Digityman

Agree he will probably be the best player in the trade. But he can be traded for multiple players and/or picks. So assuming the value is fair on both sides..... just spit-balling here: Giroux for a top 6 shoot first winger and 2 firsts. While one player doesn't equal Giroux this year. In 3 years, when the Flyers hopefully have a team that can make the playoffs, those 2 firsts and possibly that winger are out producing a 33 year old Giroux. Honestly I'm not deadset that Giroux needs to be traded. I'm just exploring the options and I think Fletch needs to look at everyone.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. There is no reason for Weiss, Weal, AMAC to be on the ice. They would have to go 27-10-5 to have a 50% chance of making it into the playoffs. I know (and don't want them to) they won't purposefully tank (cough cough Pens) so why not bring up some players to really evaluate talent.

This is very true. But does replacing Jake really shake up the core enough to really push this team in a new direction? Is having Giroux's production this year, 2019/20 or even 20/21 really going to push this team to the next level - meaning winning at least 1 round in the playoffs without significant changes elsewhere? There is no doubt that Giroux makes everyone on the ice better and that he is a top 10 player over his career. I'm just not sure that his value (both to the team and to other teams) will ever be higher than it is now. And if that's the case, the decision needs to be made: Can what would come back in a trade for Giroux be worth more than what Giroux can produce in say 2 years because that's about the time-frame in my mind.

@mojo1917 I agree and believe that he has (had?) the skills to be a very effective leader. It's sad really to see his time wasted as his numbers prove he was a top 10 guy in the NHL. Now he's climbing in years and I fear each year moving forward, he'll become less and less able to do those things you describe above. I guess the question is now the time to move the team in a different direction? And if it is, there are two options. Giroux steps down as the C or Giroux is traded and a new leader hand picked. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I trust Flyers management to make that selection properly.

Well isn't that telling right there.

The question is where is the rot? I'm not going to pretend to know where the rot is or which players need to be removed but I'll spit ball a bit and welcome any opinions. If I'm remembering right, the slow starts and not playing 60 minutes started when Richards/Carter where the center pieces of this team. In fact, Richards becomes the captain in the 2008 season until 2011. Pronger becomes captain for 2 years and then Giroux in 2013. So who else came into the fray during this time? Giroux - 2009 (captian 2013) Simmonds - 2011 Voracek - 2013 Couturier - 2011 JVR - (2009-2012; 2018) Interesting isn't it? The 4/5 most talked about players all came in around the same time. And if I am remembering correctly, there was some noise around Pronger having his issues with Giroux and his constancy (here and here). Then Pronger has his career ending injury and Giroux becomes captain. Grioux is now captain of the ship surrounded by the guys above with only a few vets coming and going to help guide them. In fact I remember discussing on whether Giroux should have been named captain. He was the best player on the ice but that doesn't make you an effective leader. I even remember people calling for Kimmo to be the captain during those rough couple years. So it's been talked about for years. Is Giroux the correct captian of this team. Far and away he is the best player but the question is should he be captain? As long as he's been captain, who have been the "vets" brought in to help? Not an all inclusive list but best of my memory: Mark Streit, Jagr (best season?), Hartnell, Kimmo, Briere, Lappy I think this is where Fletch needs to spend a lot of time. Talking to the coaches (Lappy has both player and coach insight), current players and even reach out to past players. Really dig deep to see if there is a issue in the locker room or with particular players. Specifically, is this team led by a leader - a true leader - or just the most skilled player. That's all I got for now....need to do the work they pay me for now...

I'd like to say that other GM's would value Voracek higher than we do but I can't say for sure. While it's been noted in the thread above how we might over-value some of the players, we definitely under-value as well. Only 10 months ago, Jake was 7th in the league for % of a team's offense. Above MacKinnon, Kucherov, Ovechkin and tied with Malkin. Then looking at points, since 2015 he's played 276 games and has 235 points. So while I don't think Jake brings back super high value, I also don't think the Flyers will have to take trash for him. JVR is in the same boat. On the right team, with the right line-mates they can be successful. (JVR in Toronto for example) The ultimate goal of moving these guys is to shake up the core and if they can fetch something decent in return it's a bonus.

I'd do that deal

I've wanted Ghost to be tried as a winger (think TK) for a long time now. And I agree that he's not a top pair defensemen but that doesn't mean they should trade him. Just because he's being played out of position isn't his fault. He's perfectly fine on a 2nd pair with a stay at home guy. Think him and Morin or similar. He would excel in that setup. Defense is a problem but we all knew it would be. It's growing pains and the sub-par play of Ghost and Prov. That wasn't planned for but honestly should have been expected. The defense will be figured out with age, nhl starts and the filtering in of others waiting in the wings. However, the change in defense doesn't solve for the problem of constant slow starts, lack of 60 minute efforts and digging themselves a hole in the beginning of the season over and over again. That is rot. Rot at the core of the machine. No amount of changing dmen will fix the rot. Fletch has to dig deep and cut it out from the inside. Otherwise, nothing will change. There are great pieces to this team both currently on the team and working their way up. The trade deadline and this summer is when it's time to cut out the rot and use the assets that Hexy saved up to put a better product on the ice come September 2019. And if Fletch can't put a better product on the ice then at least he'll put a different product on the ice cause doing the same thing year after year is growing old and tiresome. Just to reiderate: Voracek, JVR, Simmonds, Couturier, Giroux - 3 of them need to go before puck drop 2019. I know my top 3.

Voracek, JVR, Simmonds, Couturier, Giroux Before the start of the 2019-2020 season, I think they have to move 3 of the 5 to make any significant difference on this team . Ideally, it would be 3 with Couturier and Giroux the last ones standing. And even then, both need to be advised that if the same **** continues they are on a short leash. This should provide a significant shake-up to the core.

I stand corrected if that's the case. Could have sworn it was his head but thankfully I was wrong

Patrick's head issues really are starting to worry me

If Hak were still coaching, this would still be possible. Even still, I wouldn't say it's impossible given the"make the playoffs" montra.

This. What's the point of doing all this? It makes no sense.

These lines make no sense. The one thing I really want from the next (Q) coach is consistency with lines. Let them stay together. Let them build chemistry. Shuffling the lines all the time drives me mad.