Proposal Mtl - Flyers trade proposal

[hf101]

I think *this demonstrates that Courturier will be a franchise player.

"This team can always score goals," said Jagr, who gave Philadelphia its first lead in regulation in the series midway through the third period. "We've got a lot of guys who can score goals."

Including the 19-year-old Couturier. Assigned to slow down Pittsburgh's Evgeni Malkin, Couturier outscored the Russian instead for the first hat trick by a Philadelphia rookie since Andy Delmore in 2000.

Couturier admitted to feeling some jitters before the series opener. Funny, he hardly looked nervous when his third goal of the night sewed it up with 1:49 remaining before Giroux's empty-netter completed the scoring.

"He's 19, but he plays like he's 28," Giroux said.

[jammer2]

@Brandon Defoy Wow, 7 posts in and you are declaring yourself a hockey God....LOL! Let me tell you something fella, Couturier is WAY better than Subban....it's not even close. Time will prove me right. Couts will be a star, would not be surprised to see him score 50 goals in 3 or 4 years...he's that good. Subban is a punk, there is a reason he has no respect in this league, he does not respect others. Shame on you for even mentioning Chelios and Subban in the same sentence. Ya know, I predicted several Norris trophies for Subban when I first saw him at the world juniors, I was *that* impressed with him. Electric skater, wicked moves....but I have recanted since predicting a Norris for him, he's outright selfish, I think the Habs will grow tired of his ego and deal him, get him out of town before everybody finds out how much of a tool that kid is.

Maybe you and Subban can get together and run a seminar on how to win friends and influence people...a perfect match! Subban has all the skills but no smarts. I saw him preform some of the most horrid defensive gaffes in the history of the league last year....for every outstanding move, there was a boneheaded move that actually defied logic....you see none of the from Couts, solid pk guy from the very start of his career, shutting down guys that have been in the league for 7-8 years with no problem. Subban is not even in his class, could not carry his jockstrap!! You need to study some film and find out what a real player does, regardless of position.

[yave1964]

Okay, Subban watched his plus/minus go up this year, admirable on such a bad team. Other than that, his numbers were down, goals, power play goals, points, shooting percentage was a very, very unaceptable .34, half of the year before. He played big minutes because the team had nobody else but really had to be considered a bit of a step backwards year. No shame there, lots of players suffer the sophmore slump and he will likely bounce back some.

Right now he has Price behind him to cover up his youthful defensive lapses.With Bryz who is not in Prices class and is wretched at puck handling the D-men have to play deeper in their own end, Subban would be required to be more of a defensive force at the sacrifice of offense and I doubt he would put up huge numbers in Philly.

Not saying Couturier is Crosby, Hell I am a wings fan and pretty impartial but he is on my short list of young forwards who I would love to see wearing the winged wheel. As a 19 year old rookie on a veteran team he made himself noticed, can play shorthanded and even strength, will develop as his skinny frame fills out. Top six forward for a decade is in his future, I wouldnt trade him even up for Subban, I think subbans frame looks like someone who will put on weight at mid career and will slow down. Just sayin.

[Podein25]

Maybe you and Subban can get together and run a seminar on how to win friends and influence people.

LMAO!

Face it @jammer2, Habs fans are smarter than us knuckle-dragger Flyer fans.

These are the same fans that booed Briere simply for choosing to sign with another team, oblivious to the irony of it all, obvious to everyone else, that Briere wouldn't go to MTL for all the tea in China because of the bloody fans. Whoa!

[Brandon Defoy]

@Brandon Defoy Wow, 7 posts in and you are declaring yourself a hockey God....LOL! Let me tell you something fella, Couturier is WAY better than Subban....it's not even close. Time will prove me right. Couts will be a star, would not be surprised to see him score 50 goals in 3 or 4 years...he's that good. Subban is a punk, there is a reason he has no respect in this league, he does not respect others. Shame on you for even mentioning Chelios and Subban in the same sentence. Ya know, I predicted several Norris trophies for Subban when I first saw him at the world juniors, I was *that* impressed with him. Electric skater, wicked moves....but I have recanted since predicting a Norris for him, he's outright selfish, I think the Habs will grow tired of his ego and deal him, get him out of town before everybody finds out how much of a tool that kid is.

Maybe you and Subban can get together and run a seminar on how to win friends and influence people...a perfect match! Subban has all the skills but no smarts. I saw him preform some of the most horrid defensive gaffes in the history of the league last year....for every outstanding move, there was a boneheaded move that actually defied logic....you see none of the from Couts, solid pk guy from the very start of his career, shutting down guys that have been in the league for 7-8 years with no problem. Subban is not even in his class, could not carry his jockstrap!! You need to study some film and find out what a real player does, regardless of position.

Okay, Subban watched his plus/minus go up this year, admirable on such a bad team. Other than that, his numbers were down, goals, power play goals, points, shooting percentage was a very, very unaceptable .34, half of the year before. He played big minutes because the team had nobody else but really had to be considered a bit of a step backwards year. No shame there, lots of players suffer the sophmore slump and he will likely bounce back some.

Right now he has Price behind him to cover up his youthful defensive lapses.With Bryz who is not in Prices class and is wretched at puck handling the D-men have to play deeper in their own end, Subban would be required to be more of a defensive force at the sacrifice of offense and I doubt he would put up huge numbers in Philly.

Not saying Couturier is Crosby, Hell I am a wings fan and pretty impartial but he is on my short list of young forwards who I would love to see wearing the winged wheel. As a 19 year old rookie on a veteran team he made himself noticed, can play shorthanded and even strength, will develop as his skinny frame fills out. Top six forward for a decade is in his future, I wouldnt trade him even up for Subban, I think subbans frame looks like someone who will put on weight at mid career and will slow down. Just sayin.

omg. Ofcourse coots doesnt make that much mistakes. he doesnt play on the top line with the whole team pressure on his shoulders. he doesnt play 27 min per match. when coots plays on the 1st PP and on the first line over giroux then MAYBE we will start comparing him to Subban but before that he can stay on his little 4th line and play with absolutely no pressure like any other player would do. All you see of Subban is his mistakes lolll ofcourse hes going to make mistakes the guy plays on the first line and plays 27min per match.... hes only 23 yrs old and thats amazingly young for a defensemen ! if you would actually know your hockey you would know that it can take up to 27 yrs old for an amazing defencemen to be at his peek. and yes i will use Subban and Chelios easily in the same sentence. you talking about all this little rucus ... Habs are Horrible... If couturier was in the habs hed prob make 10x more mistakes because hed prob be playing on the 2nd line. Don't go judging a player for the teams failures.... Subban is the only 1st liner defencemen we got.. you think Diaz Emelin weber are good for his development ????.. the day couturier carries the team on his shoulders then ill maybe consider him as valuable but before that please stop with this pointless talk...

[hf101]

These are the same fans that booed Briere simply for choosing to sign with another team, oblivious to the irony of it all, obvious to everyone else, that Briere wouldn't go to MTL for all the tea in China because of the bloody fans. Whoa!

Could it also be that Briere didn't want to sign in Montreal because he wanted to have his children attend school in the US?

[jammer2]

@Brandon Defoy You need to stop blaming Subban's horrid defensive play on the crappy Habs. It was *him* making COUNTLESS bad pinches from the point, not his teammates. It was P.K giving the puck away right on the stick of an opponent COUNTLESS times. Yeah, defensemen take longer to develop, I realize that, he is super skilled, I realize that....but you absolve him of all his brutal lapses in judgement based on the crappy team he is on...that is wrong. His ego dictates he has to be the star....totally void of his responsibilities to his teammates. His ego is to big and even though he has been warned by COUNTLESS veterans of the league, he refuses to tone it down......waaaait a minute...are you P.K???

Bottom line, we have to much talent for Couturier to be playing on the top line. When he is 23, he will be TWICE the player P.K is ...really, a hockey savvy guy like you is going to compare a 19 year old rookie to a 23 year old....wow....just....wow.

P.K giveth, and P.K taketh away....Sean just gives

[Podein25]

Could it also be that Briere didn't want to sign in Montreal because he wanted to have his children attend school in the US?

What, where they get shot?

jk

[yave1964]

Ummm, listen dude, I am a bit of a pacifist in here, (Unless someone rips on Kronwall, lol) and not trying to pick a fight, believe, me, I dont troll, but LEAD??? REALLY??? Where has Subban led Montreal? Pretty sure they coulda finished last just as easily without him. When Subban leads his team on a deep playoff run, come talk. Doubt its gonna happen, certain it wont happen while he plays on the Habs,

Now again, not ripping him, top four d-man who slipped last year, but again no shame in a sophmore slump. I really dont see much more growth, unlike Couturier who is only 19, I bring up the age because you keep stressing Subban being 23. Kind of think this is going in circles, good luck with your Canadiens this year. I still cant believe they ran Cunnyworth out for not being a Franco.

[jammer2]

@yave1964 Struggling to keep it semi-friendly, but this guys arrogance is just off the charts....LOL!

[hf101]

@Podein25

...... just a suggestion.....I don't know all the reasons behind the decision, but I doubt the fans of Montreal were the main reason

[jammer2]

@hf101 I honestly think it was a combination of the Montreal fans and media. Hockey really is a religion there, the pressure is ENORMOUS. Danny didn't want him and his family living under that kind of microscope.

[hf101]

@hf101 I honestly think it was a combination of the Montreal fans and media. Hockey really is a religion there, the pressure is ENORMOUS. Danny didn't want him and his family living under that kind of microscope.

ok. but I doubt he would admit to that.

Here is the best reason to keep Subban in Montreal.......

“There’s no question that people know that I enjoy playing (in Montreal),” Subban told NHL.com on Monday during a visit at Laylor Performance Systems, where he trains in the summer. “I grew up a Montreal Canadiens fan. I love playing there and I want to play there for the rest of my career.”

[Podein25]

but I doubt the fans of Montreal were the main reason

Dude, help a brother out, I'm trying to inflame the Habs fans with trash talk.

But honestly, Breire said that (re: schools)? And you believe him huh?

Now THAT's funny.

[hf101]

@Podein25

But honestly, Breire said that (re: schools)? And you believe him huh?

Now THAT's funny.

........there is a lot of pressure on kids in school these days

[yave1964]

It was worse in Quebec with the Nordiques, quebec had the famous case with Lindros not wanting to play there, Montreal has a few as well, plus how many free agents do they whiff on who use other excuses than not wanting to go to Montreal. Brierre isnt the last or the first.

I dont know what the answer is for the Habs. Price is a flat out stud (but a bit abrassive and a bit of a jerk from what I have read) and has a huge trade value, could get a Pavelski, demers and Niemi type of return at least, but it would be like trading Roy all over again. The fans would lose their minds.... Subban is good, top four good with upside but also a bit of an egomaniac, He could bring a player or two but he is not as good as Habs fans think he is because everyone else is so bad. A few good forwards but not enough. They will be a lottery team for a few years, seem to lack direction and hope. Dont see an end in sight short of trading Price and blowing up the roster and starting over, and these knowledgable fans deserve better.

[Brandon Defoy]

It was worse in Quebec with the Nordiques, quebec had the famous case with Lindros not wanting to play there, Montreal has a few as well, plus how many free agents do they whiff on who use other excuses than not wanting to go to Montreal. Brierre isnt the last or the first.

I dont know what the answer is for the Habs. Price is a flat out stud (but a bit abrassive and a bit of a jerk from what I have read) and has a huge trade value, could get a Pavelski, demers and Niemi type of return at least, but it would be like trading Roy all over again. The fans would lose their minds.... Subban is good, top four good with upside but also a bit of an egomaniac, He could bring a player or two but he is not as good as Habs fans think he is because everyone else is so bad. A few good forwards but not enough. They will be a lottery team for a few years, seem to lack direction and hope. Dont see an end in sight short of trading Price and blowing up the roster and starting over, and these knowledgable fans deserve better.

Ummm, listen dude, I am a bit of a pacifist in here, (Unless someone rips on Kronwall, lol) and not trying to pick a fight, believe, me, I dont troll, but LEAD??? REALLY??? Where has Subban led Montreal? Pretty sure they coulda finished last just as easily without him. When Subban leads his team on a deep playoff run, come talk. Doubt its gonna happen, certain it wont happen while he plays on the Habs,

Now again, not ripping him, top four d-man who slipped last year, but again no shame in a sophmore slump. I really dont see much more growth, unlike Couturier who is only 19, I bring up the age because you keep stressing Subban being 23. Kind of think this is going in circles, good luck with your Canadiens this year. I still cant believe they ran Cunnyworth out for not being a Franco.

Ummm, listen dude, I am a bit of a pacifist in here, (Unless someone rips on Kronwall, lol) and not trying to pick a fight, believe, me, I dont troll, but LEAD??? REALLY??? Where has Subban led Montreal? Pretty sure they coulda finished last just as easily without him. When Subban leads his team on a deep playoff run, come talk. Doubt its gonna happen, certain it wont happen while he plays on the Habs,

Now again, not ripping him, top four d-man who slipped last year, but again no shame in a sophmore slump. I really dont see much more growth, unlike Couturier who is only 19, I bring up the age because you keep stressing Subban being 23. Kind of think this is going in circles, good luck with your Canadiens this year. I still cant believe they ran Cunnyworth out for not being a Franco.

wowwwwwwww Subban was the only 1st line defensemen on the team!!!!!! u expect him to be a the most phenominal defensemen in the history of hockey at 23 yrs old??? buddy you don't even know what your saying.... talking about we fired cunneyworth because hes not french LOLLL. we fired him because he never been coach his whole life and Therrien is MUCH better!! and just for saying ''you dont see any growth in subban'' makes me not even want to respond to your ignorant comments anymore.. Couturier hasnt proven jack yet!!! Hes playing with the best offensive team in the NHL, ofcourse the guy is going to look good playing on the 4th line... even if hes 19 and he has PLENTY of potential.. he still needs to PROVE he can go as high as all of you bias flyers fans say he will. what in the hell do you think subban will do with the flyers if he was there?? hed prob end up with a +/- of +40 and 40 assists 20 goals...

your saying that Subban makes mistakes but you keep ignoring the fact that he has one of the most shittiest teams infront of him with no coach no good veterans and no guidelines from above.. any player in the NHL even the best defensemen in the world would end up being viewed horrible with a team like the habs. No player was giving any emotion for winning in this team... everything was falling apart. How do you want a player to look good if his whole team is disorganized and playing like they dont even care... Anyways im not going to argue with you people. if you think your precious Couturier is worth more then think what u want but please don't start commenting on my post if your going to give me these horrible reasons

[habsguy26]

@jammer2

I do think you're being a tad harsh on Subban. As the new Habs fan pointed out (Welcome on board by the way), Subban plays with the incredible pressure of being Montreal's top defender night in and night out. You must not have watched a lot of Habs' games last season, because I watched every single one and I can tell you, Subban didn't make as many mistakes as you make it out to be. You're making it out like Subban is all flash and no defensive awareness at all. Its true, he made a few defensive gaffs last season, but can you name me 1 defender that had none of them? Nope. Even Bobby Orr, Scott Stevens, Pronger, Niedermayer, Lidstrom, Eddie Shore, Chelios, Rafalski, Leetch and Bourque made mistakes. Not saying Subban is going to be as good as them but c'mon? Plus I kinda think you're over valuing Coots right now.. I agree that some day Coots will be a 30-40 goal scorer, whether it be with Philly or not, the kid will be good. But as Brandon pointed out, he was playing a 3rd line defensive role, with little to no pressure to perform offensively. While semi-proven to be a valuable checking line centre, Coots still has to wait before being in the same category as Subban. Yes, Coots is younger, but look at guys like Selanne, Bure, Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Stamkos, (able to put up high scoring numbers at a very young age) and maybe more realistically, a guy like Tyler Seguin, who was put in a 3rd line role similar to Coot's at a young age but was still able to perform very well offensively. Subban is only 23 years old and defenders often hit their strides around 28-30. But, when it comes to RAW talent, Subban edges him out. He has brilliant skating ability, passing is top notch, shot is great and he can hit. Defensive positioning could be better, but he's definitely not as atrocious and you make him seem. I like both players but in the long run I'd rather have Subban. I don't wanna start a war of words here but its just my honest opinion!

BTW, a returning Markov will help Subban. Look for him to bounce back with 45-50 points.

I do think Couturier will be a great player, but in terms of potential Subban edges out Coots.

Again, not trying to start a little war here but Subban > Couturier...

Edited August 14, 2012 by habsguy26

[jammer2]

@habsguy26 To each his own....Couts >> Subban....not even close in terms of potential. You guys *DO* realize this is a 19 year old kid we are talking about....right???? Funny, not a mention of how much of a tool Subban is on the ice, that's a big part of this, and the main reason he won't be a Hab forever. He'll get dealt and you guys will be off this Subban is great deal. I guess Subban only played bad against the Leafs, cause I saw every one of those games and they made him look normal...the Leafs....HA HA!!

[OzFlyer]

Still no contract for Subban? I wonder why??

[yave1964]

Again, not saying Subban is bad, just saying he is a tad overrated. Statistics show that he slipped some last year, not a lot but a bit of a sophmore slump. And I am not a Flyer fan. Long term, 19 year old Couterier is gonna have a nicer career than Subban, IMO, thats all. That said, I would stil love, LOVE to see Holland sign Subban to an offer sheet. Not saying Subban is Campoli for Gods sake.....

[habsguy26]

@jammer2 You're right, because in terms of potential its not even close, Subban wins, All Subban needs to do is get his head out of where the sun doesn't shine and focus on hockey. There's no denying it, Subban has NO ceiling. Couturier does. His ceiling is a 2nd line center, as long as Giroux stays in Philly, and preeeeetty sure Giroux will NOT be forced out by Coots.

[Podein25]

@habsguy26

Let me try and put this a different way.

Let's say I wanted to win a Stanley Cup and had to pick one of Subban or Cooter to help me, all else being equal?

I would take Cooter. And you would take Subban?

Ok then.

[Bertmega]

@Polaris922

That would never happen because Holmgren would never let him reach RFA status. That was Nashville dropping the ball not the Flyers being bullies to some poor little small market team.

[habsguy26]

@habsguy26

Let me try and put this a different way.

Let's say I wanted to win a Stanley Cup and had to pick one of Subban or Cooter to help me, all else being equal?

I would take Cooter. And you would take Subban?

Ok then.

That means nothing.. If I were Philidelphia, right now, I'd rather have Subban. Your D is incapacitated to the point Carlo Coliacavo (sorry for butchering your last name, Carlo) would help you out.