if kronwall hit was clean....

[vonginous]

Why would it not be on the nhl hits of the week. I just watched them and the kronwall hit was ten times better than the rest combined (if it was clean) and it wasn't even in the top ten. Did they just forget it happened? If it was a dirty hit, and they dis not want to put it in, that would make sence. I dont know. Just asking.

[Irishjim]

ssssssssssssssssssshhhhhh. if we don't talk about it, it never happened. same with the Malkin (If it was a flyer he would have been suspended 10 games ) hit on boychuck

[aziz]

the league can't suspend kronwall, but they can't advertise the fact they can't suspend kronwall.

basically:

[sarsippius]

Well there's clean, dirty, and legal. Dirty and legal are not mutually exclusive terms within the present context.....A dirty hit can be legal, and apparently that's what knocked Jake into next week.

[radoran]

Let's go with the theory that it wasn't a clean hit for a moment.

There was no penalty.

There was no suspension.

The player who took the hit said he thought it was a good hit.

The team's best player (Giroux) said he thought it was a good hit.

So if we go with the theory that it wasn't a clean hit just what can be done about it?

Nothing.

And, relevant to the thread, I haven't seen a lot of angles on the hit in question so it may be that nhl.com's video editors thought they had better video of other hits.

[vonginous]

Let's go with the theory that it wasn't a clean hit for a moment.

There was no penalty.

There was no suspension.

The player who took the hit said he thought it was a good hit.

The team's best player (Giroux) said he thought it was a good hit.

So if we go with the theory that it wasn't a clean hit just what can be done about it?

Nothing.

And, relevant to the thread, I haven't seen a lot of angles on the hit in question so it may be that nhl.com's video editors thought they had better video of other hits.

No they had plenty of angles. I just dont get why it would not be in the top ten.

[Vanflyer]

@Rodoran

"Let's go with the theory that it wasn't a clean hit for a moment.

There was no penalty.

There was no suspension.

The player who took the hit said he thought it was a good hit.

The team's best player (Giroux) said he thought it was a good hit.

So if we go with the theory that it wasn't a clean hit just what can be done about it?

Nothing."

I could not have said it better myself. My addendum would be that every Flyer in the dressing room is saying "come the playoffs- if a guy is coming up the wall with his head down and just touching the puck, "kornwall" him".

And that is the pisser. All the Flyer players (and I) think it was a clean hit and Jake was foolish in his feet. But now the precedence is set and when a Flyer clocks anyone coming up the wing with their head down, shame on the league if they call anything. And THAT is what sucks. Take the instigator rule out and let those kind of hits continue.

Christ- Lindros did that stuff 10 x a day and 2 times on Sunday his first five years.

[xganarchy]

i know the pro-kronwall side keeps quoting how "even Voracek called it clean", but i really don't think that's relevant. How many players in the league want to be known as a whiner about a "dirty" hit? Shanahan and the NHL already made their opinion known so what good would it do even if they DID think it was dirty? Regardless it's over with so it makes no difference talking about it now.

[orange_crush]

Why would it not be on the nhl hits of the week. I just watched them and the kronwall hit was ten times better than the rest combined (if it was clean) and it wasn't even in the top ten. Did they just forget it happened? If it was a dirty hit, and they dis not want to put it in, that would make sence. I dont know. Just asking.

Kronwall is a spineless punk, he will get his one day..

[Vanflyer]

@vonginous

"Kronwall is a spineless punk, he will get his one day.."

I will tell you what- my playing days only made it to Div 1 NCAA- yet when to a man comes out and says it was a "clean" hit (which it was by the rules), they put a marker on Kornwalls head. Unfortunately, the Flyers will not play the Wings again this year unless its in the SCF. But make no doubt about it that every guy in the Flyers dressing room (and other teams dressing room) have "marked" him. This is twice now (Briere and Jake) in one season.

The only problem is he is a VERY fluid skater, so even on the forecheck its hard to get him. But you mark my words, SOMEBODY will gun for him- just like he guns for everyone.

Does this conversation ring a bell? If not, just think Lindros- who did much worse within the confines of the rules and EVERYONE in the league started gunning for him. Kornwall is lucky he made it to 31 in this league and if ANY team that plays the Wings has any balls, they will run him like he runs his opposition players. Crowe, Havlat, Heatley, Briere, Voracek, kesler- those are all some really good hockey players that he tried to end the careers of.

I nearly puked yesterday watching Shanny explain the league position his kind of hits at the GM summit(and doubly so when I found out that he mentioned Rob Blake on Kornballs hits).

[orange_crush]

@vonginous

"Kronwall is a spineless punk, he will get his one day.."

I will tell you what- my playing days only made it to Div 1 NCAA- yet when to a man comes out and says it was a "clean" hit (which it was by the rules), they put a marker on Kornwalls head. Unfortunately, the Flyers will not play the Wings again this year unless its in the SCF. But make no doubt about it that every guy in the Flyers dressing room (and other teams dressing room) have "marked" him. This is twice now (Briere and Jake) in one season.

The only problem is he is a VERY fluid skater, so even on the forecheck its hard to get him. But you mark my words, SOMEBODY will gun for him- just like he guns for everyone.

Does this conversation ring a bell? If not, just think Lindros- who did much worse within the confines of the rules and EVERYONE in the league started gunning for him. Kornwall is lucky he made it to 31 in this league and if ANY team that plays the Wings has any balls, they will run him like he runs his opposition players. Crowe, Havlat, Heatley, Briere, Voracek, kesler- those are all some really good hockey players that he tried to end the careers of.

I nearly puked yesterday watching Shanny explain the league position his kind of hits at the GM summit(and doubly so when I found out that he mentioned Rob Blake on Kornballs hits).

To me it doesn't matter if it was "technically" clean or not, what about respect for other players? I know this is pro hockey, but what was the purpose of that hit and all these other jacked up hits this guy throws?

all he's doing is potentially injuring players and shorting there careers and for what? nothing

[Vanflyer]

@orange_crush

Totally agree. Take the instigator rule out and this **** will stop or at a minimum be controlled. He plays within the rules, just like Lindros did, but he is the biggest p u s s y because he INTENDS to injure AND NEVER answers the bell when called. At least Lindros was a man and would man up on his hits and fight.

Jakub is not small- and next year you mark my words he will gun for Kornball. If it was me and I saw him on the ice, I would do a soft dump in and then just GO and would not care if he touched the puck or not- I would crush him. Give me the 3 games- since Shanny thinks that Kornballs constant head hunting is fine.

I loved Shanny as a player, but what a hypocrite he is now. Let him lace them up again and have Kornwall Kornball him and see what he thinks then!

[orange_crush]

@orange_crush

Totally agree. Take the instigator rule out and this **** will stop or at a minimum be controlled. He plays within the rules, just like Lindros did, but he is the biggest p u s s y because he INTENDS to injure AND NEVER answers the bell when called. At least Lindros was a man and would man up on his hits and fight.

Jakub is not small- and next year you mark my words he will gun for Kornball. If it was me and I saw him on the ice, I would do a soft dump in and then just GO and would not care if he touched the puck or not- I would crush him. Give me the 3 games- since Shanny thinks that Kornballs constant head hunting is fine.

I loved Shanny as a player, but what a hypocrite he is now. Let him lace them up again and have Kornwall Kornball him and see what he thinks then!

totally agree, Shanny was a helluva a hockey player, it's very disappointing the way he's running the show..speaking of Lindros he was my favorite player of all time and it's stupid head shots like this that ended his career early also.. why doesn't the NHL see this?

imagine if the NHL protected Lindros a little bit and he played all those games/years he missed..Flyers would have probably had at least one cup and definantly HOF'er

[Phillygrump]

Shanny's a hypocrite. Kronwall is dirty. Shanny protects Kronwall. Soon someone will gun for Kronwall and take him out. I will delight in it when it happens.

I would love very much if it ends up being Brayden Schenn who takes him out.

[Vanflyer]

@Phillygrump

I was pretty drunk the other night when I when on my rants. I am on a fence. The one side is take the mofo out. The other side is get the effing league to be consistent. That is what I am more angered about.

If we really think about it, lets go back to Lindros. He was ALWAYS a beast and MOSTLY played withing the confines of the rules. Lets go to Hatcher. Both those guys were nasty on skates and had ZERO qualms about laying somebody out. Each were 6'3 / 240 + pounds.

Lindros got his because either he never listened to his coaches or was not coached well. The only think the league did about that sh it was to remove the clutch and grab and free up the smaller players.

So, now we have Krownwall. I good fluid skating defensemen that likes to gun for players for a big takeout. Is it any different than the Hatcher / Lindros / Stevens era? I have to say no. What IS different is the instigator rule. That does not mean the goon rule to me, it means the on ice police rule. Hatcher, Lindros and Stevens would always answer the bell regarding their hits. Kornwall, similar to Kasparitis, Tucker, and a few others never did.

Take the instigator rule out and let Kornwall play his game. I personally don't want to see a career ending injury as he is a pretty good hockey players- that just happens to head hunt. Let him hunt and let the current guys (jakub included) take him out with an honest mans game to drop the gloves.

If that does not happen and he continues his intentions, then run him within the confines of the rules just like he does.

[aziz]

What IS different is the instigator rule.

ugh.

we're back to a 2 minute minor penalty changing the world.

no offense, VF, but come on.

btw, the instigator rule was added in 1992, so it was in effect for the entirety of lindros and hatcher's careers, and more than half of stevens'.

[Vanflyer]

@aziz-

No offense taken. I am getting senile (1992, really?).

Ok, so just run him like I originally said? Its hard for me- he hunts and I guess reciprocating is fine.

Like I stated earlier I (big EI) would run him. But the rules are really the bigger issue. You will agree that Lindros, Hatcher, Stevens and (sometimes) Lemieux played within the rules and just POUNDED guys.

It sold LOTS of tix. Now, everyone is "concussion this / that" and its a problem for players like him.

Guys like @JackStraw love him as a player (if he played for the Flyers). But he doesn't. Just like Lucic doesn't, etc. But when I can post 6 hits in 3 years where he was trying to knock guys out, then either the league or players need to control it.

[aziz]

Ok, so just run him like I originally said? Its hard for me- he hunts and I guess reciprocating is fine.

well, or fight him, if the players think that would change anything. get in his face right after the hit, push and shove and finally drop the gloves, and 9 times out of 10, there'll be no instigator penalty. we see that all the time. if the "right" player to fight the guy isn't on the ice, then go at him a shift or two later. sure, instigator there, but so what? if it'll keep the rest of the roster safe, what's the big deal about an extra 2 minutes?

the truth is that fighting him, at least by this rediculous "code" people talk about these days, isn't gonna do anything. as soon as the fight gets one-sided, i.e., once kronwall starts absorbing some real punishment, the linesmen step in or the agressor backs off. it might've worked back in the day, because players didn't give a damn about each other and would pound on unconcious players' faces, would look to do real damage, if they were angry enough. if a real "message" had to be sent. guy might think twice about something if he knew he was going to be sent to the hospital afterward. today, a fight lasts until one of the guys wants to stop. and then they break apart, congratulate each other, and sit in the box for a few minutes like the good gentlemen they are. the instigator has nothing to do with it.

as for how to stop kronwall....honestly, you don't. you make sure all your right wingers know he is out there, and tell them to make no risky plays inside their own blueline. hit him as hard as you can when you can, but beyond that, it is all about being careful. because he is a seriously dangerous player, and for good or ill, the league has decided they are ok with that.

[Vanflyer]

@aziz-

I agreed with most of what you stated, once again. However, I don't want a gun for hired to go after him. I want an in action player. Kesler has the biggest balls because he took that enormous hit and got up about 10 seconds later and went gunning for Kornwall. Back in the day, a Lindros, Hatcher, Stevens would have answered the call. Kessler and Kornwall are nearly identical in size. Kornwall was scared **** l e s s.

The question is, what happens when Kornwall finally ends somebody's career- which his planned hits are intended to do?? And we come right back to the league. Everyone always pissed about ovie leaving his feet (rightfully) and he was suspended and has calmed down his game. Yet that p u s s y in motor down does not even get a phone call from the office.

I respect your opinion and know you were / are a goalie when you played. It does not have much relevance to this discussion as Hitchcock would say. For me personally and allot of the guys I played with, we would not end his career, but make no doubt in the right situation we would gun for him.

[terp]

@Vanflyer

I think aziz is right: in a sense, there isn't anything the players can do about it, especially if the league condones it. But that won't stop them from trying!! By that I mean we know Kronwall doesn't fight and we figure he won't stop trying to do what he does best (ambush right wingers); he probably can't be intimidated. But players probably don't worry about that directly. They control what they can control. So they add a little extra when they load up to hit him or hit him a little later than they would hit someone else or give it to him worse in the scrum when the see it is him they have ahold of. When you multiply this by the growing number of players who have a score to settle with him, it adds up. Kronwall pays a price in the form of the extra energy he spends looking after his own skin and the extra shots he inevitably takes.

[Vanflyer]

@terp

Your points are valid- doesn't mean it doesn't still irk me. Look at the stuff Kunitz pulled tonight (another borderline player). And then to boot, the NBC announcers had the audacity to say that Cooke should be a candidate for the Masterson trophy (because he cleaned up his act).

[Phillygrump]

@terp

Your points are valid- doesn't mean it doesn't still irk me. Look at the stuff Kunitz pulled tonight (another borderline player). And then to boot, the NBC announcers had the audacity to say that Cooke should be a candidate for the Masterson trophy (because he cleaned up his act).

I almost fell over when I heard them say that about Cooke. Unreal.

[aziz]

And then to boot, the NBC announcers had the audacity to say that Cooke should be a candidate for the Masterson trophy (because he cleaned up his act).

they said he was the penguin's beat staff's canidate for the masterson. each team's aligned journalists nominate a guy, then all the writers vote on them from there. apparently, the flyers' guys are going with jagr...and to be honest, matt cooke taking all of 30 PIMs this season strikes me as more deserving than a guy whose only real accomplishment has been to continue to play well. not that cooke should get it either.

anyway, they weren't saying he was their choice, only that he was the pengiuns' writers' choice.

[TedZep]

Cooke should be a candidate for the Masterson trophy (because he cleaned up his act).

And OJ Simpson should be given the Humanitarian of the Year Award because he stopped killing people.

[Vanflyer]

@aziz-

Thanks for clarifying that. I heard them say he was being nominated by the penquins and then I heard masterson. I thought they were going to say an in team award (like the Pelle Lindbergh or Yanick Dupre or even Gene Hart awards that the Flyers give out).

Not withstanding that, I still nearly spit out my coffee when I heard that. I mean the Masterson award is for the player who best exemplifies the qualities of perseverance, sportsmanship, and dedication to ice hockey.

A player coming off of three straight 100+ penalty minute seasons, with suspensions and warnings and uproar around the league and getting his act together to a mere 30pims thus far has no business being associated with exemplifying the qualities of perseverance, sportsmanship and dedication to ice hockey.

Much of the time the award is given to a player coming back from a debilitating injury or illness. Cooke does not fall into that category or the other ones. I know the writers have to nominate someone from that team, but truthfully, Malkin would be the one I would nominate after he missed nearly half of last season. Everybody forgets him. In his 43 games last season he had 15g / 22a / 37p / -4. This year: 41g / 47a / 88p / +15. I know he will be strong runner for both the Hart and Ross trophy, but I could not fathom picking Cooke.