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Mtl - Flyers trade proposal


Guest Brandon Defoy
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If I were Holmgren I wouldn't make that trade. Couturier is far to valuable.

I find it odd that if Subban being so valuable, why Montreal would offer him in a trade. IMO if Holmgren really wanted Subban why not just throw an offer sheet to him?

Btw, welcome to the site.

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If I were Holmgren I wouldn't make that trade. Couturier is far to valuable.

I find it odd that if Subban being so valuable, why Montreal would offer him in a trade. IMO if Holmgren really wanted Subban why not just throw an offer sheet to him?

Btw, welcome to the site.

Montreal has already said they'd match any offer sheet unless it was obnoxiously overpriced. And I think Holmgren has to worry about teams returning the favor with Flyer RFA's at some point. I'd love to see G reach status and Nashville return the favor, but I doubt it'll happen!

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i'am surprised. If i was flyers i'd do this trade in a heartbeat! #1 reason: Flyers absolutely need a Defensemen especially a future superstar one. #2, Couturier hasn't proved anything yet and Simmonds did nothing more than 49 points in the whole 4 years of his career. Not to be picky on Simmonds but after 4 full seasons in the NHL, playing with the flyers on their second line and 1st powerplay wave. 49 points is far from being good IMO. Subban will definitely bring more to a team than Couturier or Simmonds would.

on top of this, to be generous I added a high ranked prospect coming up in Danny Kristo to help Flyers offence in the future since they giving up a decent winger and future very good prospect.

The only reason i proposed this trade was because Mtl have high depth of defensemen coming up in the near future and i know for a fact that next year they will barely make playoffs. That being said, Couturier is a type of player they have a huge lack of in Mtl. so they might aswell trade Subban for a very good prospect since they are in rebuild mode and get some Elements they lack of on their team.

Would absolutely benefit flyers because of the lack of first line defensemen.

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Couturier hasn't proved anything yet

Only someone who hasn't seen him play could say that with a straight face.

He proved on the very first shift that he could play with men. Then he played almost the entire year in a 3rd line checking role, finishing plus 18 on a team that had Bryzgalov as their starter. He was a regular on the PK and was often dangerous on the counterattack.

When he did get the chance to play more top 6 minutes he put points up and generated scoring chances aplenty. The only part of his game that needed improving was faceoffs.

Oh yeah, he's 19 years old!

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Only someone who hasn't seen him play could say that with a straight face.

He proved on the very first shift that he could play with men. Then he played almost the entire year in a 3rd line checking role, finishing plus 18 on a team that had Bryzgalov as their starter. He was a regular on the PK and was often dangerous on the counterattack.

When he did get the chance to play more top 6 minutes he put points up and generated scoring chances aplenty. The only part of his game that needed improving was faceoffs.

Oh yeah, he's 19 years old!

I agree Couturier had a good year and shows promise, but I wouldn't call him a proven commodity yet. Regardless, I wouldn't want Subban anyway, let alone at that price. I agree with you, keep Couturier and see what he becomes.
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Only someone who hasn't seen him play could say that with a straight face.

He proved on the very first shift that he could play with men. Then he played almost the entire year in a 3rd line checking role, finishing plus 18 on a team that had Bryzgalov as their starter. He was a regular on the PK and was often dangerous on the counterattack.

When he did get the chance to play more top 6 minutes he put points up and generated scoring chances aplenty. The only part of his game that needed improving was faceoffs.

Oh yeah, he's 19 years old!

Subban showed he can carry a whole team on his shoulders playing over 27min per match. Subban is worth more than couturier. Even if Couturier is 19. Subban is Franchise type defensemen that will always be playing on the first line, first PP and even on the first PK. A defencemen that can go end to end threw a whole team with very high speed and amazing puck handling is extremely rare. He also has an amazing wrist and slap shot, on top of it he hits like a horse and he gets under players skin, getting them pissed and out of their game. All of these aspects makes him allstar material in the near future.

Couturier on the other hand, is and will be a very very good 2nd liner playing on the PK. Bringing an amazing physical 2 way game with great talent to a team. will he be franchise material? play on the first PP everytime? or play over 25min per match? i'm not sure...

the only reason why i would give Subban for Couturier+ is because we have a lot of depth in defense. Maybe not as affective as Subban but still some high quality defensemen coming up.

We also lack of Big Centermen in mtl so that would fill in one of our biggest needs. Philly have a lack of 1st line defensemen right now so it would really be amazing for them to have Subban.

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@Brandon Defoy

It's a fair point: we need D-men you need a big centre. But I still wouldn't make that trade straight up and I'm not as put-off my Subban's personality/attitude as some are. I just think that when you have a player like Couturier who is mature beyond his years, you keep him.

So yeah, I DO think Cooter is a franchise centreman. He will eventually be a first PP unit guy. He just happened to be our best defensive centre last year so he had to play that role. I don't see him stuck in that role though.

Edited by Podein25
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I agree Couturier had a good year and shows promise, but I wouldn't call him a proven commodity yet.

Maybe a case of semantics. Every first year player proves something. For many, it's that they aren't ready to play with men. Cooter proved that he can. He proved lots already, but has more to prove. As always.

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Let me make it clear, Subban is not bad, but I feel he is overrated for the following reasons....

He plays for Montreal, and the team is so, so bad that good players stand out.

He is a very visible minority with a great personality

He toots his own horn.

Outside looking in, I think he is a top four with potential to be a top pair d-man with a good team but is not there yet, still has a lot of growth in his game before he gets there. Simmonds yeah. Couturier no way. Both, insane.

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@Brandon Defoy

I really like Subbans size and skill level. What i don't like is his brain and attitude. I'd love to see what he could do in Philly, but not at the expense of Couturier.

his brain and attitude is what makes him more valuable.. its because of that, that hes a unique defensemen. He gets under players skins making them mad and lose their game concentration. Do you know how much that helps a team? when you got all the players after that one defensemen. it opens up the game for all of your teamates. a bit like Chris Chelios in his years when he used to play for the montreal canadiens. The only person that would say no to this trade is Marc Bergevin.. who would trade a Chris Chelios for Jordan Staal if they had a 3yr difference?.. No one!

So honestly if your willing to keep Sean Couturier over Subban its basically because you overrate Couturier way too much or you just have no Hockey knowledge, because any GM in the National Hockey league would take Subban wayyyyyyy before Couturier. Philly would need to easily add another prospect or something decent. But hey if you think Sean Couturier will become another Malkin or Stamkos caliber player go for it lolll but im telling you now the way your rating him is wayyyy too high.

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Let me make it clear, Subban is not bad, but I feel he is overrated for the following reasons....

He plays for Montreal, and the team is so, so bad that good players stand out.

He is a very visible minority with a great personality

He toots his own horn.

Outside looking in, I think he is a top four with potential to be a top pair d-man with a good team but is not there yet, still has a lot of growth in his game before he gets there. Simmonds yeah. Couturier no way. Both, insane.

first of all most of all the greatest defensemen started reaching their peek hockey point at the age of 27. its always longer for a defensemen to reach his prime then a forward. 2nd of all your ABSOLUTELY wrong about him standing out because our team is bad?... its extremely horrible for a defensemen playing with a horrible team because it makes HIM look BAD.. Lets say we switch, Cooter plays for Habs and Subban plays for philly. You think cooter will look good playing for the habs like he does with philly LOL ? be honest? on the other Hand Subban would look 3x better playing for philly because of their amazing offense and he has that Philly attitude pissing players off making them lose their game concentration. If we switch the roles around, NEVER would ANYBODY in philly wanna trade Subban for Sean Couturier.. Now if Cooter was playing with us he would have still be playing in the Junior league. So basically its totally the other way around. You overrate Cooter because hes playing in a MUCH better team where they can easily take the oppertunity to bring a young player up to play with Talbot and other VERY good veterans to make him look ALOT better then what he really is. But again im not saying he isnt good all im saying is that Subban is more important for a team then Cooter is. Cooter isnt a Malkin, Stamkos or Weber caliber and i doubt he ever will be. But Subban can easily reach that caliber in his prime. Cooter will be one extremely good player but i doubt he will become allstar or as Affective as Subban..

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@Brandon Defoy

Wow. I agree with one or two of your points, but the rest your posts made me forget exactly what those were....How is it that Couturier would still be in juniors if he was drafted by a marginal Hab team, but he earned a spot on a Flyers squad that is loaded with offensive talent?

Also @yave1964 is a Wings fan, so he doesn't have a dog in this fight and his opinion is probably a bit more objective than a Flyers or a Habs fan.

I think you may want to check yourself before you go telling people things like this:

"So honestly if your willing to keep Sean Couturier over Subban its basically because you overrate Couturier way too much or you just have no Hockey knowledge, because any GM in the National Hockey league would take Subban wayyyyyyy before Couturier."

Have you polled the other GMs in the league on this? Could it be that, perchance, it is you who overrate Subban? If anyone with any hockey knowledge would take Subban over Couturier, why do you want Couturier for Subban? Finally, you may want to know who you're talking to before you declare yourself smarter than everyone else in the room.

In other words, settle down Beavis.

Peace

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@Brandon Defoy

Wow. I agree with one or two of your points, but the rest your posts made me forget exactly what those were....How is it that Couturier would still be in juniors if he was drafted by a marginal Hab team, but he earned a spot on a Flyers squad that is loaded with offensive talent?

Also @yave1964 is a Wings fan, so he doesn't have a dog in this fight and his opinion is probably a bit more objective than a Flyers or a Habs fan.

I think you may want to check yourself before you go telling people things like this:

"So honestly if your willing to keep Sean Couturier over Subban its basically because you overrate Couturier way too much or you just have no Hockey knowledge, because any GM in the National Hockey league would take Subban wayyyyyyy before Couturier."

Have you polled the other GMs in the league on this? Could it be that, perchance, it is you who overrate Subban? If anyone with any hockey knowledge would take Subban over Couturier, why do you want Couturier for Subban? Finally, you may want to know who you're talking to before you declare yourself smarter than everyone else in the room.

In other words, settle down Beavis.

Peace

I'd never give Subban for only Cooter lolll u nuts? Flyers would need to give something extra with cooter for Subban. Youre a flyers fan and it shows... youre rating Cooter as if he would be a Malkin or Stamkos caliber player which is far from happening. the comparison is like saying that Jordan Staal is more valuable than Drew Doughty. ANY GM in the NHL would take Drew Doughty before Jordan Staal and if you do not agree with this then i shouldnt even argue anymore because theres absolutely no point lolll. And yes Couturier would be playing in the American league if he was with Habs. Habs would make sure his development wouldnt screw up like a lot of their other players did. Its easier to develop a young prospect when hes got good veterans around him like Talbot, Hartnell, Briere... Habs are far from having those types a players on the team. Flyers took a chance and since hes been playing with Vets that bring him alot of tools to his game he ended up being very good for his age in the NHL.. Still doesnt mean, hes going to be a franchise player and it still dont make him more valuable than Subban. Put Subban in the flyers and watch what he will do.. Trust me with a team like flyers, Subban is going to look like Chris Chelios in his prime years! loll

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