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Somebody tried to tell me Malkin wasn't a dirty player.


Guest Irishjim
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But he missed so that one doesn't count.........They were hacking back and forth at one another initially but Malkin definitely tried to catch Giroux not paying attention after they separated....

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He's human, Giroux is a competitive son-of-a-gun and was giving him the business pretty good... I'm sure 28's mouth was running like a duck's *** during that exchange too... This is why I don't fear this team, 71 can be taken out of his game if you skate tightly to/with him and play him physically, he gets frustrated. Same with 58, he wants to be a bad-*** so badly that he'll give you a couple of plays a game where he sacrifices his positioning to make a hit, usually he's able to get away with it because he's such a good skater, the flyers have players with the speed and skill to exploit that.

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But he missed so that one doesn't count.........They were hacking back and forth at one another initially but Malkin definitely tried to catch Giroux not paying attention after they separated....

i was waiting for a reply from B21 :D
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Not sure how even he can rationalize that pure cowardly maneuver......But I am sure he will try......

i doubt it. that was an attempt at a cheap shot by malkin, no questions. he might point out the shot giroux gave malkin 5 seconds earlier, though. malkin's was worse, but both could have been called roughing/unsportsmanlike, and claude's had the advantage of being interference, too.

malkin slashes giroux, giroux slashes malkin, giroux throws a shoulder into malkin away from the play, malkin takes a wild swing at giroux. i'd like to welcome you to the game of hockey. it can be rough.

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@aziz

Yeah, I think watching it several times, it's hard to argue that both players were "at it". It was a back-and-forth, which happens all the time, especially between 2 teams that don't like each other.

But the point to be made is that one really has to look at a pattern. Giroux is not known as a dirty player. Not really. Malkin, on the other hand, has done it many times. He is known for stirring things up, giving players chip shots after the whistle, knee-on-knee hits, and doing other things that would be qualified as "dirty". The same can be said about Ovechkin. They both belong in the category of players who do things you are just not supposed to do, and they do it with regularity that makes people shake their heads in disbelief. But that's life. Things of this nature have always been around... But what annoys me is that in most cases, refs would turn the blind eye to Ovechkin and Crosby (and probably several others). Yet, when it's Carcillo, Steve Ott, Matt Cook, Avery, or Chris Neil, it's an automatic 2-minute minor. Hell, even Pronger, when he was younger, was punished by the leaghue relentlessly.

I just wonder why some players are mor eprotected by the league... Is that because of the star status? If that's the case, that's crap. Look. I am not complaining about a given player being "dirty" per se. But I want to see an equal treatment.

Edited by Mad Dog
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@Mad Dog

i don't disagree with any of that. the only thing i'll say there is that, imo, it is more a question of those "other" players specifically being on a shorter leash with the refs, not malkin being allowed to get away with more. i don't know that that makes it any better, really, but it definitely spins things in a different direction. giroux is less likely to get called for that stuff than carcillo, ott, cooke, avery, or neil, too. it isn't that giroux's a star; it's that those guys have developed a bad reputation. matt carle won't get called for the stuff pronger would, as the in-house example.

edit: you could argue that malkin should have developed that reputation by now, too. and you wouldn't be wrong. i think it takes longer for an elite talent to tarnish his name to the same point as, say, dan carcillo. that said, as i mentioned with crosby, it isn't like malkin never gets called. he has 1 less PIM over his career than he does games. that's a lot of box time for a 100+ point guy.

Edited by aziz
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@flyerrod

<< Not sure how even he can rationalize that pure cowardly maneuver......But I am sure he will try.... :) >>

You rang? :)

Sorry - I just don't feel like working today and this place is entertaining.

In all seriousness, I've never denied Malkin can be a dirty player. What @mojo1917 said is 100% correct about Malkin and my biggest complaint about his game....he'll take the retaliatory penalty almost every time. He's got to learn the skate away. He is easily frustrated with the "extra" physical play that his thrown at him. I'll say "extra" since I've seen him skate circles around the net with a d-man draped all over while hacking away so I can't say physical play in general bugs him. But the big highlight reel hits? Yeah...he doesn't like those. At all.

The video is a perfect example...just skate away. Both players taking whacks...Malkin's being worst of the bunch. But as @aziz said, that's hockey. Not favoritism or intentional bias as many (not you!) think.

@Mad Dog

I think you answered your own question. You are asking why Malkin and OV get away with things that Carcillo, Ott, Avery, Cooke and Neil don't? That's 5 of the worst offenders in the league being compared to 2 of the biggest stars. Absolutely it's preferential treatment for stars. But that's not unique to hockey or any sport for that matter. Sometimes it helps your team and sometimes doesn't. I never had an issue with that philosophy...all major sports have it. Philly fans don't whine when Halladay gets a strike 3 call on a pitch 3" off the plate because he's Roy Halladay. I will take issue when someone singles out the star players on my teams and acts like they are the only stars who get that kind treatment.

@Irishjim

In good fun, a few Flyers fans once told me that Briere and Hartnell are not dirty players, either. And my favorite...Pronger gets a pass because he is a H of F d-man. :rolleyes: Juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust sayin'....

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"Absolutely it's

preferential treatment for stars.

But that's not unique to hockey or

any sport for that matter.

Sometimes it helps your team and

sometimes doesn't. I never had an

issue with that philosophy...all

major sports have it. "

@B21

I think the problem you're going to have with that argument here is this: Lindros, the most gifted athlete ever to suit up for the Flyers was not protected in this manner. And frankly I don't think he or anyone else should have been. The problem is that he wasn't, his career was cut short because of the shots he took (and for not having his head up), while we've had to sit by and watch Gretzky, Lemiuex, Crosby etc be put in a bubble.

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I think the problem you're going to have with that argument here is this: Lindros, the most gifted athlete ever to suit up for the Flyers was not protected in this manner.

you're changing things up, though. the discussion has turned to star players not being called for the penalties they commit. you are now talking about people getting called for doing things to star players. entirely different thing kind of "protection".

and before you go too far in that other direction, keep in mind more penalties were called on the flyers opponents than anyone else in the league, by a large margin.

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I think you answered your own question. You are asking why Malkin and OV get away with things that Carcillo, Ott, Avery, Cooke and Neil don't? That's 5 of the worst offenders in the league being compared to 2 of the biggest stars. Absolutely it's preferential treatment for stars. But that's not unique to hockey or any sport for that matter. Sometimes it helps your team and sometimes doesn't. I never had an issue with that philosophy...all major sports have it. Philly fans don't whine when Halladay gets a strike 3 call on a pitch 3" off the plate because he's Roy Halladay. I will take issue when someone singles out the star players on my teams and acts like they are the only stars who get that kind treatment.

And @aziz.

I get all that. But this doesn't excuse the league for being biased. The rules should be applied to everybody. It's like a law. Is somebody exempt from breaking the law? If Giroux, or Teemu Selanne, or Gaborik, or Stamkos, or Henrik Sedin (all star-caliber & consitently clean players) elbow somebody and get called for it, I would be OK with that too, because they *should* be called. A penalty is a penalty.

And here is another thing. By this very logic, Malkin should be under the league's scrutiny because this is the crap he pulls quite often. He will throw an elbow or do a knee-to-knee stuff in just about every other game. But he hardly ever gets called for that. Yet when Brenden Morrow or Corey Perry, or Ryan Callahan, for example, do that, they will get whistled every single time. Why Malkin cannot be regarded as a repeat offender? Why do refs choose to turn the other way when he does it? Can you please explain?

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and before you go too far in that other direction, keep in mind more penalties were called on the flyers opponents than anyone else in the league, by a large margin.

Yeah I'm not going in that direction at all, that whole discussion has run its course ten times over here

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"Philly fans don't whine when Halladay gets a

strike 3 call on a pitch 3" off the

plate because he's Roy Halladay."

@B21

Reported for bringing up baseball before June

I have to! You think the Pirates will be over .500 in July again?

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@Mad Dog

<< I get all that. But this doesn't excuse the league for being biased. The rules should be applied to everybody. It's like a law. Is somebody exempt from breaking the law? If Giroux, or Teemu Selanne, or Gaborik, or Stamkos, or Henrik Sedin (all star-caliber & consitently clean players) elbow somebody and get called for it, I would be OK with that too, because they *should* be called. A penalty is a penalty. >>

Fair point and I certainly see that side of the argument. I am on the opposite side of that one to a degree but that's neither here nor there. The kind of "bias" you refer to here I won't at all disagree with either. It exists...period. It's a different kind of bias than arguing that the league singles out a specific team for preferential treatment or the league singles out star player X for preference versus star player Y. Take the Malkin non-suspension. Stamkos, the Sedins, Giroux, OV, Gaborik, Selanne, Datsyuk, Zetterberg...maybe even Hartnell now (gasp!)...none of them are getting a 1-game suspension in the SCF for that.

<< And here is another thing. By this very logic, Malkin should be under the league's scrutiny because this is the crap he pulls quite often. He will throw an elbow or do a knee-to-knee stuff in just about every other game. But he hardly ever gets called for that. Yet when Brenden Morrow or Corey Perry, or Ryan Callahan, for example, do that, they will get whistled every single time. Why Malkin cannot be regarded as a repeat offender? Why do refs choose to turn the other way when he does it? Can you please explain? >>

Well for starters, it's Malkin who missed half a season with a torn ACL and he certainly is not looking to go knee to knee every other game....that much I do know. So how do you know Morrow, Perry and Callahan get called for those every time? That's a lot of hockey to watch....late night hockey, too. Other than searching the Web for clips or comments about hits/elbows/kneeing that those guys might have gotten away with (I did a little), all I can point to are the penalties.

Perry has 41 minors in 80 games...

Malkin has 34 in 75 (thats one less in 75 games than the guy I pick on the most, Steve Downie)...

Morrow has 36 in 57...

Callahan has 23 in 76..

Does that strike you as unfair?

Of that bunch only Corey Perry has ever been suspended...and for elbowing Giroux in the head back in 2009 no less (another dent in the Flyers aren't protected armor).

Callahan escaped a suspesion for a blindside hit to the head of Franz Nielson on the Islanders (where you at, Tortsie???).

Morrow has avoided suspension despite being called for an instigator penalty in the final 5:00 of a regular season game against The Kings. Sound familiar?

A quick Google search finds fans complaining about a Morrow slew on Peca.

Here's a link to a HF Boards thread on under the radar "dirty/cheap" players. It's older (2008) but still....Mike Richards, Morrow, Perry, Getzlaf, Briere.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=561797&page=8

I can't sit here and give you a ton specific instances in games where Perry didn't get away with this or Morrow didn't get away with that. But there is enough here for me to say with relative certainty that Malkin does not get away with more or less than other players with comparable styles and/or skill sets.

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@sarsippius

<< I think the problem you're going to have with that argument here is this: Lindros, the most gifted athlete ever to suit up for the Flyers was not protected in this manner. And frankly I don't think he or anyone else should have been. The problem is that he wasn't, his career was cut short because of the shots he took (and for not having his head up), while we've had to sit by and watch Gretzky, Lemiuex, Crosby etc be put in a bubble. >>

The only arguments I can make there (admittedly weak ones) is that Lindros' prime was before the league started taking shots to the head as seriously as they do now and because he was so big and played so big (Lemieux was only about 10-15 lbs lighter but didn't play big) he was not going to get the same level of protection as more finesse players. Fair? No. But Lindros was no angel, either.

Careful with the "career ending" angle, too. Crosby could be a hit away from being the next Lindros.

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i doubt it. that was an attempt at a cheap shot by malkin, no questions. he might point out the shot giroux gave malkin 5 seconds earlier, though. malkin's was worse, but both could have been called roughing/unsportsmanlike, and claude's had the advantage of being interference, too.

malkin slashes giroux, giroux slashes malkin, giroux throws a shoulder into malkin away from the play, malkin takes a wild swing at giroux. i'd like to welcome you to the game of hockey. it can be rough.

I am guessing you did not read or skipped my first post in this thread....... ;)

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