player when he's vulnerable. Yet Kronwall has gotten away with it several times this season (as well as others). It just doesn't seem consistent to me.

[yave1964]

Kronwall knows the rules, broke no rules plays in the rules. Good clean hit, odviously the league agrees. Scott Stevens, Pronger, Kronwall, Niedermayer and Konstantinov have always been my favorite type of players, they live on the edge and you damn well better keep your head up and if you dont it is your own fault. I hope Voracek is okay, but he had his chin on his chest admiring how pretty the puck looked on his stick and has nobody but himself to blame. Looks like the league agrees. Its hockey guys, not t-ball.

[SpikeDDS]

I'm glad that you admit you would like for it to have been reviewed/explained, but I think your comparisons are way off. It's not like Voracek decided to not wear a helmet. He looked up, Kronwall backed off like he was going to skate backwards/follow the play, then when Voracek looked back down Kronwall took the opportunity to throw the hit. A "good" play on his part but I think it's more comparable to the NFL trying to protect a vulnerable QB or WR.

Would fans look down on a WR who decided to bail out of a catch b/c a defender was coming? No, they expect his primary focus to be on the ball and to sacrifice his body for the catch. I know it's a bit different, but the NHL has come out to say they're going to crack down on headshots. This instance proved they are not, in the case you wear a Red Wings uniform. They've set the precedent that they're going to put the responsibilty on the "checker" to know when to "hold up" and not lay out an opposing player when he's vulnerable. Yet Kronwall has gotten away with it several times this season (as well as others). It just doesn't seem consistent to me.

I agree your comparison is better. I was in between patients and didn't have time to think real deeply about it.

But consider this: I want you to show me one--ANY--hit that has received discipline from the league where:

a. the hit technique was as clean as Kronwall's i.e. no elbows, no leaving the feet, no lunging with the shoulder to ensure head contact (he was vertical on this hit and his shoulder was not ahead of the rest of his body), etc.

b. where the boards are not involved

c. where the hit is FROM DIRECTLY AHEAD of the skater with the puck, not from the blind side, not with the player's head turned away

d. where the player being hit actually HAS the puck at his feet

e. and where the hit is solid into the body as compared with a clip of a knee or hitting a player from the side in the head ala Savard

Show me ONE like this that got suspended. You'll be searching for a while, because all the other ones I've seen are explained very well by Shanahan and there are issues with one of the above. Kronwall hits hard and uses excellent technique doing so. Show me someone else who does that and gets suspended while Kronner "gets away with it."

And THEN, I want you to show me the hit(s) that you feel Kronwall has deserved suspension for which Kronwall has "gotten away with it" as you put it. Show the video, and make your case.

Remember that I have OPENLY stated that I think this hit should be reviewed, and the reason for the head being the primary area of contact not applying as the primary driving force of the ruling should be CLEARLY stated. So you CAN'T use this one, because I'm saying you've got enough of a reason to warrant a review here. But show me another one that does and explain your case. I'll respond cordially.

[Phillygrump]

@yave1964

Dirty hit by a consistently dirty player who's protected by Shanny.

Don't worry, someday someone is going to cheap shot him and he'll be done. Once his safety net turns into Campbell and he's gone Kronwall will be suspended all the time and he can throw those checks in the KHL where no one will fight him while he turtles like a *****.

[yave1964]

@yave1964

Dirty hit by a consistently dirty player who's protected by Shanny.

Don't worry, someday someone is going to cheap shot him and he'll be done. Once his safety net turns into Campbell and he's gone Kronwall will be suspended all the time and he can throw those checks in the KHL where no one will fight him while he turtles like a *****.

Kronwall has 14 goals, is the best hitter in the game today, is a solid responsible d-man in his own zone. He is not fast, it is about brains, positioning and timing with him. Any team would be greatly improved to have him on their blue line, but lucky for us Holland tied him up for a long time. It is hard for me to understand the Bully fans crying about cheap shots when the hit while brutal was clean and within the rules. Wish you got the subtle and not so subtle nuances of the game, maybe some day.

[flyerrod]

Kronwall has 14 goals, is the best hitter in the game today, is a solid responsible d-man in his own zone. He is not fast, it is about brains, positioning and timing with him. Any team would be greatly improved to have him on their blue line, but lucky for us Holland tied him up for a long time. It is hard for me to understand the Bully fans crying about cheap shots when the hit while brutal was clean and within the rules. Wish you got the subtle and not so subtle nuances of the game, maybe some day.

Well I wish Kronwall had enough courage to answer for his "good and clean" hits.........oh sorry, he is too busy shopping aisle 11 in walmart buying vaginal supplies.......

[SpikeDDS]

Well I wish Kronwall had enough courage to answer for his "good and clean" hits.........oh sorry, he is too busy shopping aisle 11 in walmart buying vaginal supplies.......

Well, I suppose that means he's "scoring" more than you are taking care of his gals like that! ;-P

BTW, on this we agree: I thought Kronwall was cowardly when, after delivering the hit on Kessler, and after Kessler almost miraculously got back up after the hit and challenged Nick to drop 'em, that Kronner didn't oblige him. If you hit someone like that, and they take the hit and challenge you to finish what you started, to not oblige that request is not honorable. That is a fair criticism of Kronwall. He needs to man up, particularly if the "victim" is man enough. I was disappointed in him for that.