Injury News Grossman, 7-10 Days, Briere, indefinite

[Phillygrump]

Shelley flattening Crosby. I think Pens land would be screaming for retribution too. Any fan of a team would.

And guess who would be screaming the loudest in post game? Crosby. He'd be calling it gutless. This is exactly why I can't stand this guy. He's a phony and a hypocrite. Milbury pegged him dead on. Finally someone had the balls to say something about him instead of Crosby worship. You should see how nuts that made Pittsburgh fans.

[B21]

@B21

Why is Shero calling out Milbury right? Milbury's comments are accurate. You guys don't mind when they are worshipping Crosby 24/7 on NBC but now when someone says something accurate about Crosby the whole city is in an uproar?

Absurd. Like I said before, this is an example of your boy whining after the game and you were saying earlier that he's changed from that. Obviously he hasn't.

Grump:

He was asked and he answered. Period. That's not "whining". The only one whining is your coach...and he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

I don't CARE how often Crosby or any other player on any team is shown on NBC, ESPN or any other channel. Your obsession with who gets the most airtime or who gets the most commercials borders on psychotic.

As for Millbury, he is supposed to be a professional analyst. Not a Don Cherry wannabe. He can criticize all he wants (as he should) but there is a right way and wrong way to do it...and he was out of line. He can say what he wanted to say a lot differently and a lot more appropriately. If he did, I'd simply disagree and be done with it and so would most Pens fans.

Plus, if he does the same interview on a Pittsburgh station, think he makes the same comments? Not a chance. Maybe he's trying to make friends.

[sarsippius]

Grump-

Honestly I thought Milbury's comments were dead on. And now I hear he apologized. Which is not necessarily the same as a retraction

[B21]

@sarsippius

<< What was wrong the Vitale hit on Briere? Nothing per se, it was a clean check. It would also be the (size wise) equivalent of Shelley flattening Crosby. I think Pens land would be screaming for retribution too. Any fan of a team would. >>

I don't have ANY issue with wanting retribution. The Flyers should want it. But people actually having a problem with the hit? "It's legal but..." But what? Sure it would suck if Crosby got leveled with a legal hit. It would suck but it's part of the game...kinda like....the Hedman hit. There certainly was a part of the Penguin fan population that thought Hedman should be suspended. I wasn't one of them.

<< And I don't buy the line of argument that Crosby does not dish out any more cheap stick work than he receives, but I've grown tired of that discussion and I'm sure you have too. Bring on round 1... >>

Grown tired as well but I think we agree on this. Watching all of his NHL career he is often (more than your average player) the target of the after the whistle antics in an effort to get him to retaliate or get him off his game or both (or when the ref is not looking). That's part of the game and always will be. So I don't mind at all when he gives back.

[Phillygrump]

@B21

I'm not even going to read the dribble you spew out in defense of Sid because you're a homer. Milbury said the truth. It was great. You homer Pittsburgh fans don't mind the Crosby worship and then get all upset when someone bucks that opinion.

Crosby skates around throwing dirty little jabs all game and then gets a cheap shot back and acts like its the worst thing that ever happened. Atleast when Malkin gets hit back he just takes it. This is what I'm talking about earlier. He KNOWS he gets all this attention and he uses his attention to chastise others for cheap shots when he is doing the EXACT same thing.

Your golden boy is a punk. The NHL still tries to paint him as a golden boy but other fans and other players know he's a hypocritical phony. You homers in Pittsburgh just can't see it through your yellow specs.

[B21]

@Phillygrump

<< I'm not even going to read the dribble you spew out in defense of Sid because you're a homer. Milbury said the truth. It was great. You homer Pittsburgh fans don't mind the Crosby worship and then get all upset when someone bucks that opinion. >>

Millbury is not the first to accuse Crosby of that. Won't be the last. But the way he said it was out of line. I have no issue with his opinion.

<< Crosby skates around throwing dirty little jabs all game and then gets a cheap shot back and acts like its the worst thing that ever happened. At least when Malkin gets hit back he just takes it. This is what I'm talking about earlier. He KNOWS he gets all this attention and he uses his attention to chastise others for cheap shots when he is doing the EXACT same thing. >>

Really??? If there is ANY Pen who hates getting those shots it's Malkin. That's my biggest issue with him. He (Malkin) doesn't like that kind of stuff at all and too often tries to get back at whoever shotted him right away...many times to the detriment of the play on the ice. Crosby puts up with a lot more than Malkin does...or did before he was sideline this past year.

<< Your golden boy is a punk. The NHL still tries to paint him as a golden boy but other fans and other players know he's a hypocritical phony. You homers in Pittsburgh just can't see it through your yellow specs. >>

Phony...because he answered a question? So using your gorilla rationale, because he's often on the giving end of a "cheap" shot he's not allowed to talk about the ones he's been on the receiving end of? So I guess you have an issue with Briere saying Vitale was trying to hurt him? Talk about dirty players. Back to your rationale, Briere should have "no comment" about the completely legal Vitale hit. But like Briere said, Vitale was "trying to hurt hom". And Crosby is a whining punk?

So either admit Briere is a whiny punk or admit your are a hypocrite when it comes to Crosby. Which is it? You are calling out Crosby for "complaining" about a cheap shot. So call out Briere for complaining about a legal hit.

[Phillygrump]

Look, we'll probably always disagree on Crosby so I'l leave it at that.

Forgive me for being so hard on you though for my absolute distaste for Crosby. Obviously you'll defend him. I don't mean to be a jerk to you because of it. I'm going to stop arguing with you on this topic though since I doubt we'll ever see eye to eye on it.

I can't stand the guy for the reasons I listed. You disagree. Thats cool.

Sorry for bashing you about it. I'm really not a mean guy.

I hope we beat you guys in 4 games though. We need the rest.

[B21]

Look, we'll probably always disagree on Crosby so I'l leave it at that.

Forgive me for being so hard on you though for my absolute distaste for Crosby. Obviously you'll defend him. I don't mean to be a jerk to you because of it. I'm going to stop arguing with you on this topic though since I doubt we'll ever see eye to eye on it.

I can't stand the guy for the reasons I listed. You disagree. Thats cool.

Sorry for bashing you about it. I'm really not a mean guy.

I hope we beat you guys in 4 games though. We need the rest.

LOL. Okay...we can chat about Briere some other time.

[sarsippius]

@B21

I'll take the question...Briere is not

my all time favorite Flyer.

He should have kept his mouth shut when asked about the hit. He was trying to hurt me. Well no **** Sherlock, this isn't the freakin ballet! Just a stupid comment.

However this doesn't change the fact the Crosby is a limp d*ck little wusschop

[aziz]

yeah Aziz, I think Fan4Ever is right. Your timeline is correct - aside from the hyperbole - but it leaves out the first 58 minutes right? So I figure there's more to the story than just the ENer and the ensuing nonsense. Laviolette is a passionate guy but he's not Keenan-crazy. I give him the benefit of the doubt; if he's up on the stanchion calling out the opposing coaches there must be a good reason.

when asked what he problem was, laviolette specifically said it was that the penguins put their 4th line on the ice. he didn't add an "and all that other stuff" to it, which would have been easy enough to do. what benefit of the doubt is there to give when he made his reasoning clear?

to quote:

“Those guys hadn’t been out there in 12 minutes. It’s a gutless move by their coach. It’s gutless.”

you guys want to be all bent about the other stuff, that's fine. i won't disagree with it, though i didn't actually see anything that offended me in any particularly deep way. this discussion has been about the laviolette blow up, and i still can't see a reason for it.

seriously, when was the last NHL coach to lose his **** like that? i assume something has happened since schoenfeld went after koharski, but nothing specific is coming to mind. wtf happened in that game to justify that kind of meltdown?

i don't know. i just don't get it. the next time the flyers are losing by 3 with a minute and a half left, i WANT them to put out the big guys, and if the other coach is stupid enough to put his smallest guy on the ice, i WANT them to run him over. make it clean, but make it big. if that happens and the other team's coach starts acting like an autistic kid who ate too many m&m's, i'm going to call him a laughing stock.

[doom88]

@B21

You're absolutely right about Briere acting like a little *****. One major difference though, is the issue of Briere getting called for his stick infractions (and there are a lot of them). Crosby largely does not. To go further and blame the Flyers for his actions is total garbage. Schenn retaliated against the golden goose, and Couturier against grape ape.

By the way, I could have sworn last game, Bylsma was whining about Philly playing dirty and that not being part of Pitts game. I guess it's okay when Pitt sends messages?

That said, hit on Briere clean, and while classless, Bylsma did nothing wrong by sending a message. It's just frustrating because I know Philly could NEVER get away with that, especially against your scorers.

[aziz]

One major difference though, is the issue of Briere getting called for his stick infractions (and there are a lot of them). Crosby largely does not.

would it suprise you to learn crosby has a higher PIM/game average than briere over his career? his PIM/game rate is more than double giroux's. or that he has more career PIMs than maxime talbot, and in fewer games?

crosby gets the same wide bearth that all (well, most) star players get, it's true, but i think it gets overstated a bit. the idea that he doesn't get called for stuff just isn't true.

[Podein25]

@aziz - huh, go figure.

Still a ****** though, right?

[Podein25]

D O U C H E

[doom88]

would it suprise you to learn crosby has a higher PIM/game average than briere over his career? his PIM/game rate is more than double giroux's. or that he has more career PIMs than maxime talbot, and in fewer games?

crosby gets the same wide bearth that all (well, most) star players get, it's true, but i think it gets overstated a bit. the idea that he doesn't get called for stuff just isn't true.

No surprise, Briere didn't get called for stuff until he got to Philly. Hartnell said something similar earlier on.

Crosby did have that 100+ pim rookie season and a bunch of dives in there to skew the stats upwards, but the fact remains that he gets benefit of doubt far too often now that he is established.

Giroux's ice time is on the rise with respect to his career, and Talbot knows his value is on PK, not in the box.

[aziz]

i'm just saying, crosby sits for 3 minutes every 4 games. this season, too. 14 PIMs in 20 games. 401 in 432 for his career. that's not a guy for whom the refs are turning a blind eye. yes, he's still a sh|t, and yes i still hate him. with the buck toothed crying to the refs and unrelenting posterchild approach the league and it's media outlets continue to take and that stupid swooping eagle thing he does when he scores a goal. there are real reasons to dislike him, though, and then there are urban legend reasons, and the idea that he doesn't get called for anything is one of those. it just isn't true.

No surprise, Briere didn't get called for stuff until he got to Philly.

also not true. his highest PIM total was 06-07 in buffalo. unless he takes more than 20 minutes in the next two games.

Edited April 5, 2012 by aziz

[terp]

would it suprise you to learn crosby has a higher PIM/game average than briere over his career? his PIM/game rate is more than double giroux's. or that he has more career PIMs than maxime talbot, and in fewer games?

crosby gets the same wide bearth that all (well, most) star players get, it's true, but i think it gets overstated a bit. the idea that he doesn't get called for stuff just isn't true.

The fact that he has higher PIM than one player or another has nothing to do with whether or not he gets away with stuff. This probably doesn't need to be spelled out but, according to one school of thought, Crosby would have an even higher PIM total if he got what he deserved. In the last game, Crosby wasn't called for two flagrant stick fouls. Malkin wasn't called for punching Sean Couturier in the face on two occasions. This is anecdotal evidence that they both get away with more than their fair share. Craig Berube has a pretty good vantage point to collect anecdotal evidence and he doesn't think Crosby or Malkin get what they deserve (and i don't think this is just spin). The fact is that the only evidence available is anecdotal, so dismissing it as untrue is purely opinion not supported by any statistics.

[aziz]

The fact that he has higher PIM than one player or another has nothing to do with whether or not he gets away with stuff.

who doesn't? watch giroux for a shift or two and watch how often he slashes people. count jagr's hooks. how many minutes did schenn get for that crosscheck on crosby? add up the number of crosschecks coburn hands out, or hartnell's punches to the back of guys' heads. it's hockey, if the game were called strictly by the rulebook, every game would be nothing but special teams from start to finish. every shift of every game someone colors outside the lines of the rules, it's a matter of degrees and interpretation the refs have to manage as they decide who sits for what. i mean, good lord, when was the last time you saw scott hartnell take a single shift where he didn't do *something* to *someone* that was technically illegal? he *certainly* does something illegal every game....but zero PIMs in his last two games, and all of 4 minutes in his last 8.

crosby averages 76 penalty minutes per 82 games. how much more do you figure he deserves? my guess is any particular penguins game you watch, you probably point at the TV 4 or 5 times and scream he should sit for something. doing the math on that...you think in a fair world, crosby would pick up 330 or so PIMs? you think he is dirty to a near-record-setting degree?

crosby plays the game in the same way pretty much every not-squeaky-clean player does. he gets his stick into people, takes a shot or two when the ref isn't looking, a facewash now and then. much like giroux, much like ovechkin, much like the majority of the league. he gets away with some, but judging from the numbers, not as often as most. he didn't sit for his shot on schenn, but then schenn didn't sit for his shot on crosby. why are we crying about this? that's how the game goes.

Edited April 5, 2012 by aziz

[peter puck]

who doesn't? watch giroux for a shift or two and watch how often he slashes people. count jagr's hooks. how many minutes did schenn get for that crosscheck on crosby? add up the number of crosschecks coburn hands out, or hartnell's punches to the back of guys' heads. it's hockey, if the game were called strictly by the rulebook, every game would be nothing but special teams from start to finish. every shift of every game someone colors outside the lines of the rules, it's a matter of degrees and interpretation the refs have to manage as they decide who sits for what. i mean, good lord, when was the last time you saw scott hartnell take a single shift where he didn't do *something* to *someone* that was technically illegal? he *certainly* does something illegal every game....but zero PIMs in his last two games, and all of 4 minutes in his last 8.

crosby averages 76 penalty minutes per 82 games. how much more do you figure he deserves? my guess is any particular penguins game you watch, you probably point at the TV 4 or 5 times and scream he should sit for something. doing the math on that...you think in a fair world, crosby would pick up 330 or so PIMs? you think he is dirty to a near-record-setting degree?

crosby plays the game in the same way pretty much every not-squeaky-clean player does. he gets his stick into people, takes a shot or two when the ref isn't looking, a facewash now and then. much like giroux, much like ovechkin, much like the majority of the league. he gets away with some, but judging from the numbers, not as often as most. he didn't sit for his shot on schenn, but then schenn didn't sit for his shot on crosby. why are we crying about this? that's how the game goes.

I'm pretty much with you Aziz but the constant whining to the refs and press from the "best" player in the league is shameless especially when he openly admits and his stats his prove he commits the same infractions. When was the last time you heard or seen G or Ovie act like that?

[aziz]

oh, I agree. he is an annoying little so and so. my point was that there are real reasons to find him annoying... the whining, the diving, the constant Crosby show out of the league and the press... and there are fictional reasons to be annoyed, namely that he gets some kind of free pass. because he really doesn't. no more than anyone else, anyway.

[terp]

crosby plays the game in the same way pretty much every not-squeaky-clean player does. he gets his stick into people, takes a shot or two when the ref isn't looking, a facewash now and then. much like giroux, much like ovechkin, much like the majority of the league. he gets away with some, but judging from the numbers, not as often as most. he didn't sit for his shot on schenn, but then schenn didn't sit for his shot on crosby. why are we crying about this? that's how the game goes.

My point is that his PIM totals don't prove or disprove your point. You seemed to be suggesting that there was statistical support for your view. There isn't, any more than there is for the opposite view.

[B21]

@doom88

<< You're absolutely right about Briere acting like a little *****. One major difference though, is the issue of Briere getting called for his stick infractions (and there are a lot of them). Crosby largely does not. To go further and blame the Flyers for his actions is total garbage. Schenn retaliated against the golden goose, and Couturier against grape ape. >>

Aziz beat me to it. Check out Crosby's PIM vs. Briere. Also, are you saying Vitale's hit on Briere was in retaliation for Schenn's crosscheck? That's a reach. Vitale makes that hit no matter what happened the previous 59 minutes. The Flyers on the ice took offense to a CLEAN HIT and ended up "in over their heads". Nothing that happened there was out of the ordinary at all. Couturier was part of the scrum and got worked over pretty good.

<< By the way, I could have sworn last game, Bylsma was whining about Philly playing dirty and that not being part of Pitts game. I guess it's okay when Pitt sends messages? >>

What message were the Pens sending? The Flyers started that scrum by reacting to a clean hit.

I tried to find Bylsma's comments after that game but everything that comes back is for the most recent game. Could be wrong but I recall his problem being the Pens' responding to the Flyers attempts to get them off their game....the retaliation penalties. I guess you could argue that was indirectly complaining about the Flyers "tactics". Don't recall "message sending" being the issue. Still...nothing quite like Laviolette and Briere's comments.

<< That said, hit on Briere clean, and while classless, Bylsma did nothing wrong by sending a message. It's just frustrating because I know Philly could NEVER get away with that, especially against your scorers. >>

Well....which is it? How can a hit be "clean" and "classless" at the same time? And what exactly did the Pens "get away with"? Crosby took a whack at Schenn. Schenn crosschecked back. Big deal.

Vitale levels Briere with a totally legal hit, the Flyers took offense and "lost" the scrum so to speak.

So tell me...what did the Pens do there that the Flyers "never get away with"? How were the Pens sending a message when the Flyers started that scrum?

[B21]

@doom88

<< No surprise, Briere didn't get called for stuff until he got to Philly. Hartnell said something similar earlier on. >>

Briere was also suspended once for two games while with the Sabres.

[B21]

I'm pretty much with you Aziz but the constant whining to the refs and press from the "best" player in the league is shameless especially when he openly admits and his stats his prove he commits the same infractions. When was the last time you heard or seen G or Ovie act like that?

OV skipped the All-Start Game pretty much in protest of a 3-game suspension he certainly deserved but thought he didn't. OV, as captain, was part of a group of players on the Caps who tuned out their coach resulting in the coach being fired.

And you want to compare that with Crosby? They guy whined too much as an 18 year old rookie and "maybe" the following year. Wow. Tar and feather him. 15 years from now that will still be following him.

Next time Briere or Hartnell get sent to the box for a call they don't like, pay attention and see what they do. I'm sure they are thanking the ref for making such a good call.

Good grief.

[sarsippius]

@B21

@aziz

I'm sure we can agree that some guys in the league get away with more than others, based mostly on reputation? IMO Crosby is in the "some guys" group (Briere too), not the "others".

Plus I just plain don't like him, so screw your logic